Weights of Substitute Wheels & Tyres
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I've also found a set of F alloys on ebay in a style I quite like (6 blocky, parallel spokes) WITH tyres for £120. The tyres have decent tread but are the usual MGF combo of 2 x 185/55 and 2 x 205/50. But I could TRY the 185/55s on the back and see how it goes, before I spend money on tyres, something I never thought to do on the Carledo in years gone by. Might also be possible to shave a couple of mm off these too.
I'm not terribly worried about the weight of the F rims, it didn't seem to noticeably upset the Carledo, but then again I expected harsh and noisy from that track focused car, so wasn't surprised when I got it! But it didn't have bump steer or any of the other nasty side effects of too high an unsprung weight.
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So far, I have yet to weigh my sets of five bare, tyreless 6 x 15 inch MG 2000 Montego & 5½ x 15 inch MG 2000 Maestro cross-lattice style wheels, but for the purposes of initial comparison, of combined wheel & tyre weights, I did weigh the following on my decades old, “less-than-accurate” Vanguard bathroom scales.
Dolomite Sprint 5½J x 13 inch wheels & Firestone S211, 185/70 R13 (circa 6 mm tread): weight = 2 st 0 lbs = 28 lbs = 12•7 kg
MG Maestro 5½J x 15 inch wheel & Michelin MXV2, 185/55 R15 tyre (circa 2½ mm tread): weight = 2 st 2 lbs = 30 lbs = 13•6 kg
MG Maestro 5½J x 15 inch wheel & Cheng Shin Maxxis, 185/55 R15 tyre (circa 6~7 mm tread): weight = 2 st 6 lbs = 34 lbs = 15•4 kg
It’s interesting to note the apparent 1•8 kg weight difference, between the nearly four-fifths worn MXV2 tyre and the nearly new Maxxis tyre. If one were to substitute either 185/60 R15 or 185/65 R15 tyres, then one would expect the wheel & tyre combinations to be somewhat heavier, owing to the increased quantity of textile-reinforced rubber. Compared to the weight of the heavy, rear live-axle, this increase would be relatively insignificant, but it remains to be seen what effect this will have on the front suspension.
I finally got around to weighing the bare, tyreless 6 x 15 inch MG 2000 Montego & 5½ x 15 inch MG 2000 Maestro cross-lattice style wheels on the same Vanguard bathroom scales that I used to weigh the 5½ x 13 inch Dolomite Sprint wheel with tyre and the two 5½ x 15 inch MG 2000 Maestro wheels with tyres. I got different values of weight measurements, using two other bathroom scales (one reading was fairly-close, to within a ½ lb, and the other was way off!) that I managed to borrow, so I cannot assume that any of these values are accurate, but having been weighed on the same Vanguard bathroom scales, they do form a basis for comparison.
MG Maestro 5½J x 15 inch wheel with no tyre: weight = 1 st 1½ lbs = 15½ lbs = 7•0 kg
MG Montego, 6J x 15 inch wheel with no tyre: weight = 1 st 3 lbs = 17 lbs = 7•7 kg
Using the weight of the tyreless MG Maestro 5½J x 15 inch wheel, one can estimate the weights of the Michelin & Maxxis 185/55 R15 tyres as follows:
Michelin MXV2, 185/55 R15 tyre (circa 2½ mm tread): weight = 13•6 kg – 7•0 kg = 6•6 kg
Cheng Shin Maxxis, 185/55 R15 tyre (circa 6~7 mm tread): weight = 15•4 kg – 7•0 kg = 8•4 kg
Unless I can persuade the local post office to let me use their parcel scales, that’s the best I can do for the moment! If I had still been working at Celcon’s R & D laboratory (mid-1984 to early-1988), I could have used the large scale 1•5 m x 1•5 m, digital platform balance, on which I used to weigh 2 m x 2 m masonry wall samples in RSJ (i.e. rolled steel joist) frames, of up to 2 tonnes, to a precision of ± 0•01 kg.
If at some time in the future, Steve Boitoult weighs his 6 x 15 inch MG-F 6-spoke alloy wheels with Ling Long 185/55 R15 tyre & Toyo Proxes 185/60 R15 tyre, we shall have a further basis for weight comparison. I would expect a new 185/60 R15 tyre to be heavier on average than a new 185/55 R15 tyre, but it would be interesting to know by how much; bearing in mind that the Ling Long tyres are part-worn. I envisage that the weight-difference between a new 185/65 R15 and a new185/55 R15 tyre, would be slightly more than twice the weight-difference between a 185/60 R15 and 185/55 R15 tyre, owing to the additional 5% of 185 mm increase in sidewall height and the slightly larger tyre-tread circumference.
Browsing through some of the archived files on my computer, pertaining to wheels & tyres, I discovered a file downloaded from the Internet on 7th November 2016, entitled “CEC TYRE DATABASE 195 MEANS”, which lists in ascending order of mean tyre-weight, 76 different tyre brands & models, of size
195/65 R15 (i.e. the next size up from
185/65 R15); the lightest of which was said to be 9•27 lbs (i.e. 4•206 kg) and the heaviest was 12•44 lbs (i.e. 5•644 kg), of which the heaviest is 34•2% more than the lightest. It also listed details of UTQG Temperature, UTQG Traction, UTQG Treadwear & speed ratings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_T ... ty_Grading
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_T ... #Treadwear
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_T ... g#Traction
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_T ... emperature
https://www.prioritytire.com/blog/tire- ... ting-utqg/
barrystiretech.com/rrandfe2.html
https://www.energy.ca.gov/transportatio ... 0MEANS.doc
According to the information given in the following Oponeo wheel & tyre supplier’s blog, typical weights of 185/70 R13 tyres are circa 7•0~7•2 kg; implying that the Dolomite Sprint wheels weigh circa 5•5~5•7 kg (i.e. 12•7 kg – 7•0~7•2 kg), or maybe a little less, given that the aforementioned Firestone S211,
185/70 R13 tyre was part-worn.
https://www.oponeo.co.uk/blog/how-much- ... tyre-weigh
« 185/70 R13 between 7•0 and 7•2 kg »
« 175/65 R14 between 6•5 and 7•2 kg »
« 195/65 R15 between 8•2 and 9 kg »
The 8•2~9 kg weight range for the
195/65 R15 size tyres, cited in the Oponeo wheel & tyre supplier’s blog, differs markedly from the circa 4•2~5•6 kg, range that is cited in the “CEC TYRE DATABASE 195 MEANS” document. This leaves one wondering what to believe!?!
Out of idle curiosity, I also decided to weigh some of the other wheel & tyre combinations that I have, associated with my 1973 VW Type 2 motor-caravan upgrade projects, which include the following:
Set of six factory-standard, 1971~79 VW Type 2, 5½ x 14 inch steel-wheels (5 x 112 mm PCD | 39 mm wheel-offset | circa 66•6 mm scalloped non-circular centre-bore) & 185 SR14 Reinforced tyres [325•8 mm predicted external radius].
Set of four (I need another two spares) 2002/03 Mercedes C-Class 7 x 16 inch alloy-wheels (5 x 112 mm PCD | 37 mm wheel-offset | 66•6 mm centre-bore) with the “original” 205/55 R16 tyres [315•9 mm predicted external radius]
Pair of Vauxhall Movano and/or Renault Master, ? x 16 inch steel-wheels (5 x 130 mm PCD by measurement & calculation| 66½ ± ½ mm wheel-offset by measurement & calculation| | 89 mm centre-bore by measurement) with 215/65 R16C commercial-van tyres [342•9 mm predicted external radius] of different brands.
Their weights, determined using the same Vanguard bathroom scales, as was used for the MG 2000 Maestro & MG 2000 Montego wheels & tyres are as follows:
VW Type 2, 5½ x 14 inch steel-wheel & Michelin XZX, 185 SR14 Reinforced (95½ load-index = maximum load of 1540 lbs or 698•7 kg @ 40 psi | circa 7 mm tread-depth): weight = 2 st 12½ lbs = 40½ lbs = 18•4 kg
Mercedes C-Class, 7 x 16 inch alloy-wheel & Continental Premium Contact 2, 205/55 R16, 91V @ 51 psi (circa 3 mm tread-depth): weight = 2 st 8 lbs = 36 lbs = 16•3 kg
Vauxhall Movano, ? x 16 inch (thought to be 6 x 16 inch) steel-wheel & Continental Vanco-6, 215/65 R16C, 106/104T @ 55 psi (circa 3~4 mm tread-depth): weight = 3 st 9½ lbs = 51½ lbs = 23•4 kg
Vauxhall Movano, ? x 16 inch (thought to be 6 x 16 inch) steel-wheel & Michelin Agilis 81, 215/65 R16C, 109/107R @ 69 psi (circa 3~4 mm tread-depth): weight = 3 st 12½ lbs = 54½ lbs = 24•7 kg [slightly less than a half-hundredweight]
A weight difference of more than 7 kg between a 16 inch alloy-wheel & 205/55 R16 tyre and a 16 inch steel-wheel & 215/65 R16C tyre is considerable, but I wonder how much of this is accounted for by the weight differences between the 16 inch steel and alloy wheels!?!
If I manage to successfully employ the off-road, overland expedition technique, for removing & fitting tyres, using a lifting-jack & tyre-levers, I shall find out in due course! I shudder to think how much an HGV lorry wheel & tyre would weigh; probably heavier than I could lift!
I salvaged the two discarded Vauxhall Movano and/or Renault Master, 16 inch steel-wheels & 215/65 R16C commercial-van tyres, which I found locally in a waste-skip (at a closed, privately-run, high-dependency medical unit, where I also found a few high-visibility waistcoats, two full-length ambulance-stretcher mattresses and a lot of carpet tiles), with a view to trial-fitting the
ZERO-COST tyres on the 7 x 16 inch Mercedes C-Class alloy wheels, so that I can check whether there might be any interference problems, when fitted to the 1973 VW Type 2 motor-caravan. If they’re okay, I can keep them both as my emergency spares.
https://www.wheel-size.com/size/vauxhall/movano/
https://www.wheel-size.com/size/renault/master/
Various model-years & models, of Vauxhall Movano & Renault Master vans, appear to have been equipped with 6J x 16 inch steel wheels (130 mm PCD | 89•1 mm centre-bore | 66 mm wheel-offset), fitted with either 215/65 R16C or 225/65 R16C tyres; both of which seemed rather wide for a 6 inch wide wheel, but according to the information at the following link, 6 inches & 6½ inches are the
minimum &
standard wheel-rim-widths for both tyre sizes. Also given, are recommended wheel sizes for 205/55 R16 tyres, as fitted to the 2002/03 Mercedes C-Class saloon’s 7 x 16 inch alloy wheels.
http://www.tyresizecalculator.com/tyre- ... calculator
Tyres: 205/55 R16 => Wheels: 16 x 5½ minimum | 16 x 6½ standard | 16 x 7½ maximum
Tyres: 215/65 R16 => Wheels: 16 x 6 minimum | 16 x 6½ standard | 16 x 7½ maximum
Tyres: 225/65 R16 => Wheels: 16 x 6 minimum | 16 x 6½ standard | 16 x 8 maximum
Recommended wheel sizes for 185/80 R14 tyres (C or Reinforced), that were the factory-standard radial-ply tyre option for the 1973 VW Type 2 are also given; 7.00 x 14 8PR cross-ply tyres being the norm for all models, except the fire-truck and deluxe microbus! The 1971~79 VW Type 2s were factory-fitted with 5½ J x 14 inch steel wheels, whose size is midway between the
standard &
maximum wheel-rim widths.
http://www.tyresizecalculator.com/tyre- ... calculator
Tyres: 185/80 R14 => Wheels: 14 x 4½ minimum | 14 x 5 standard | 14 x 6 maximum
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