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 Post subject: Torquing The Head
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:50 pm 
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Hi All

I recently bought a restored Sprint with Engine Rebuild, still running the engine in.

I see torquing the head on Sprints mentioned a bit, can i get some direction on this?

Is it a Maintenance must?
When should it be done?

Any other detail you can send would be brilliant

Thanks
Joe


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 Post subject: Re: Torquing The Head
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:19 am 
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Posts: 470
Hello Joe.

There is lots of info on Sprint head re- torquing on the forum, here is a useful link and there are many more:
https://forum.triumphdolomite.co.uk/vie ... hp?t=14203

The consensus is that it is well worth doing, especially after a rebuild like yours. I did mine at the weekend (new car to me) and was surprised at how much it had deviated from the recommended 58 lb/ft. No idea when it was last done however!

Kind Regards
MC

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 Post subject: Re: Torquing The Head
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:24 pm 
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Might help you....

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 Post subject: Re: Torquing The Head
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:04 am 
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That diagram is wrong. You do the studs first then the bolts. On that diagram...1,3,5,7,9 then 2,4,6,8,10.

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1997 TVR Chimaera 450


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Last edited by Mad Mart on Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Torquing The Head
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:02 am 
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The only thing I would add is.

Beg-Buy or borrow (Don’t Steal) yourself a decent torque wrench.

We had all our torque Wrenches tested amongst other stuff whilst I was working for a German Car Dealer.
My only ones within spec where my Expensive Snap-On Ones.
I binned my cheap ones.

You don’t need to spend mega money just don’t go cheap.

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2009 Mini Clubman Cooper S Daily Driver.
1980 Dolomite Sprint with a touch of BLTS
Balanced Lightened and Tweaked 13B Rotary and SuperCharged.
Back in my possession 22 September 2019.
Rebuilding the Sprint time taken so far, 111Hrs@15/12/2020
212Hrs @31/12/2021
352 @ 28/11/2022
455Hrs @ 20/10/2023
480Hrs @ 14/03/2024
This is time taken at the Sprint not necessary time worked.

Working on a ratio of just 7Hrs a day not including driving to the Sprint.
That equals to 68 days that doesn’t include weekends.
Member TDC no 0471

Project 13B Sprint now back on.


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 Post subject: Re: Torquing The Head
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:34 pm 
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Quote:
That diagram is wrong. You do the studs first then the bolts. On that diagram...1,3,5,7,9 then 2,4,6,8,10.
Really? I’ve used the above with no issue, but I stand corrected. You llive and you learn! Appologies Joe - bin my advice.


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 Post subject: Re: Torquing The Head
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:53 am 
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Quote:
Quote:
That diagram is wrong. You do the studs first then the bolts. On that diagram...1,3,5,7,9 then 2,4,6,8,10.
Really? I’ve used the above with no issue, but I stand corrected. You llive and you learn! Appologies Joe - bin my advice.
That sequence was advice from Sprintspares. If it was good enough for Jamie Weidner, it’s good enough for me 😉


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 Post subject: Re: Torquing The Head
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:14 am 
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I'm not sure which sequence you are referring to Alun but the sequence I have given is that used from the original British Leyland workshop manual, which would have been used in garages across the country. I'm sure the BL engineers knew their engines. You need to tighten the studs first because of the angle they are on.

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Engines, Gearboxes, Overdrives etc. rebuilt. PM me.


1997 TVR Chimaera 450


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 Post subject: Re: Torquing The Head
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:06 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
That diagram is wrong. You do the studs first then the bolts. On that diagram...1,3,5,7,9 then 2,4,6,8,10.
Really? I’ve used the above with no issue, but I stand corrected. You llive and you learn! Appologies Joe - bin my advice.
That sequence was advice from Sprintspares. If it was good enough for Jamie Weidner, it’s good enough for me 😉
Yes , I was under the impression that the sprintspares technical instructions were improvements over factory instruction that had been learned over years of sprint engine building and tuning experience.

A bit confusing to have two different methods. You pays your money and make your choice as they say......


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 Post subject: Re: Torquing The Head
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:14 pm 
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Quote:
I'm not sure which sequence you are referring to Alun but the sequence I have given is that used from the original British Leyland workshop manual, which would have been used in garages across the country. I'm sure the BL engineers knew their engines. You need to tighten the studs first because of the angle they are on.
...and it was garages across the country that gave the Sprint its appetite for head gasket reputation...

The workshop manual also tells you to bleed a tandem brake system front wheels first ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: Torquing The Head
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:18 pm 
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Quote:

The workshop manual also tells you to bleed a tandem brake system front wheels first ;-)
As well you may! I do!

Since you are bleeding 2 entirely separate systems, it doesn't matter a pig's burp WHICH one you bleed first. I bleed the fronts first, because they contribute most to the length of the pedal, also they seem to bleed easier that way.

The old rule of bleed the wheel furthest from the master first, is only valid on a single circuit system. I still bow to it's logic by bleeding the N/S/F first, but it's more force of habit than anything sensible, the difference in pipe length is only a little over a foot (409mm to be precise) and is really inconsequential.

On most modern diagonal split systems you bleed the O/S/R rear first then the N/S/F to get 1 circuit, then the other rear followed it's opposing front to complete the job.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Torquing The Head
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:03 am 
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Quote:
Quote:

The workshop manual also tells you to bleed a tandem brake system front wheels first ;-)
As well you may! I do!

Since you are bleeding 2 entirely separate systems, it doesn't matter a pig's burp WHICH one you bleed first. I bleed the fronts first, because they contribute most to the length of the pedal, also they seem to bleed easier that way.

The old rule of bleed the wheel furthest from the master first, is only valid on a single circuit system. I still bow to it's logic by bleeding the N/S/F first, but it's more force of habit than anything sensible, the difference in pipe length is only a little over a foot (409mm to be precise) and is really inconsequential.

On most modern diagonal split systems you bleed the O/S/R rear first then the N/S/F to get 1 circuit, then the other rear followed it's opposing front to complete the job.

Steve
Ah, but they are not entirely separate; they share the master cylinder with effectively a single piston. If you bleed the fronts first, as per the manual, because they are separate systems, you can create a pedal on just the fronts which then prevents the piston moving sufficiently for the rear seals to start operating the rear system. This has now been determined as the cause of some folk not being able to bleed the rear, especially if they bleed the front without any fluid in the rear.


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 Post subject: Re: Torquing The Head
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:47 am 
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Head studs first,middle to outers, then head bolts, middle to outers. After first run of fresh head gasket I let it cool overnight then slacken each nut (one at a time) and re torque, repeat with bolts. Then after a few hundred miles do the same . Both re torques will show more movement. On my stuff a further re torque (so 4 torques in total) showed no more movement of the position of nuts/bolts. Ive used this method using Payen and cheapie ebay gaskets with success.

Tony

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 Post subject: Re: Torquing The Head
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2023 9:08 pm 
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OK that's my first torque done, I did 24, 44, 58 a couple of the centre nuts didn't click first time on 24 do pretty loose. Mad how they could slacken so much.
Would most of you replace the gasket each time?


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