The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

The Number One Club for owners of Triumph's range of small saloons from the 1960s and 1970s.
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 Post subject: Engine Number
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:35 pm 
I've recently bought a 1971 Spitfire fitted with a Toledo engine. Is it possible to date the engine? Its a 1300, number is DG44462


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Number
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:45 am 
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TDC Shropshire Area Organiser

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:12 pm
Posts: 7013
Location: Highley, Shropshire
It's not possible to date the engine with any accuracy, Engine numbers don't tally closely, even with commission numbers as 2 and 4 door cars had different commission number codes but the same engine code. But if I had to guess, i'd say early to mid 72.

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Number
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:23 pm 
Thanks for the info. Gives me something to go off when ordering parts.


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Number
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:37 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:46 am
Posts: 424
Location: Midhurst, West Sussex.
Is it a MKIV Spitfire?


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Number
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:13 pm 
Yes, its a MK4, Some engine parts changed in the 1st couple of years. As I don't know the origins of the engine I'll have to check before I order


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Number
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:24 pm 
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TDC Shropshire Area Organiser

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:12 pm
Posts: 7013
Location: Highley, Shropshire
As far as differences between the Toledo and MkIV Spitfire engine go, there aren't that many. The Spitfire has twin carbs where the Toledo only has one and a different Delco distributor with take off for the rev counter drive. I believe the Spit has a more agressive camshaft profile as well, but that's about it! If you look at valve sizes and compression ratios (which i've done for both the Toledo and various 1500 engines) they are all much of a muchness with miniscule and not always beneficial variations with age and type. The 1500 doesn't have significantly bigger valves even than the 1300. Pretty much, one head gasket fits all and crank, rods, pistons and bearings are all interchangeable.

HTH, Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Number
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:17 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:41 pm
Posts: 1031
Location: Silsoe, Beds
isn't the head gasket different? I believe some have a recess in the block.

Malcolm

_________________
1942 Willys Jeep
1960 1385 Austin Mini
1975 Dolomite Sprint Automatic
1973 Dolomite 1850 Automatic
1976 Dolomite 1300 (aka Lucky)


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Number
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:30 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:26 am
Posts: 2473
Quote:
As far as differences between the Toledo and MkIV Spitfire engine go, there aren't that many. The Spitfire has twin carbs where the Toledo only has one and a different Delco distributor with take off for the rev counter drive. I believe the Spit has a more agressive camshaft profile as well, but that's about it! If you look at valve sizes and compression ratios (which i've done for both the Toledo and various 1500 engines) they are all much of a muchness with miniscule and not always beneficial variations with age and type. The 1500 doesn't have significantly bigger valves even than the 1300. Pretty much, one head gasket fits all and crank, rods, pistons and bearings are all interchangeable.

HTH, Steve
Pretty sure the toledo 1300 has a significantly lower CR than the spitfire, so mucAh so, it can be used on a 1500 to give about 9.75CR (may need to check, memory is not what it used to be) However, the toledo has the big valves, a good thing. The Toledo cam is very mild too.
However, as many suppliers have historically supplied "1300" engnes, it could be a toledo block, with spitfire head. So checks need to be done!
Head gasket same as mkIV spit, recessed gasket. Earlier spits have non-recessed bores.

But unless you are after a quick spitfire, the differences are not huge. Always makes me smile when somebody reckons a change to K+Ns and exhaust (or whatever) has made their car so much quicker... it is 99% down to the fact they are using their right foot more, not the 1bhp they may have gained (or often a few they have lost)

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Clive Senior
Brighton


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Number
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:36 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:35 pm
Posts: 956
Location: Filey, North Yorkshire
A useful reference w.r.t. head+block combinations, valve sizes and CRs:

Image

Stolen from: http://auskellian.com/paul/links_files/ ... sion_Ratio

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Image


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Number
PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:26 pm 
Thanks for all the information


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