The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

The Number One Club for owners of Triumph's range of small saloons from the 1960s and 1970s.
It is currently Sat May 21, 2022 9:50 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [17 posts ]  Go to page12Next
Author Message
PostPosted:Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:06 pm 
Offline
TDC Member
User avatar

Joined:Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:23 pm
Posts:240
Location:Aberdeen
Hi

I have just picked up a sprint rear axel to overhaul for my engine conversion. The plan is to strip it, get the casing blasted and powder coat, and fit new bearings and seals.

I will be making a rear disc conversion (using the MG TF calipers, discs and stub bolts I already have fitted to my 1500 axel but with new brackets) so I will be removing the rear drum set up (As before, I don't care if you think its a pointless upgrade, it looks cool and works great with my Tracker jack front brakes so would be a shame not to keep them).

Any advises on striping the axel, or anything to look out for? Parts wise it should be easy but is there any upgrades on the seals I could do?

Thanks for any tips!

Regards

Barry

P.s Should i get the drums blasted at the same time, maybe they will be off use to someone (if they collect from Aberdeen!)?

_________________
Aberdeen

1975 Triumph 1500 TC various shades of blue


Top
   
PostPosted:Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:17 pm 
Offline
TDC West Mids Area Organiser
User avatar

Joined:Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts:13315
Location:Over here...can't you see me?
Take care which bearings you buy, there are two distinct qualities as shown by this link:

https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GHB166

I have a limited quantity of NOS Unipart GHB166 which are the far superior Timken brand, but my price is by comparison a very reasonable £35 each inc postage!


Top
   
PostPosted:Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:25 pm 
Offline
TDC Member

Joined:Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:53 pm
Posts:1409
Location:Harrow Middlesex

may be an idea to fit a oil drain plug ?

Dave


Top
   
PostPosted:Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:20 pm 
Offline
Future Club member hopefully!
Future Club member hopefully!

Joined:Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:04 pm
Posts:1451
I would be a bit wary of those MG TF calipers, we have had problems with them on my fathers MGF. They don't like winter layups and the handbrake mechanism in them is not user serviceable. Once it starts to seize up, we have found the only effective repair is to buy a new caliper, which is a bit of a pain.


Top
   
PostPosted:Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:24 pm 
Offline
TDC Member

Joined:Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:53 pm
Posts:1409
Location:Harrow Middlesex
Quote:
I would be a bit wary of those MG TF calipers, we have had problems with them on my fathers MGF. They don't like winter layups and the handbrake mechanism in them is not user serviceable. Once it starts to seize up, we have found the only effective repair is to buy a new caliper, which is a bit of a pain.
I fitted Rover 45 calipers to mine,there almost the same as MGF,so far not had any trouble,but will keep an eye on them,
When your Father lays his car up over winter does he pull the hand brake up ?

Dave


Top
   
PostPosted:Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:45 pm 
Offline
Future Club member hopefully!
Future Club member hopefully!

Joined:Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:04 pm
Posts:1451
Quote:
Quote:
I would be a bit wary of those MG TF calipers, we have had problems with them on my fathers MGF. They don't like winter layups and the handbrake mechanism in them is not user serviceable. Once it starts to seize up, we have found the only effective repair is to buy a new caliper, which is a bit of a pain.
I fitted Rover 45 calipers to mine,there almost the same as MGF,so far not had any trouble,but will keep an eye on them,
When your Father lays his car up over winter does he pull the hand brake up ?

Dave
He left it on but to be fair we had no issue disengaging the handbrake. The problem was, once the brakes got corroded over winter, we couldn't get full movement back in the mechanism once they were off and the handbrake was no longer effective. It failed the mot.

They just don't like being out in the weather without use.


Top
   
PostPosted:Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:08 pm 
Offline
TDC Shropshire Area Organiser

Joined:Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:12 pm
Posts:6536
Location:Highley, Shropshire
Around 80% of disc rear cars use some version of this caliper for the handbrake (posher stuff uses the far superior "drum in disc" system)

It's not a brilliant system by any stretch of the imagination and usually is only adequate rather than excellent. But it's not really a problem. Though i'd recommend upgrading to dual circuit brakes if your car hasn't got them already. That way, come MOT time the handbrake only has to make 16% of 1G, rather than a single circuit system which demands that the handbrake make 25%.

It's not a hard thing to work with though, once you understand it. Forget the hydraulic side, that's just a normal single piston floating caliper, nothing to it. The handbrake bit is the bit that fails and trust me, you don't need to leave it all winter for it to get sticky, they regularly jam up and become inefficient in daily use. But it only needs a good squirt of plus gas (other penetrating fluids are available) and a couple of minutes working the arm to get it all functioning well again.

Why do they stick? 2 reasons, both connected to the fact that handbrake actuating arm is solely responsible for the self adjustment of the mechanism that copes with pad wear. Reason 1, the pads wear so slowly that the arm and internal mechanism doesn't get enough use to keep everything free and Reason 2 the actuating arm is out in the dirt and muck and MUST move over it's entire travel and return fully to work the self adjuster. The caliper HAS a spring to assist the return of the arm but it doesn't take much gunk to overcome the spring then the arm stops returning fully , self adjustment stops, but the pads continue to wear from footbrake use (yes, and from binding when the handbrake sticks on a bit) and soon enough, the handbrake no longer works.

An astute driver will notice the travel in the lever increasing and get to it before the problem gets serious.

Fixing it is simple, disconnect the inner cable from the operating arm and smother the spindle area with your favourite penetrating fluid. Some operating arms have a 13mm nut retaining them on the spindle and some don't, if it does, you can use a long 13mm spanner to gently work the arm back and forth (being especially careful on the anticlockwise or "undo" phase of the nut) if there isn't a nut, a large mole grip on the arm works. Keep working it until full return under spring action alone is possible. You will notice that as the thing starts to return fully, the travel in the "on" direction reduces proportionally till there is only 1/2 an inch or so of movement. Then it's done, slip the cable back in and you are in business. Most cars don't require wheel removal to do it, some, like SWMBOs Picasso, don't even need to be jacked up! 10 minutes per side or less! Seemples!

Steve

PS since SWMBOs Picasso is automatic, the handbrake only gets used once a year - at MOT time! So this is a regular job for me on the pre MOT service!

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


Top
   
PostPosted:Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:39 pm 
Offline
TDC West Mids Area Organiser
User avatar

Joined:Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts:13315
Location:Over here...can't you see me?
...and don't forget the Club now have these in stock:

https://forum.triumphdolomite.co.uk/vie ... rs#p337825


Top
   
PostPosted:Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:13 pm 
Offline
Future Club member hopefully!
Future Club member hopefully!
User avatar

Joined:Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:13 am
Posts:3098
Location:The continent
You have a casing spreader? You can't overhaul successfully without one.

Jeroen.

_________________
Classic Kabelboom Company. For all your wiring needs. http://www.classickabelboomcompany.com


Top
   
PostPosted:Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:23 am 
Offline
TDC Shropshire Area Organiser

Joined:Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:12 pm
Posts:6536
Location:Highley, Shropshire
Quote:
You have a casing spreader? You can't overhaul successfully without one.

Jeroen.
Yeah, what Jeroen said ^^^^^^^

I was gonna mention that and got sidetracked with the handbrake!

This Salisbury style diff is a monster to overhaul and bits are short. Mad Mart has (or had) a diff spreader, but even with one, it's a PITA to build the diff and come out with something quiet.

Not much use to you where you live, but I have a guy for this who is much more experienced than I am! Like Clint Eastwood said, a man should always know his limits!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


Top
   
PostPosted:Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:14 am 
Offline
TDC Member
User avatar

Joined:Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:23 pm
Posts:240
Location:Aberdeen
Quote:
I would be a bit wary of those MG TF calipers, we have had problems with them on my fathers MGF. They don't like winter layups and the handbrake mechanism in them is not user serviceable. Once it starts to seize up, we have found the only effective repair is to buy a new caliper, which is a bit of a pain.
Hi

Thanks for the warning, but they have my car for 12 months with no problems (although only do 1500 miles and leave it in a garage over when not in use), so I think the issue is your dads car.

Regards

Barry

_________________
Aberdeen

1975 Triumph 1500 TC various shades of blue


Top
   
PostPosted:Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:17 am 
Offline
TDC Member
User avatar

Joined:Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:23 pm
Posts:240
Location:Aberdeen
Quote:
Quote:
You have a casing spreader? You can't overhaul successfully without one.

Jeroen.
Yeah, what Jeroen said ^^^^^^^

I was gonna mention that and got sidetracked with the handbrake!

This Salisbury style diff is a monster to overhaul and bits are short. Mad Mart has (or had) a diff spreader, but even with one, it's a PITA to build the diff and come out with something quiet.

Not much use to you where you live, but I have a guy for this who is much more experienced than I am! Like Clint Eastwood said, a man should always know his limits!

Steve
Hi Steve

Do you have a link to a photo of what I need?

The plan was just to get the diff out, get the casing blasted and painted and fit new wheel bearing and seals. I am now guessing its more involed than the 1500 axel?

Regards

Barry

_________________
Aberdeen

1975 Triumph 1500 TC various shades of blue


Top
   
PostPosted:Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:39 pm 
Offline
TDC Shropshire Area Organiser

Joined:Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:12 pm
Posts:6536
Location:Highley, Shropshire
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You have a casing spreader? You can't overhaul successfully without one.

Jeroen.
Yeah, what Jeroen said ^^^^^^^

I was gonna mention that and got sidetracked with the handbrake!

This Salisbury style diff is a monster to overhaul and bits are short. Mad Mart has (or had) a diff spreader, but even with one, it's a PITA to build the diff and come out with something quiet.

Not much use to you where you live, but I have a guy for this who is much more experienced than I am! Like Clint Eastwood said, a man should always know his limits!

Steve
Hi Steve

Do you have a link to a photo of what I need?

The plan was just to get the diff out, get the casing blasted and painted and fit new wheel bearing and seals. I am now guessing its more involed than the 1500 axel?

Regards

Barry
I don't have a picture, but I think there is one somewhere on the forum.

Yes it's a complex diff, the spreader is needed to fit the diff with the correct carrier bearing shims into the case. If you are changing the carrier bearings, the shim thickness would need to be calculated (don't ask me how) Also the pinion shaft needs to come out separately once the diff is removed. Replacement officially involves using a new "crushable" spacer between the pinion shaft bearings, these are somewhere between very rare and unobtanium. there are workarounds for changing a pinion seal, but if fitting new bearings you'd have to have one. The other way to go is to fit a solid spacer, shims and castle nut like earlier TR4s and their cousins had, but finding those bits ain't easy either.

My advice is, unless it is obviously graunchy by hand, give it wire brushing and a coat of Hammerite or whatever and slap it in, maybe change the half shaft seals in passing and give it a road test. Then, if it ain't broke.....

Steve

PS i've put a number of used Sprint axles in various cars for myself and others, i've not had an unusably noisy one yet. Just lucky I guess!

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


Top
   
PostPosted:Tue Feb 01, 2022 8:47 am 
Offline
TDC Member
User avatar

Joined:Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:23 pm
Posts:240
Location:Aberdeen
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:


Yeah, what Jeroen said ^^^^^^^

I was gonna mention that and got sidetracked with the handbrake!

This Salisbury style diff is a monster to overhaul and bits are short. Mad Mart has (or had) a diff spreader, but even with one, it's a PITA to build the diff and come out with something quiet.

Not much use to you where you live, but I have a guy for this who is much more experienced than I am! Like Clint Eastwood said, a man should always know his limits!

Steve
Hi Steve

Do you have a link to a photo of what I need?

The plan was just to get the diff out, get the casing blasted and painted and fit new wheel bearing and seals. I am now guessing its more involed than the 1500 axel?

Regards

Barry
I don't have a picture, but I think there is one somewhere on the forum.

Yes it's a complex diff, the spreader is needed to fit the diff with the correct carrier bearing shims into the case. If you are changing the carrier bearings, the shim thickness would need to be calculated (don't ask me how) Also the pinion shaft needs to come out separately once the diff is removed. Replacement officially involves using a new "crushable" spacer between the pinion shaft bearings, these are somewhere between very rare and unobtanium. there are workarounds for changing a pinion seal, but if fitting new bearings you'd have to have one. The other way to go is to fit a solid spacer, shims and castle nut like earlier TR4s and their cousins had, but finding those bits ain't easy either.

My advice is, unless it is obviously graunchy by hand, give it wire brushing and a coat of Hammerite or whatever and slap it in, maybe change the half shaft seals in passing and give it a road test. Then, if it ain't broke.....

Steve

PS i've put a number of used Sprint axles in various cars for myself and others, i've not had an unusably noisy one yet. Just lucky I guess!
Hi Steve

That's perfect, just the info I needed. I will get it blasted, clean out the casing of all the old oil, Change the half shaft seals and bearings and clart it in Hammarite.

Regards

Barry

_________________
Aberdeen

1975 Triumph 1500 TC various shades of blue


Top
   
PostPosted:Tue Feb 01, 2022 8:55 am 
Offline
TDC Member

Joined:Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:26 am
Posts:2277
Quote:
That's perfect, just the info I needed. I will get it blasted, clean out the casing of all the old oil, Change the half shaft seals and bearings and clart it in Hammerite
Remember the sprint axle is a very different beast to the other dolly axles. You cannoy just pull the shafts and pop the diff out, the diff is built into the axle case.

A workaround for teh collapsabel spacer is to just get some shims and use thise with the old spacer, giving you a bit of extra to squash down. Kippings did that with the small chassis diffs when the collapsable spacers were unobtainable. And I had a 3.63 built with solid spacer to replace the collapsable one, that would have been early 90s.

_________________
Clive Senior
Brighton
Driving Toledo fitted with slant 4, sprint OD box and axle. Needs fettling!


Top
   
Display posts from previous: Sort by 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [17 posts ]  Go to page12Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AhrefsBot [Bot], Awaiting Repair, Google [Bot], PetalBot [Bot], SEMrush [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited