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 Post subject: Uprated Springs issue
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:48 am 
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Hi Everyone

For my modified Dolomite, I decided to run the Rimmer Brothers Uprated, 1”drop springs up front. I have a set already in the rear from when I first “restored” the car and the fitted fine but the front ones have always been an issue.

When I first “restored” the car. I got the full set of Uprated 1” drop springs, and the rears fussed perfectly, no issues. But the front ones made the nose sit about 2” higher than my very worn stock springs so I returned them and just ran on cut front springs, oops.

But with me engine swap, I presumed that the 3.0 V6 I was swapping in was heavier than the 1500 engine was removing, so I repurchased the Uprated springs, but run into the same issue, the front suspension is sitting in the bump stops of the shocks, even with the engine and gearbox mounted up. Granted there’s maybe another 10/20 kilos to go back into the car such as front bumper, rad, water pump, alternator etc, but the front is so stiff I doubt it’ll move all that much.

Has anyone else ran into similar issues with these springs? I have a feeling I’ll have to get some more custom springs made

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:00 am 
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Not had that specific issue, but I ran into trouble with Rimmers springs not fitting and seeming to have nothing to do with their description on the website (in terms of stiffness/ride height) I reported it and they said they'd investigate and then I heard nothing. Good luck finding an alternative! If you find something let us know!

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:50 am 
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Quote:
Not had that specific issue, but I ran into trouble with Rimmers springs not fitting and seeming to have nothing to do with their description on the website (in terms of stiffness/ride height) I reported it and they said they'd investigate and then I heard nothing. Good luck finding an alternative! If you find something let us know!
I had this issue but it was because my car was a 1500, and the springs are for the Sprint, and the front shocks and springs on the Sprint are larger in diameter and a touch longer than the 1300/1500 springs. This means that the Uprated springs don’t replace the 1300/1500 springs. I had to buy Sprint front shocks and top mounts.

I’m debating making a set of front shocks as the aftermarket ones on rimmers don’t work the way I want them to and the one set I can find that do work the way I want them to are around £4K as they’re triple adjust, which I don’t need.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:21 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:12 pm
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Location: Highley, Shropshire
Quote:
Hi Everyone

For my modified Dolomite, I decided to run the Rimmer Brothers Uprated, 1”drop springs up front. I have a set already in the rear from when I first “restored” the car and the fitted fine but the front ones have always been an issue.

When I first “restored” the car. I got the full set of Uprated 1” drop springs, and the rears fussed perfectly, no issues. But the front ones made the nose sit about 2” higher than my very worn stock springs so I returned them and just ran on cut front springs, oops.

But with me engine swap, I presumed that the 3.0 V6 I was swapping in was heavier than the 1500 engine was removing, so I repurchased the Uprated springs, but run into the same issue, the front suspension is sitting in the bump stops of the shocks, even with the engine and gearbox mounted up. Granted there’s maybe another 10/20 kilos to go back into the car such as front bumper, rad, water pump, alternator etc, but the front is so stiff I doubt it’ll move all that much.

Has anyone else ran into similar issues with these springs? I have a feeling I’ll have to get some more custom springs made
Think the Jag motor is all alloy, correct me if i'm wrong! In which case, it is almost certainly LIGHTER than the all iron 1500 4 banger that came out, which is in turn lighter as an engine/trans assembly than that of the Sprint engine/overdrive box unit most commonly used. If you are following "normal" proceedures with your conversion, the engine is probably well back in the bay, shifting the CofG further back too.

As i've noted before, many times, there is virtually NO info available as to Dolomite standard spring rates, except for the semi apochryphal 140lb all round for a stock Sprint. Since "everybody knows this" it's probably not true either! It's certainly not mentioned in my copies of the various works manuals. If you don't know the rates and lengths of the stock spings, how can you work out what will be stiffer and/or lower?

Confronted with this dilemma on my own conversions, i've found the best solution to be shox with adjustable spring platforms to set ride height and to run them with standard Sprint front springs (which suit the overall weight of the CAR, more or less) and whatever rear springs were stock on the original model, both in weight and length. I've found that handling is readily compromised by having the back end too stiff whereas, apart from a slightly crashier (not in the bent metal sense) ride than needed, it's hard to get the front TOO stiff.

However, saying that, i've never been tempted to go OTT and fit 500lb compo springs on the front (you can get them and they might work on a pure track car but that's not what i'm about)

You and Sam are not the first to find that the springs supplied from Lincoln can raise the car rather than lowering it! Or maybe it's just one set being sent out over and over till they find a car they WILL work on! Who knows?

Steve

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'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:46 pm 
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Quote:

Think the Jag motor is all alloy, correct me if i'm wrong! In which case, it is almost certainly LIGHTER than the all iron 1500 4 banger that came out, which is in turn lighter as an engine/trans assembly than that of the Sprint engine/overdrive box unit most commonly used. If you are following "normal" proceedures with your conversion, the engine is probably well back in the bay, shifting the CofG further back too.

As i've noted before, many times, there is virtually NO info available as to Dolomite standard spring rates, except for the semi apochryphal 140lb all round for a stock Sprint. Since "everybody knows this" it's probably not true either! It's certainly not mentioned in my copies of the various works manuals. If you don't know the rates and lengths of the stock spings, how can you work out what will be stiffer and/or lower?

Confronted with this dilemma on my own conversions, i've found the best solution to be shox with adjustable spring platforms to set ride height and to run them with standard Sprint front springs (which suit the overall weight of the CAR, more or less) and whatever rear springs were stock on the original model, both in weight and length. I've found that handling is readily compromised by having the back end too stiff whereas, apart from a slightly crashier (not in the bent metal sense) ride than needed, it's hard to get the front TOO stiff.

However, saying that, i've never been tempted to go OTT and fit 500lb compo springs on the front (you can get them and they might work on a pure track car but that's not what i'm about)

You and Sam are not the first to find that the springs supplied from Lincoln can raise the car rather than lowering it! Or maybe it's just one set being sent out over and over till they find a car they WILL work on! Who knows?

Steve
Correct, the Jag lump is all alloy, but the bare weight of the engine is around 125kg, which is actually pretty similar to the 1500 weight, which is about 25kg lighter than the Sprint engine.

I have the engine as far back as I can, but the CoG is pretty much directly over the front axle. From Rimmers website, the Uprated springs should only be 175lb, which is only 35lbs stinger in theory, but this set is rock solid. I’m around 190/200lbs, and I can get it compressed at all.

I too am debating the “race” springs of 500lb if I can sort out a set of coil overs to sort the ride height out, just to see what it’s like. I read a tuning guide a few years back that had the race spring rates at around 500 front, 200 rear, and almost no rear anti rollbar. I have a feeling that the rear roll bar is almost redundant due to the way the rear trailing arm bushes also have anti roll properties, and polybushing them would only make it worse. I’m running through the calculations needed to work out some good spring rates to try at some point

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:51 am 
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I went through exactly the same a few years back on my sprint.
The Lincoln lowered springs didn’t seem to make any difference to the ride height, I had a set of sprint spares (the Southend one) super hard lowered spring from my yoooof, that I also tried, but these were ridiculous hard for the road. What I was thinking putting them on when I was younger, beggars belief.

Ended up using as Steve says adjustable seat shockers, Avo’s (which need spacers, sprintV8s shock retaining plates would have been ideal) and std height and rate springs. Then adjust the damping rate on the shockers to suit.

I found This gave the best compromise on ride, and ride height.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 4:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:13 pm
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A Club member who is employed by a spring and shock absorber manufacturer has approached me to see if the Club would be interested in having good quality items produced. My initial response was that we generally don't try to compete with existing suppliers...unless we can source better quality, or substantially cheaper items of commensurate quality. At the time I was unaware of the problem with the offer from existing suppliers.

The conversation thus far was for standard components, but 'uprated' would also apparently be possible. The problem, as ever, lies with quantities and storage as an economic run for them would apparently involve a minimum of 50 car sets...

Opinions?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:36 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:08 am
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Location: southampton
I Have just brought a set of ride and height shocks ( Gaz ) with standard springs from the shop in Lincon and had them fitted on the car for about 6 weeks and done 200 miles on them, I have had to adjust them a few times because of the springs settling, I have the shocks set at 8 clicks and ride height set at 335mm from wheel arch to wheel centre.

Last weekend I adjusted them again to my ride height and went for a 50-mile drive and found they had dropped down to 320mm, on the driver's side I have about 25mm of adjustment left but on the passenger side the is right up to the top of adjustment, so I can not adjust anymore, I have emailed and rung the shop but they have not got back to me.

Would I be better off fitting standard height 175lb Springs or do you have any other suggestions, I only use the car on the road.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:55 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:35 pm
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Location: Filey, North Yorkshire
Quote:
A Club member who is employed by a spring and shock absorber manufacturer has approached me to see if the Club would be interested in having good quality items produced. My initial response was that we generally don't try to compete with existing suppliers...unless we can source better quality, or substantially cheaper items of commensurate quality. At the time I was unaware of the problem with the offer from existing suppliers.

The conversation thus far was for standard components, but 'uprated' would also apparently be possible. The problem, as ever, lies with quantities and storage as an economic run for them would apparently involve a minimum of 50 car sets...

Opinions?
I guess it depends on whether the 50 sets would all need to be the same or if they would be 50 sets where some are standard some are uprated. I wouldn't want the club to take a huge financial risk on something that would never be realised, but at the same time it would be great to have "fit for purpose" parts available.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:22 am 
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Yeah, as much as having parts that are actually fit for purpose would be good, that’s quite the risk for the club to take on. For stuff like this, where were talking about modifications, adjustments, and tuning, I’d leave it up to someone else. I’ve been tempted to go to someone like BC Racing or maxspeeding and get a set made as they do have a custom coil-over service. just need specs like Overall length, Travel, Spring weight, and Top Mount dimensions. Least that way you can use standard 2.25” springs which will be substantially cheaper than getting 50/100 springs made up which may or may not sell.

I was looking at the spax adjustable shocks but I’m not a fan of the spring perches to adjust ride height, which is why I’m looking at BCs which have both spring perch and mount height adjustment so you can have lower ride height without removing shock travel.

Plus. Can play around with the dampening settings to suit modern tyres/roads/tracks rather. Kind of like Spec MX5, where can develop a non-adjust shock either tuned more for track, comfort, fast road, etc. I know this would be a lot of dev time but if people are taking their car to the track anyway or driving around daily can provide feedback, will get real world data which will help.

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So many ideas... So little budget... So little time.


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