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1850 - Possible water pump issue - diagnosis opinion requested
http://forum.triumphdolomite.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=36605
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Author:  matt of the vivas [Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1850 - Possible water pump issue - diagnosis opinion requested

Also, torque setting, what did you use?
Original setting was 45-50 lbft, this was revised to 55 lbft.
I go to 60 lbft but ONLY if the studs are brand new and uncorroded. Again, choice is yours... But I've not had an 1850 blow again after using this setting.

Author:  Mad Mart [Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1850 - Possible water pump issue - diagnosis opinion requested

I agree with Matt on the tightening sequence, studs first then bolts. Not sure I agree with retorquing so often but it doesn't hurt.

Robsport sell Payen head gaskets for Sprints, not sure about the 1850 though, you'll need to phone them.

Author:  Carledo [Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1850 - Possible water pump issue - diagnosis opinion requested

It's also possible with this engine, as it is with the Stag, to take too much off the head when skimming it. Because of the angled studs, a point is quickly reached where the head won't tighten down completely because the stud holes are displaced too far from optimal.

Steve

Author:  Dunhookin [Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1850 - Possible water pump issue - diagnosis opinion requested

Update

Whilst the motor is out and partially stripped, I thought it a good plan to put a straight edge across the top of the engine block - glad I did, it is clearly not flat! Light under the straight edge was readily visible over probably 4 or more inches, which coincides with the area that oil was getting past the HG. I didn't even need to use a light source to see the gap - natural light was enough.

Just to ensure my eyes weren't deceiving me - I asked 2 other people to check it. I will now strip out the pistons, rods and crankshaft, send the block to the machine shop for the face of the block to be planed flat. Whilst it's there, I'll get the bores honed. The job list keeps getting longer!

Anybody else encountered this problem before?

Author:  Mad Mart [Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1850 - Possible water pump issue - diagnosis opinion requested

Yep, I had to do the same on the last engine I rebuilt (or was it the one before?), anyway, I usually check it and/or get the m/c shop to check it. Apologies for not picking up on that point. :oops:

Author:  Dunhookin [Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1850 - Possible water pump issue - diagnosis opinion requested

No apologies necessary Mart - you've been really helpful - thank you.

I stripped the bottom end of the engine out yesterday - things happen for a reason don't they? Finding that the mating face of the block was not flat, meant getting the block ready for the machine shop to plane the surface flat.

In doing that, I found that Nos 1 and 3 pistons had broken compression rings - clean break in both cases, no bore damage. Also that No4 big end shell bearings were both deeply scored, probably by a bit of grit. The crank journal will hopefully polish ok within tolerance. All other bearings and journals are fine.

Waiting now on the word - whether the crank will need a re-grind and whether the block is cracked. I don't believe it is and if not, it will be chemically cleaned, the bores honed and the mating face planed. I've asked that they note how much they remove to get it flat.

Another parts spend beckons now for a full set of standard pistons rings and +20 big end bearings, plus various gaskets, water hoses etc etc - the expenditure debit column knows no end with this car. Bulletin ends - for now - there will be more!

Thank you again to all contributors for your help - much appreciated fellas.

Author:  soe8m [Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1850 - Possible water pump issue - diagnosis opinion requested

Check the camshaft bore also. Skimming a warped head like you say it is can have camshaft trouble afterwards. Your deck is staright again but the cam journals are way off then.

Jeroen

Author:  Dunhookin [Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1850 - Possible water pump issue - diagnosis opinion requested

Thanks Soe

Can any of you guys help with the markings on 1850 piston crowns? My engine has standard pistons - there are 2 x direction arrows stamped on the crowns of all 4 pistons.

One arrow on the circumference is a conventional arrow - which I initially took to mean that it pointed to the front of the engine. However, near the middle of the crown, is another marking, this is just the tip of an arrowhead with the letter F - which could also mean front.

The rub is the 2 arrows are pointing in opposite directions in each case...! Can anyone please confirm which one means front?

With thanks and best regards

Author:  Dunhookin [Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1850 - Possible water pump issue - now the block is duff

I'm starting to hate the word Dolomite...! Grim news from the engine machine shop where I took my 1850 block and crankshaft. The latter is fine, it just needs a re-grind, but the engine block has shifted liners - which are also worn past tolerance.

The block is effectively scrap being beyond economic repair - so I now need to find a redundant 1850 engine or short motor that can be reconditioned.

Salvation is sorely needed - can anyone help with this please?

Best regards

Author:  xvivalve [Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1850 - Possible water pump issue - diagnosis opinion requested

Shifted liners on a K series maybe, but I've not heard of it happening on a Triumph slant 4...you can get new liners for the Sprint for about £20-22 each, bot sure about 1850...

I have an 1850 engine here in Stourbridge, whilst it turns over on the key, I've yet to get it running to test it.

I also have an 1850 engine in a scrap Sprint which has sat for 30 years which might render a short option...

Author:  xvivalve [Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1850 - Possible water pump issue - diagnosis opinion requested

I also have a couple of blocks sitting in my lock up, but would need to measure them as they may be Sprint items...

Author:  dursley92 [Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1850 - Possible water pump issue - diagnosis opinion requested

Quote:
No apologies necessary Mart - you've been really helpful - thank you.

I stripped the bottom end of the engine out yesterday - things happen for a reason don't they? Finding that the mating face of the block was not flat, meant getting the block ready for the machine shop to plane the surface flat.

In doing that, I found that Nos 1 and 3 pistons had broken compression rings - clean break in both cases, no bore damage. Also that No4 big end shell bearings were both deeply scored, probably by a bit of grit. The crank journal will hopefully polish ok within tolerance. All other bearings and journals are fine.

Waiting now on the word - whether the crank will need a re-grind and whether the block is cracked. I don't believe it is and if not, it will be chemically cleaned, the bores honed and the mating face planed. I've asked that they note how much they remove to get it flat.

Another parts spend beckons now for a full set of standard pistons rings and +20 big end bearings, plus various gaskets, water hoses etc etc - the expenditure debit column knows no end with this car. Bulletin ends - for now - there will be more!

Thank you again to all contributors for your help - much appreciated fellas.

If you are getting the block face planed don't forget to give them the timing cover to do at the same time - like I did!

Author:  soe8m [Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1850 - Possible water pump issue - diagnosis opinion requested

And when skimming the deck have it inline with the crankshaft bore and not the casting. All bores and faces are in std. form way off. That's why the jackshaft keeper plate is alway's worn on one side. The crankshaft bore is also slightly angled causing uneven piston hight. When skimming the deck this is the chance to have that corrected.

Jeroen

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