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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2022 7:06 pm 
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Although the 185/55 R15 tyres that came on my first set of two MG 2000 Maestro 5½J x 15 inch wheels have the same nominal section-width (i.e. 185 mm) as the 185/70 R13 tyres on my Triumph Dolomite Sprint 5½J x 13 inch wheels, the actual installed tyre section-widths (as measured by me using a tape measure in conjunction with a builder’s long spirit level as a straight edge) proved to be noticeably different!

Measuring the section-widths of one of the Firestone S211, 185/70 R13 85T tyres (made in France & South Africa) on the Dolomite Sprint wheels, plus the Michelin MXV2, 185/55 R15 81V tyre (made in West Germany) and Cheng Shin Maxxis MA-551, 185/55 R15 82V tyre (made in PRC – Peoples’ Republic of China; aka Taiwan or Formosa), on the MG Maestro wheels, produced the following results:

Firestone S211, 185/70 R13 – Installed tyre section-width = 189¼ ± ¼ mm

Michelin MXV2, 185/55 R15 – Installed tyre section-width = 189¾ ± ¼ mm

Cheng Shin Maxxis MA-551 185/55 R15 – Installed tyre section-width = 193¼ ± ¼ mm

So far, I have had extremely limited personal observational experience, of variation in installed tyre section-widths, associated with either installation on different wheel-widths, or production variation in tyres of different brands, having the same nominal tyre size. I had read many years ago, that one might expect significant variation between different tyre brands, and that this was something of which to be wary when retro-fitting wider wheels & tyres to one’s car!

It would be interesting to have a census of Triumph owners, to gain a more in-depth perspective of this variation, as it applies to the various tyre sizes and manufacturers’ brands, that have been fitted to the different sizes of steel or alloy wheels (e.g. 4 x 13 inch, 4½ x 13 inch, 5 x 13 inch, 5½ x 13 inch, 5½ x 14 inch, 5½ x 15 inch & 6 x 15 inch, plus possibly some others) that have been used.

I expect there to be noticeable variation in installed section-width of the same sized tyre, of different manufacturers’ brands, on the same sized wheel.

I expect there to be noticeable variation in installed section-width of the same sized tyre, of the same manufacturer’s brand, on wheels of different sizes.

To measure the installed section-width of the tyres, one simply needs to lay the wheels with tyres installed, on a flat horizontal surface (i.e. level floor, table or workbench), place a straight-edge over the wheel-centre, across the tyre’s side walls on opposite sides, and measure down from the bottom of the straight-edge to the flat surface using a cm & mm tape measure or ruler, at both ends of the straight-edge. Repeat the process at least once; preferably with the straight-edge positioned at right-angles to the original position. Record the average measurement and the degree of variation in measurements.

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Nigel A. Skeet

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Upgraded 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 (Toledo / Dolomite HL / Sprint hybrid)

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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2022 7:14 pm 
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The Effect of Wide Tyres on Narrow Wheels and Narrow Tyres on Wide Wheels

Rim Width Range

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/ ... techid=198

« Because tires have flexible sidewalls, a single tire size will fit on a variety of rim widths. A tire's rim width range identifies the narrowest to the widest rim widths upon which the tire is designed to be mounted during its tens-of-thousands of miles and years of service. »

« The width of the rim will influence the width of the tire. A tire mounted on a narrow rim would be "narrower" than if the same size tire was mounted on a wide rim. »

« Note: Because the overall diameter of a steel-belted radial is essentially determined by the steel belts, there is little, if any, change to the overall diameter of the tire due to differences in rim width. »

« The industry rule of thumb is that for every 1/2" change in rim width, the tire's section width will correspondingly change by approximately 2/10". »

« For example, a tire in the P205/60R15 size is measured on a 6.0" wide wheel and this size tire has an approved rim width range from 5.5" to 7.5" wide. The tire has a section width of 8.23" (209 mm) when mounted on a 6.0" wide wheel. If that tire were mounted on all of the rims within its range, the tire's approximate section width would change as follows: »

Difference from - - - - - - Rim - - - - - - - Approximate Tire
Measuring Rim - - - - - - Width - - - - - - Section Width

0.5" narrower - - - - - - - 5.5" - - - - - - - 8.03"
Measuring Rim - - - - - - 6.0" - - - - - - - 8.23"
0.5" wider - - - - - - - - - 6.5" - - - - - - - 8.43"
1.0" wider - - - - - - - - - 7.0" - - - - - - - 8.63"
1.5" wider - - - - - - - - - 7.5" - - - - - - - 8.83"

« Because of the different wheel widths used in the above example, there is an 8/10" projected difference in tire section width when comparing a tire mounted on the narrowest rim to the widest rim within its range. This may affect fender-well and frame clearances when selecting optional aftermarket wheel and tire packages. »

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Nigel A. Skeet

Independent tutor of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering, for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.

https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=308177758

Upgraded 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 (Toledo / Dolomite HL / Sprint hybrid)

Onetime member + magazine editor & technical editor of Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club


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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2022 10:55 pm 
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Quote:
Three Wheels on a Four-Wheeled Car!?!
Quote:
The original plan for the Dolomega was to retain the original Sprint wheels to enhance the "sleeper look". This went out the window fairly quickly as it only came with 3 Sprint rims, all in awful condition.

I don’t think I have ever seen a car being driven on only three wheels before, with the possible exception of a circa 1960s vintage Citroën DS, whose then revolutionary suspension system made this possible! :shock: :?

Are you implying that the car came fitted with a set of four or five 4½ x 13 inch steel wheels & 155 SR13 standard-profile tyres, but was also supplied with an incomplete set of only three, rather than a complete set of five 5½ x 13 inch Dolomite Sprint alloy wheels!?! After all, it would have been rather strange to acquire a car which had only three wheels in total!

When my father bought the 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 in May 1975, it came equipped with five 5½ x 13 inch Cosmic alloy wheels, which in July 1996, I swopped for a set of five 5½ x 13 inch Dolomite Sprint alloy wheels; that in due course will be swopped for a set of five 5½ x 13 inch MG 2000 Maestro alloy wheels, with two 5½ x 13 inch MG 2000 Maestro alloy wheels in reserve, in case any get damaged by our now atrocious potholed roads, which are unlikely to be adequately repaired or resurfaced any time soon.

Given that the Triumph Dolomite Sprint has been obsolete for more than 40 years, I would think it prudent for anyone whose Triumph Toledo or Dolomite is equipped with Dolomite Sprint wheels, to have at least one additional spare, in case one of the wheels is damaged in service, or to enable tyre rotation if one uses modern directional tyres.

Spare Tyre “Provision” when Substituting Non-Standard Wheels & Tyres
Quote:
Just as an aside really and because I did it in the last few days, i've been having a fiddle with tyre sizes on SWMBO's Picasso which comes as standard with a 6x15 alloy wheel shod with 185/65/15s.

The fiddling came about largely because she experienced a road debris induced blowout on the n/s/r tyre last Sunday, right in the middle of the roadworks on the M5/M4 junction. The tyre was scrap with a 2" cut in the tread, fortunately (or more precisely, because I pay attention to such things) the spare tyre possessed both tread and air and the thread that lifts the underfloor spare into position was free and easy to use.
From your account of events, I surmise that the 185/65 R15 tyre with “2 inch cut in the tread” on the Citroën Picasso, would have been unserviceable and/or extremely hazardous over any distance, even with the use of high-pressure aerosol injected sealant, that now seems to be the modern replacement option, for even the less than ideal, limited-service, space-saver, spare-wheel & tyre combination!?!

https://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/sa ... d-sealants

https://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/sa ... are-wheels

That being the case, I presume you would not wish to risk becoming stranded for wont of a spare wheel & tyre, if your Triumph Dolomite “Dolomega” were to suffer a similar fate, owing to the lack of a spare, six-spoke 6 x 15 inch MG-F alloy wheel & 185/60 R15 tyre or at least a “space-saver” spare wheel & tyre of appropriate external radius and circumference, with compatible wheel nuts, to enable one to drive home.

If one chose to have a “space-saver” spare wheel & tyre, there is the challenge of finding a suitable wheel & tyre combination of appropriate external radius and circumference (about 3•2% larger than a 155/82 R13 tyre), that would be lighter and take up less space (i.e. be narrower; having a tyre of smaller installed section-width) in the spare-wheel well than a six-spoke 6 x 15 inch MG-F alloy wheel & 185/60 R15 tyre.

185/60 R15 – overall external circumference = 1894•3 mm (3•18% larger than 155/82 R13)

155 R13 => 155/82 R13 – overall external circumference = 1835•9 mm

165 R13 => 165/82 R13 – overall external circumference = 1866•7 mm (1•68% larger than 155/82 R13)

175/65 R14 – overall external circumference = 1831•8 mm (0•22% smaller than 155/82 R13) [MG-F & MG-TF space saver spare]

185/65 R14 – overall external circumference = 1872•7 mm (3•14% larger than 155/82 R13)

175/70 R14 – overall external circumference = 1886•8 mm (2•77% larger than 155/82 R13)

185/70 R14 – overall external circumference = 1930•8 mm (5•17% larger than 155/82 R13)

155 R14 => 155/82 R14 – overall external circumference = 1896•3 mm (3•29% larger than 155/82 R13)

135/80 R15 – overall external circumference = 1875•5 mm (2•16% larger than 155/82 R13) [used on Citroën 2CV I think!?!]

155/70 R15 – overall external circumference = 1878•7 mm (2•33% larger than 155/82 R13)

165/70 R15 – overall external circumference = 1922•7 mm (4•73% larger than 155/82 R13)

Having the same nominal 185 mm section-width, a 185/65 R14 tyre would offer little if any advantage and a 175 mm section-width, a 175/70 R14 tyre wouldn’t be much better, but a standard-profile 155 R14 (i.e. 155/80 R14 or 155/82 R14) tyre, if it and a suitably sized wheel (e.g. 14 x 4 inch, 14 x 4½ inch or 14 x 5 inch) exists, would appear to be an almost ideal, well matched option. Whether a suitably narrow 14 inch wheel from an Austin-Rover Maestro or Montego exists, I don’t yet know.

http://www.wheel-size.com/size/

Range of Wheel Sizes for Given Tyre Sizes

http://www.tyresizecalculator.com/tyre- ... calculator

Range of Tyre Sizes on Given Wheel Sizes

http://www.tyresizecalculator.com/tyre- ... calculator
The Sprint as bought (spares or repair) came to me, not running, rust up to the door handles and fitted with 3 peeling and corroded Sprint alloys (one painted red) and shod with split, cracked and non airtight 175/70/13s, a single, possibly 1850, steel wheel (had an early 1850 stainless hubcap) with a bald 155/13 on it and no spare. Since I only paid £375 for the whole car, I didn't feel justified in whining about the wheels!

The Picasso had on board a tin of Finilec instant puncture repair, in anticipation of just this circumstance arising. Not supplied by Citroen, who had supplied a full sized spare wheel and tools to replace it (if illogically stored ones!) but by me, I keep one in all my cars, because a puncture will always occur when you are a) in your best suit, b) on the motorway (probably in roadworks or somewhere equally nasty) and c) it will be pouring with rain! Finilec is a quick fix, though the tyre may not be much use afterwards. My son in law applied the Finilec but unfortunately it was not up to sealing the amount of damage done to the tyre, so had to resort to more primitive and time consuming solutions.

The spare wheel on the Dolomega is a 5.5x14 MGF steel spare wheel shod with a 185/65/14 standard, non directional, Uniroyal tyre. It was bought soon after I got the JBW rims as it was a near perfect match for those rims and only cost me £20, complete with a slightly old but completely unused tyre. Whilst it would be legally safe to use at any speed when fitted with 3 of the John Brown wheels, using it with 3 15" MGF wheels relegate it to "emergency" status (as indeed it would, if used on an MGF) where I will be restricted to 55mph whilst it is on the car. Not too high a price to pay, I think! I don't have a problem with wheel nut compatibilty as all 3 wheel types, the JBW alloys, MGF15" alloys and the steel 14" spare wheel all use 60 degree tapered steel nuts.

I would recommend this MGF steel spare to you, to use in conjunction with your Maestro "lattice" rims, it's readily available, fits comfortably under Dolomite/Toledo rear arches and also fits readily in the spare wheel well in the boot. I was even able, with a bit of tugging, to get the spare wheel hold down webbing strap to go on.

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:00 pm 
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Identifying Possible Candidate Spacer-Saver Spare Wheels

Apart from a few months during 1981, when in mid-May and then a few months later, I replaced piecemeal, the set of five 6~6½ year old 175 SR13 Uniroyal Rallye 180 tyres whose tread was delaminating after less than 20,000 miles, I have always had a complete set of five matching 5½ x 13 inch alloy wheels & tyres [either standard-profile 175/80 R13 or low-profile 185/70 R13] since May 1975, unlike many people who seem to fit just four matching alloy wheels & tyres, and retain a single factory-standard 4 x13 inch or 4½ x 13 inch steel wheel & 155 SR13 tyre as an emergency spare, in the boot’s spare-wheel well; along with a compatible set of wheel-nuts.

Whilst a Triumph Toledo or Dolomite still retains the original-specification 3/8-inch (i.e. 9•525 mm) UNF wheel-fixing studs, this is still a practical option whilst the substitute wheel & tyre combination has virtually the same external radius & circumference. However, if one substitutes M12 x 1•5 mm wheel-fixing studs & matching wheel-nuts with floating conical washers, for use with MG-F, MG-TF, MG Maestro or MG Montego alloy wheels, then it’s debatable whether one could find compatible wheel-nuts for use with the original emergency-spare Toledo or Dolomite steel wheel; assuming it was practical and safe to enlarge the four wheel-fixing holes in the wheel.

Initially, one might consider using an MG-F or MG-TF 5½ x 14 inch steel space-saver spare wheel, with associated 175/65 R14 tyre, but this has the disadvantage of having virtually the same section-width as my Toledo’s “original” 175 SR13 tyres on 5½ x 13 inch Cosmic alloy wheels, which would have been significantly wider than the factory-fitted 155 SR13 tyres on 4 x13 inch steel wheels and the shaped. The hardboard spare-wheel cover over the spare 5½ x 13 inch Cosmic alloy wheel & 175 SR13 tyre, sat circa 3/8 inches above the top of the petrol tank; creating a two-tier platform for luggage, on two slightly different levels.

I don’t know whether the various smaller-engined Austin-Rover Maestro or Montego car models, with relatively narrow 13 inch steel wheels & tyres, were also fitted with M12 x 1•5 mm wheel-fixing studs, but if so it might be possible to use one of these with associated wheel-nuts, as an emergency space-saver spare-wheel for a Triumph Toledo or Dolomite equipped with MG alloy wheels & 185/55 R15 tyres. However, if 185/60 R15 or 185/65 R15 tyres were being used, then a larger-diameter space-saver spare wheel (i.e. 14 or 15 inches diameter, if available!?!) would probably be more appropriate.

https://www.ultimatespecs.com/car-specs ... go-20.html

Quote:
If one chose to have a “space-saver” spare wheel & tyre, there is the challenge of finding a suitable wheel & tyre combination of appropriate external radius and circumference (about 3•2% larger than a 155/82 R13 tyre), that would be lighter and take up less space (i.e. be narrower; having a tyre of smaller installed section-width) in the spare-wheel well than a six-spoke 6 x 15 inch MG-F alloy wheel & 185/60 R15 tyre.

155 R14 => 155/82 R14 – overall external circumference = 1896•3 mm (3•29% larger than 155/82 R13)

135/80 R15 – overall external circumference = 1875•5 mm (2•16% larger than 155/82 R13) [used on Citroën 2CV I think!?!]

As I correctly surmised, the required tyre size for the Citroën 2CV which ceased manufacture in Portugal sometime in the early-1990s (still equipped with a backup engine starting handle!) is indeed equipped with 135/80 R15 tyres as I surmised, and tyres of this size are still available; albeit with a relatively low load index of circa 72 or 73, but not so low asking prices which ranged from circa €59 to €110 each, for Nankang, Maxxis & Michelin brands in ascending order of cost. Research on British E-bay, indicates that a temporary-service T135/80 R15 tyre, is used on the space-saver spare wheel for the 2000~07 Nissan Almera.

https://www.burton2cvparts.com/rolling- ... nd%20tyres

Contrary to my expectations, tyres of size 185 R14 (i.e. traditionally of 82% aspect ratio, but otherwise labelled as 185/80 R14) are available, but with extremely limited choice of brands and tread patterns. The most widely available tyre of this size, appears to be the Taiwanese-made, Nankang Econex NA-1, 155/80 R14 81T, with asymmetric tread pattern, variously priced at somewhere in the range of £45 to £55 each.

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/rshop/tyre/Na ... T/R-319706

https://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre/nankang-e ... #389052711

https://www.blackcircles.com/catalogue/ ... e=36336046

https://www.roundtriptyres.co.uk/tyres/ ... tyres.html

Black Circles also offer an old-style (circa 1960s I suspect) Michelin X, 155/80 R14 80T tyre

https://www.blackcircles.com/catalogue/ ... e=38436848

Searching on British E-bay, I also found a set of three “new” Michelin MX, 155 R14 80S tyres, for which the asking price was in excess of £300.

Although an extremely limited choice of 155/80 R14 tyres are presently available, the major challenge will be to find a compatible 14 inch steel wheel of suitable width (i.e. in the minimum to maximum range of 4 inches to 5 inches, but ideally 4½ inches) with a PCD of 4 x 3¾ inches (i.e. 4 x 95•25 mm).

The MG-F & MG-TF space-saver, steel spare-wheel [normally fitted with 175/65 R14 tyre] and Austin-Rover 2000 Montego steel road-wheels [normally fitted with 185/65 R14 tyre] are both of 5½ x 14 inch size, so it’s debatable whether it would be appropriate to substitute 155/80 R14 tyres on these relatively wide wheels!?!

Quote:
I don’t trust the wheel specifications that are published on various Internet websites, but it might be worth investigating 2000~2004 Lotus Exige S1 wheels, which are said to have a 95•25 mm (i.e. 3¾ inch) PCD and 38 mm wheel-offset, with a 56•6 mm centre-bore; which I discovered a few years ago, when researching possible substitute wheels for my 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 “HL Special”.

http://www.wheel-fitment.com/car/Lotus/

http://www.wheel-fitment.com/car/Lotus/ ... 2004).html

https://tireswheels.org/lotus/

https://tireswheels.org/lotus-exige-s1-2000-2004/

https://www.pirelli.com/tyres/en-gb/car ... exige/2004

Recalling that the 2000~2004 Lotus Exige S1 is reputed to have road-wheels with a 3¾ inch (i.e. 95•25 mm) PCD, 38 mm wheel-offset and a 56•6 mm centre-bore, I wondered whether this car might also have been equipped with a suitably narrow space-saver spare-wheel, but so far I have discovered nothing!

If nothing more suitable comes to light, one could always contemplate using the wheel-centre with 3¾ inch (i.e. 95•25 mm) PCD wheel-fixing holes from one wheel, and graft it by welding into a suitably narrow, 14 inch, 15 inch or larger diameter wheel from another donor car (e,g. VW Type 1 Beetle) or an existing special space-saver steel spare-wheel whose existing PCD was incompatible.

https://www.komwheel.com/what-is-a-spac ... re-wheel-a

https://www.komwheel.com/understanding- ... -tyre-size

_________________
Regards.

Nigel A. Skeet

Independent tutor of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering, for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.

https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=308177758

Upgraded 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 (Toledo / Dolomite HL / Sprint hybrid)

Onetime member + magazine editor & technical editor of Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:49 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:12 pm
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Location: Highley, Shropshire
I don't have the wheel nut problems you do, as both the Carledo and the Dolomega run on 7/16" unf studs. Nuts for these are relatively easily and inexpensively (16 Chromed cap nuts for £24) available via ebay marketed for MkI Escort. These are eminently usable with all 3 types of wheel I have or will use.

However, I am aware that 3/8" studs create a much bigger problem, especially with the MGF alloys which have stud holes that are much larger than necessary, so big in fact, that a standard Toledo's 11/16" AF wheel nut will go right through! My solution to this, is to upgrade the studs (as I did on the Carledo) anything is better than the pitiful 3/8" studs, especially if, like me, a lot more power is in prospect.

I also don't share your percieved problem with the boot board that covers the spare wheel not fitting down flush over a 5.5" rim and whatever tyre. Every Sprint ever built is like this, because the body was designed to accomodate a 4.5" wide wheel several years before the Sprint was launched with the wider wheels. Rather than fix the error which would at least have meant a retool of the boot floor panel (or a deeper tank, which might have been a better solution), the accountants at Triumph chose to ignore it, on the basis that owners would either a) not notice, or b) not mind if they did. Their judgement of their target market seems to have been largely correct. You are one of only 3 people that i've heard even mention it!

I'll stick with my cheap and cheerful MGF steel spare and live with the board height discrepancy!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2022 6:29 pm 
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Quote:
The spare wheel on the Dolomega is a 5.5 x 14 MGF steel spare wheel shod with a 185/65/14 standard, non directional, Uniroyal tyre. It was bought soon after I got the JBW rims as it was a near perfect match for those rims and only cost me £20, complete with a slightly old but completely unused tyre. Whilst it would be legally safe to use at any speed when fitted with 3 of the John Brown wheels, using it with 3 15" MGF wheels relegate it to "emergency" status (as indeed it would, if used on an MGF) where I will be restricted to 55 mph whilst it is on the car. Not too high a price to pay, I think! I don't have a problem with wheel nut compatibilty as all 3 wheel types, the JBW alloys, MGF15" alloys and the steel 14" spare wheel all use 60 degree tapered steel nuts.

I would recommend this MGF steel spare to you, to use in conjunction with your Maestro "lattice" rims, it's readily available, fits comfortably under Dolomite/Toledo rear arches and also fits readily in the spare wheel well in the boot. I was even able, with a bit of tugging, to get the spare wheel hold down webbing strap to go on.
Having SEVEN (i.e. I purchased sets of two & five) matching 5½ x 15 inch MG 2000 Maestro cross-lattice alloy wheels (31 mm wheel-offset) already, there is little or no incentive for me to have a non-matching, temporary-use, spare wheel & tyre. However, it’s useful to have all of one’s road-wheels & spare-wheels being compatible with just one type of wheel-nut!

With 185/60 R15 tyres on your 6 x 15 inch MG-F alloy wheels, you could conceivably use a 5½ x 14 inch MG-F space-saver steel spare-wheel, with a second-hand 185/65 R14 tyre as your spare in the boot, which is of virtually the same external radius & circumference, but if you are going to have such a wide spare wheel, you might just as well have a matching spare 6 x 15 inch MG-F alloy wheel (six-square-spoke variety) & 185/60 R15 tyre in my opinion, and get full use out of all five tyres, be subject to no non-standard spare-wheel speed restrictions and avoid the possibility of associated weird steering & handling characteristics.

Given that 6 x 15 inch MG-F & MG-TF alloy wheels seem to come only in sets of four, sourcing just a single matching wheel, might be significantly less easy than sourcing a single 5½ x 14 inch MG-F space-saver steel spare-wheel. This again, is another of the advantages of the 6 x 15 inch MG 2000 Montego alloy wheels (28 mm offset) and 5½ x 15 inch MG 2000 Maestro alloy wheels (31 mm offset) which normally come in matching sets of five.

It’s debatable whether a 185/65 R14 tyre on a 5½ x 14 inch MG-F space-saver steel spare-wheel, would be significantly narrower than a 185/55 R15, 185/60 R15 or 185/65 R15 tyre on a 5½ x 15 inch MG Maestro alloy wheel. If MG were going to fit a temporary-use, space-saver spare wheel & tyre with a 50 mph speed restriction, to the MG-F & MG-TF, in conjunction with the 6 x 15 inch alloy wheels, fitted with the 185/55 R15 & 205/50 R15 tyres, I am surprised they didn’t use a much more slender steel wheel & tyre; which seems to have been the trend this century!?!

205/50 R15 – overall external circumference = 1841•0 mm (0•28% larger than 155/82 R13)

185/55 R15 – overall external circumference = 1836•2 mm (0•02% smaller than 155/82 R13)

175/65 R14 – overall external circumference = 1831•8 mm (0•22% smaller than 155/82 R13) [MG-F & MG-TF space saver spare-wheel & tyre]

165/70 R14 – overall external circumference = 1842•9 mm (0•38% larger than 155/82 R13)

185/60 R15 – overall external circumference = 1894•3 mm (3•18% larger than 155/82 R13)

185/65 R14 – overall external circumference = 1872•7 mm (3•14% larger than 155/82 R13) [Austin-Rover Montego 2000 standard road-wheels & tyres]

155 R14 => 155/82 R14 – overall external circumference = 1896•3 mm (3•29% larger than 155/82 R13)

185/65 R15 – overall external circumference = 1952•5 mm (6•35% larger than 155/82 R13)

Although a 185/65 R14 tyre’s external radius & circumference closely matches that of the 185/60 R15 tyres, it would be slightly more than 3% smaller and larger than the 185/65 R15 and 185/55 R15 tyres respectively, for which it would not be a very compatible replacement and unsuitable for general long-term use. Besides that, the 185/65 R14 spare tyre would hardly if ever get used, unlike an identical spare tyre, which would be a waste of money and material resources.

As I might have previously commented elsewhere, the external radius & circumference of a tyre decreases by about 2%, from circa 7~8 mm tread-depth when new, to a minimum legal tread-depth of 1•6 mm (i.e. 1/16-inch). This is particularly important on four-wheel drive vehicles for which “transmission wind-up” is a potential problem, if one uses tyres of significantly differing circumference! However, for ordinary two-wheel drive vehicles like ours, having tyres of different tread-compound, tread-pattern and/or tread-depth on the same “axle”, can potentially introduce anomalies in handling characteristics under some conditions, so it’s preferable to have identical road-tyres & spare-tyres of the same tread depth.

If at some time in the future, only directional-tread tyres become readily available for the 5½ x 15 inch MG 2000 Maestro cross-lattice style alloy wheels, I might resort to having two spare 5½ x 15 inch MG Maestro cross-lattice alloy wheels & tyres (of which I would carry just one in the boot); rotating the sets of three right-handed & three left-handed tyres to even out tyre-wear and change complete sets of six tyres. This is something I shall resume doing with the 1973 VW “1600” Type 2 Westfalia Continental trans-continental touring motor-caravan’s two spare wheels & tyres, of which I have dedicated carrying facilities for both, when on long journeys, thousands of miles away from home.

The original elastic hold-down strap for the Triumph Toledo’s factory-supplied 4 x 13 inch steel spare-wheel & 155 SR13 tyre (which I never had!) was too short for the “original” 5½ x 13 inch Cosmic alloy spare-wheel & 175 SR13, Uniroyal Rallye 180 tyre, but I later managed to salvage a longer one from a Dolomite Sprint at the car breaker’s yard where I got my front & rear suspension anti-roll bars in 1982, which was just right for this larger wheel & tyre, as well as the much later substituted 185/70 R13 tyre on this wheel.

I suspect the Dolomite Sprint spare-wheel strap will probably also fit the 5½ x 15 inch MG 2000 Maestro cross-lattice spare-wheel with either 185/55 R15, 185/60 R16 or 185/65 R15 tyres, the former of which already fits easily in my spare-wheel well with wiggle room to spare. The 175 SR13 (i.e. relabelled 175/80 R13) tyres had sufficient lateral clearance in the spare-wheel well, so 185/65 R15 tyres will probably fit in there without any difficulty!

_________________
Regards.

Nigel A. Skeet

Independent tutor of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering, for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.

https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=308177758

Upgraded 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 (Toledo / Dolomite HL / Sprint hybrid)

Onetime member + magazine editor & technical editor of Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club


Last edited by naskeet on Sat Jun 04, 2022 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2022 6:40 pm 
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The Storage Advantages of 15-Inch Spare Wheels

One overlooked advantage of having a 15 inch spare wheel versus a 13 inch spare wheel in the boot, is that there is about 33% more storage space inside the wheel, to carry spares, tools & emergency equipment; much of which is a legal requirement in many European countries, as I have long known from my past motor-caravan touring holidays there, but something I have long regarded as essential for motoring in Great Britain too; having always carried a single hazard warning triangle and high-visibility waistcoat in the car since the early-1980s!

Several years ago, in a local “bankrupt & end-of-line stock” shop, I bought for a modest £5, a matching pair of new hazard-warning triangles, in an “MG-Rover” embossed storage case, which I would always carry in the car, along with other emergency equipment such as the following:

• Four high-visibility waistcoats; NOT stored in the boot [one each for all occupants, stored within reach – mandatory in some European countries | stored on the front parcel-shelf or in the glove-box & magazine-pockets behind the backrests of the substituted Dolomite HL front seats];
• Paddy Hopkirk “Explosafe” 5-litre petrol can [made with low-density foamed-aluminium filling, like racing-car fuel tanks] containing fuel [not permitted in Germany!];
• Ultra-heavy-duty, multi-filament copper, 2 metre long battery jump cables [believed to be for commercial vehicles, but superb for cars!];
• Lifting-jack & wheel-brace;
• 4~5 metre long tow-rope;
• 1½ kg fire extinguisher.

At least some of these will reside inside my 5½ x 15 inch MG 2000 Maestro alloy spare wheel in the boot; which will certainly include the battery jump cables and spare V-belt (for alternator & water-pump), plus probably some smaller items. Historically, the single scissor lifting-jack & wheel-brace, has always resided adjacent to the spare-wheel’s outboard tyre-tread, below the hardboard cover.

Having a 15-inch spare wheel rather than a 13-inch spare wheel, there is less support for the flimsy hardboard cover and any heavy luggage such as a Volkswagen air-cooled engine, several dense concrete-aggregate building blocks or paving slabs, which I have carried in the past; one of the practical advantages of the Toledo boot versus the Dolomite boot!

With this in mind, it is my intention to fabricate a stepped circular wheel-lid from some pre-used 20 mm thick plywood board, that I found discarded in a local waste-skip; although thinner plywood of 10~15 mm thickness might be more than adequate, if I find some in the meantime. Whilst I’m about it, I might even fabricate a protective, padded plywood board, to cover the steel petrol tank and level-up the boot floor at the same time!

Some 25 mm strap bridges, fitted in strategic positions around the boot-space, to enable luggage to be strapped in place, might not go amiss either. After all, BLMC-Triumph gave some passing thought to such matters, when they made provision for the elasticated spare-wheel retaining strap!

Ideally, I want to machine the plywood with my router, so that the plywood sits snugly on & inside the rim of the aluminium wheel and its upper surface is level with the tyre’s sidewall, providing the most consistent, level platform on which to rest the shaped hardboard cover. I have yet to determine, how best to accommodate any balance weights, that might be fitted to the inboard rims of the various wheels in the set, whose positions will be rotated; but this is largely dependent upon whether balance weights are typically fitted in more than one location on each inboard rim.

The MG Maestro & Montego “15 inch” lattice-style wheels’ relevant dimensions:

Wheel outer diameter = 415 mm = 16-5/16 inches

Wheel lip diameter = 402 mm = 15-13/16 inches

Wheel inner diameter = 368 mm = 14-1/2 inches

_________________
Regards.

Nigel A. Skeet

Independent tutor of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering, for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.

https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=308177758

Upgraded 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 (Toledo / Dolomite HL / Sprint hybrid)

Onetime member + magazine editor & technical editor of Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club


Last edited by naskeet on Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2022 6:49 pm 
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Choosing Tyres for the MG 2000 Maestro 5½ x 15 inch Alloy Wheels on my Triumph Toledo 1300

I haven’t yet made any clear choices about what makes or brands of T-rated 185/65 R15, 185/60 R15 or 185/55 R15 tyres I shall be fitting in the future, to the MG 2000 Maestro 5½ x 15 inch cross-lattice style alloy wheels, for my 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 “HL Special”. My major concerns are good wet-weather performance, ride-comfort, tyre-longevity (i.e. both tread wear & resistance to ageing – hopefully at least 35,000 miles per tyre and/or 15 years, whichever comes first) and value for money.

I was pleased with the wet-weather performance of the “original” Uniroyal Rallye 180 (sidewall embossed with the “rain tyre” umbrella emblem) 175 SR13 steel-braced radial tyres during 1974/75 to mid-1981, but the ride-comfort left much to be desired. Sadly, I was obliged to replace them at short notice after only 6~6½ years of use and less than 20,000 miles each, owing to tyre-tread delamination, possibly associated with ageing, whereby chunks of the tyres’ tread came off whilst driving, never to be seen again! Nearly 10 years ago, I experienced something similar with the synthetic-polymer soles of some unworn shoes that had lain unused in a wardrobe of several years!

The replacement set of five Kelly-Springfield Steelmark 175 SR13 steel-braced radial tyres bought in two stages during mid-1981 to late-1987, served me better. The wet-weather performance was more than satisfactory, ride-comfort was excellent and each of the five tyres lasted more 35,000 miles of road use, at which stage their tread-depth had worn down to about 2½ mm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kelly ... re_Company

https://www.company-histories.com/The-K ... story.html

https://uspto.report/TM/72458879

These in turn were replaced by a set of five low-profile, French made, T-rated, Firestone S211, 185/70 R13 85T M+S tyres (chosen with the aid of the Consumers’ Association’s Which? magazine reports on tyres), fitted at a total indicated mileage of 62,976, on 11th July 1987, during the summer tyre-clearance sales, which I still have to this day, albeit swopped over from 5½ x 13 inch Cosmic alloy wheels (21 mm wheel-offset) to 5½ x 13 inch Dolomite Sprint alloy wheels (35 mm wheel-offset).

“Car Tyres”, Which? magazine, April 1986, Pages 151~154

“Tyres on Test”, Which? magazine, May 1988, Pages 221~224


http://www.tyretown.com/1041_firestone/s211tseries.htm

http://www.automobiliamania.co.uk/Firestone_S211.html

On 29th November 1995, at a mileage of 95,553, following a period of uneven wear on the front two tyres, owing to front toe-in misalignment, worn suspension bushes and/or otherwise, I bought a replacement pair of South African made, S-rated, Firestone S211 185/70 R13 85S M+S radial-ply tyres; intrigued to discover that the new South African tyres had a 10 km/h lower speed rating than the French tyres. Following that, I fitted the two new tyres at the rear and rotated the three remaining older tyres between the front and the spare, to even out the wear rates, so that I might again eventually replace a complete set of five tyres at some time in the future.

When I laid-up the car in mid-1999, at a total mileage of 101,024, it had covered a total of 38,048 miles on Firestone S211, 185/70 R13 M+S radial-ply tyres, with an average of circa 4¾ mm tread-depth remaining (measured using my ancient, analogue P.C.L. 0~26 mm tyre-tread depth gauge, made in England by PNFUMAT O COMPONENTS LTD SHEFFIELD) on the three oldest tyres that had been fitted in July 1987.

This implies that had the original front tyres not worn unevenly and required replacement, the complete set of five Firestone S211 tyres would have worn down to a tread-depth of 2½ mm after a total of circa 64,400 miles; corresponding to circa 51,500 miles per tyre, which would have been about 46% better than the Kelly-Springfield Steelmark tyres! Despite being 70-Series tyres of lower profile than the two previous sets of five 175 SR13 tyres, the Firestone S211, 185/70 R13 tyres provided good ride-comfort and once again the wet-weather performance was more than satisfactory.

In the past, there has been little other than “summer” tyres available in Great Britain, but in recent years I have noticed an increasing trend in the availability of “winter” tyres and “all-season” tyres; including some “all-season” tyres bearing the “snow-flake” emblem, which symbolises that the tyre compound gives enhanced grip at low temperatures. This is supplementary to having an M+S – Mud & Snow tread pattern, like that of my Firestone S211 tyres. It’s interesting to read some of the North American tyre-test results, comparing stopping distances of “summer” and “winter” tyres, during cold weather conditions.

Given that when is use, my 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 “HL Special” has always been an “all-season” & “all-weather” car, I should probably consider these modern “all-season” tyres; especially as it would be impractical to constantly change back and forth between “summer” and “winter” tyres, which would require two complete five-member sets of wheels & tyres for year-round motoring, as seems to be the norm in the colder climates of northern Europe and northern North America; where in some areas the substitution of “winter” tyres is mandatory.

A few years ago, I found on the MyTyres.com website, some discounted, Finnish-made, Nokian “all-season” tyres of this kind, in all three of the 185/65 R15, 185/60 R15 & 185/55 R15 sizes, bearing the “snow-flake” emblem, which seemed to be relatively cheap at circa £50 each, but were also highly rated for wet-weather performance and fuel economy.

https://www.nokiantyres.com

https://www.nokiantyres.com/tyres/passe ... son-tires/

https://www.nokiantyres.com/all-season- ... asonproof/

https://www.nokiantyres.com/all-season- ... therproof/

https://www.nokiantyres.com/tyres/by-ti ... 185-65-15/

https://www.nokiantyres.com/tyres/by-ti ... 185-60-15/

https://www.nokiantyres.com/tyres/by-ti ... 185-55-15/

_________________
Regards.

Nigel A. Skeet

Independent tutor of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering, for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.

https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=308177758

Upgraded 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 (Toledo / Dolomite HL / Sprint hybrid)

Onetime member + magazine editor & technical editor of Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club


Last edited by naskeet on Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 11:35 pm 
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Location: Highley, Shropshire
COMPUTER SAY NO!

I swapped the 205/50s to the back of the Picasso last Friday in anticipation of a trip down to our static caravan at Burnham on Sea that same evening. A swift run round the block to try it out and settle the suspension was a complete disaster, 1/2 a mile in I got fault warnings for ABS and Stability control, a non functioning speedo and, weirdest of all, an engine management light! Switching off and restarting the engine rebooted the system (except the EML which must always be cancelled using a diagnostic) but another 1/2 mile returned the fault codes and speedo failure.

The car obviously objects to my mismatched tyre choices, GRRRR! I really HATE nanny state and cars that think they are smarter than me!

So, at short notice, I swapped all the holiday stuff for SWMBO and myself including luggage, food, her wheelchair, a full tank of fuel (and SWMBO herself) and a precautionary quantity of tools and fluids into the Dolomega for what would be, to date, it's longest non stop run of 127 miles. A low hanging clamp on the exhaust downpipe didn't like the speed bumps on the caravan site, but, even in this heavily loaded condition, I got no graunching from the rear arches, which, I think, vindicates my choice of the 6 spoke MGF rims.

There are several single 6 spoke MGF alloy rims for sale on ebay currently, prices ranging upward from about £40 each (plus collection cost) so I could complete a set of 5, but I really can't be bothered, The MGF steel spare is close enough for me.

I keep my spare face up, both to better support the thin boot board and also for access to the valve to check the tyre pressure more easily. The 185/65 tyre makes the board sit that 1/2" higher than the tank but there is still plenty of room around it to get in a tow strap, original car jack and toolkit, my 3m set of industrial jump leads and some other odds and ends like a spare fuel pump, bulb and fuse kits and the ubiquitous tin of Finilec. I suppose I SHOULD get a spare fanbelt, but the one on the engine is brand new and loss of the fanbelt isn't a major catastrophe as it only drives the alternator.

Also an impending £220 bill for 4 new 185/60/15 Toyos for the Dolomega and another £110 for 2 more 185/65/15s to even up the Picasso makes a big hole in my pension! even when partially offset by the sale of the John Brown 14" fake minilites, which ought to make a couple of hundred with tyres. They WILL fit TR7, Spitfire, Herald, Vitesse, GT6 and Morris Minor without any problems so there IS a market to tap into. But I have to spend the money before I can make it back!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 11:37 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:12 pm
Posts: 7014
Location: Highley, Shropshire
COMPUTER SAY NO!

Sorry, duplicated post!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 6:53 pm 
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Location: South Benfleet, Essex
The Firestone S211 Brand Lives On!

Whilst I was trying to track down some more references (particularly pictures illustrating the tread pattern) to what I presumed was now an obsolete Firestone tyre model, I came across a few unusual items!

One of these was a North American, 1984 advertising poster for the Firestone S211 tire, listed on E-bay by Long Gone Geek Vintage Ads, featuring a picture of the poster which clearly shows the tread pattern:

1984 FIRESTONE S-211 Import Car Radial Tires Vintage Print Ad

https://www.ebay.com/itm/325179843910

https://www.ebay.com/str/longgonegeekvi ... 87.l149086

Also listed on E-bay, in Great Britain, were two part-worn, Firestone S211 tyres, of size 185 SR14, but I shudder to think how old they are, and suspect that their sale might be illegal, under the statutes governing resale of part-worn tyres for reuse:

185 SR 14 Firestone S211 185SR14 Part Worn Summer tyres x 2

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/393485378178

Retro pneu 135 sr13 69S Firestone S-211 - [8.5.2022]

https://auto.bazos.sk/inzerat/137428936 ... -s-211.php

Even stranger, was an archived article from 2015, which appeared in the South African Automotive Business Review, pertaining to the long duration of a prize, 28 years after the Firestone 'Tyres for Life' competition was run in 1987, in which the prize was the initial award and perpetual replacement of a set of Firestone S211 tyres, to whatever vehicle was then possessed by the competition winner André Wentzel, throughout his life.

“1980s Firestone prize keeps giving”, Automotive Business Review, 2015

https://www.abrbuzz.co.za/events/24-pre ... eps-giving

At the time the article was published, André Wentzel had just received his 9th FREE set of tyres, which this time was a set of Bridgestone Dueller tyres, Firestone South Africa having become a member of the Bridgestone group in 1997, and the Firestone S211 having been discontinued.

In a bizarre twist of fate, my search for the Firestone S211, turned up a North American review for Falken Sincera SN211 tyres, available in 14 to 18 inch diameters, which were said to come with an 80,000-mile limited mileage warranty.

https://www.1010tires.com/Tires/Reviews ... cera+SN211

If I had had an 80,000 mile warranty on my Firestone S211 tyres, I’d be laughing! It’s not beyond the bounds of possibility for tyres to last 80,000 miles, recalling that the Michelin XZX 185 SR14 Reinforced radial-ply tyres on my family’s 1973 VW 1600 Type 2 motor-caravan, had covered about 30,000 miles between 1977/78 and late-1992, with more than enough remaining tread-depth to cover at least another 45,000 miles.

This also reminds me that many years ago, there was an oil company (Esso I think) in Great Britain, which marketed its own-brand tyres, with a warranty against punctures. If any of one’s tyres suffered a puncture, they would be replaced free of charge, but I vaguely recall that one had to pay for the tyre tread one had so far used.

ORIGINAL ESSO - E-110. 4 PLY. TYRE.

https://vintagemotoring-uk.com/product/ ... -ply-tyre/

« Scarce original late 1960s/70s Esso - E110, 4-Ply tyre in good original condition. I believe Esso started selling this tyre in 1969 when I came across an old advertising advert but it appears to have been short lived and they stopped producing them probably in the late 1970s. It is stamped with the Esso logo and came from a genuine garage clearance. »

_________________
Regards.

Nigel A. Skeet

Independent tutor of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering, for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.

https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=308177758

Upgraded 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 (Toledo / Dolomite HL / Sprint hybrid)

Onetime member + magazine editor & technical editor of Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club


Last edited by naskeet on Mon Jun 06, 2022 8:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:10 pm 
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Quote:
I don't have the wheel nut problems you do, as both the Carledo and the Dolomega run on 7/16" unf studs. Nuts for these are relatively easily and inexpensively (16 Chromed cap nuts for £24) available via ebay marketed for MkI Escort. These are eminently usable with all 3 types of wheel I have or will use.

However, I am aware that 3/8" studs create a much bigger problem, especially with the MGF alloys which have stud holes that are much larger than necessary, so big in fact, that a standard Toledo's 11/16" AF wheel nut will go right through! My solution to this, is to upgrade the studs (as I did on the Carledo) anything is better than the pitiful 3/8" studs, especially if, like me, a lot more power is in prospect.

I have only very limited acquaintance, with the original factory-fitted 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 wheel-nuts. Before my father took delivery of the car, he rightfully insisted that they be replaced, owing to the 3/8” UNF screw-stud threads not fully engaging with the 3/8” UNF wheel-nut threads (i.e. the outer ends of the studs, did not reach the outer limits of the nuts!) when used in conjunction with the 5½ x 13 inch Cosmic alloy wheels that were already on the car.

I don’t even know whether the original factory-fitted 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 wheel-nuts & 4 x 13 inch steel wheels have hemispherical ball seats like the 1968~79 VW Type 2 or conical tapered seats as found on the 5½ x 13 inch Cosmic alloy wheels!?! The 5½ x 13 inch Dolomite Sprint wheels and associated 3/8” UNF wheel-nuts are yet another story!

I have yet to closely examine an MG-F or MG-TF wheel in the flesh, but I would imagine that the size & profile of the fixing holes, is very similar if not identical to those of the 5½ x 13 inch MG 2000 Maestro & 6 x 13 inch MG 2000 Montego cross-lattice style alloy wheels.

The MG Maestro 5½J x 15 inch wheels’ four wheel-fixing holes for the threaded studs, have a bore of circa 21•0 ± 0•1 mm, so far as I can discern using a tape measure. I have yet to measure the overall depths of these fixing holes and the individual depths of the cylindrical and conical-tapered sections of these holes, which will substantially define the required sizes of the wheel-fixing nuts and lengths of the wheel-fixing studs.

Recalling the geometry & trigonometry of the hexagon and that cosine(30º) = half the square-root of 3 = 0•866025 = adjacent-side ÷ hypotenuse, one can deduce that the a nut of AF – across-flats dimension = 11/16 inches = 17•4625 mm, has a diagonal dimension between vertices = 17•4625 mm ÷ 0•866025 = 20•164 mm, which is marginally smaller than 21•0 ± 0•1 mm.

In principle, it might be possible to use M14 x 1•5 mm screw-studs, if these large-diameter studs are compatible with the Triumph Toledo’s & Dolomite’s hubs, but I don’t know whether any conical-seat, M14 x 1•5 mm wheel-nuts are available. I have some spare wheel-fixing, M14 x 1•5 mm screw-studs laying around somewhere, from a 1974 VW 1800 Type 2 panel-van that we broke for spares during the early-1990s, so I might investigate further some time.

A 14 mm diameter cylinder has a 116•0% larger cross-sectional area than a 9•525 mm (i.e. 3/8-inch) diameter cylinder.

A 12 mm diameter cylinder has a 58•7% larger cross-sectional area than a 9•525 mm (i.e. 3/8-inch) diameter cylinder.

An 11•11 mm (i.e. 7/16-inch) diameter cylinder has a 36•1% larger cross-sectional area than a 9•525 mm (i.e. 3/8-inch) diameter cylinder.

As you observe, 3/8” UNF screw-studs are rather puny (especially compared with the five M14 x 1•5 mm screw-studs on my 1973 VW “1600” Type 2’s wheel-hubs), as evidenced by having one of them sheared off in July 1996, by an over-zealous tyre-fitter using an air-powered wheel-nut wrench!

I would have to consult an engineering handbook to find out the likely shear strength of various screw-studs of different grades of steel, but if the following published torque-wrench settings are anything to go by, the M12 x 1•5 mm screw-studs should be substantially stronger than the 3/8” UNF screw-studs!

Triumph Toledo, 3/8 UNF wheel-nut torque = 48 lbf.ft = 6•6 kgf.m = 65 N.m

Triumph Dolomite Sprint, 7/16 UNF wheel-nut torque = ?????

MG-F & MG-TF, M12 x 1•5 mm wheel-nut torque = 90 N.m

VW Type 2 Transporter, M14 x 1•5 mm wheel-nut torque = 94 lbf.ft = 13•0 kgf.m = 127 N.m

https://uk.rec.cars.classic.narkive.com ... 0Ibf.ft%29."

Another interesting & useful piece of information, is the minimum number of nut-thread turns one should reasonably have, in order to adequately secure a wheel in place; which is particularly relevant when substituting non-standard wheels, screw-studs and/or screw-nuts. This is what I stumbled upon a few years ago:

How to Install Your Tire & Wheel Package

http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/tec ... ?techid=99

Size of Bolt or Stud - - - - - Number of Turns

14 x 1•5mm - - - - - - - - - - 7•5

12 x 1•5mm - - - - - - - - - - 6•5

12 x 1•25mm - - - - - - - - - 8

½ inch - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 8

7/16 inch - - - - - - - - - - - - 8

With one of the sets of five MG cross-lattice style alloy wheels I bought, was a complete set of M12 x 1•5 mm MG wheel-nuts with integral, floating conical seating “washers”, so my plan is to substitute M12 x 1•5 mm screw-studs in place of the original factory-fitted 3/8” UNF screw-studs. I shall also want to obtain a set of four matching (as closely as possible!) M12 x 1•5 mm locking wheel nuts.

During the early period of my time at Kingsway Group / Celcon, during June 1984 to January 1988, I learned that the Ford Granada company-car of my manager Ken Luckin, was jacked-up on bricks in his driveway in South Benfleet, Essex and the four wheels & tyres stolen, in much the same way as those of the Mercedes car, which featured in the 7th January 2004 issue of the Daily Mail newspaper.

Daily Mail, Wednesday, 7th January 2004, Page39: The penalty of NOT having anti-theft locking wheel nuts

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album ... id=2005827

Image

This prompted me to obtain lockable wheel-nuts for the 5½ x 13 inch Cosmic alloy wheels on my 1974 Triumph Toledo and the 5½ x 14 inch factory-fitted steel wheels on my family’s 1973 VW 1600 Type 2 Westfalia Continental motor-caravan.

Quote:
I also don't share your percieved problem with the boot board that covers the spare wheel not fitting down flush over a 5.5" rim and whatever tyre. Every Sprint ever built is like this, because the body was designed to accommodate a 4.5" wide wheel several years before the Sprint was launched with the wider wheels. Rather than fix the error which would at least have meant a retool of the boot floor panel (or a deeper tank, which might have been a better solution), the accountants at Triumph chose to ignore it, on the basis that owners would either a) not notice, or b) not mind if they did. Their judgement of their target market seems to have been largely correct. You are one of only 3 people that i've heard even mention it!

The fact that you have only heard three people mention this rather obvious discrepancy, does not mean that more have not made the observation and bemoaned the fact; especially with regard to the Dolomite Sprint that was presumably intended to have 5½ x 13 inch alloy wheels & 175/70 SR13 tyres! I wonder what proportion of people failed to notice this discrepancy until long after they had purchased the car; given that some people are not very observant!?!

Quote:
I'll stick with my cheap and cheerful MGF steel spare and live with the board height discrepancy!

Chacun a son gout! It wasn’t just the board-height discrepancy that concerned me!

_________________
Regards.

Nigel A. Skeet

Independent tutor of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering, for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.

https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=308177758

Upgraded 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 (Toledo / Dolomite HL / Sprint hybrid)

Onetime member + magazine editor & technical editor of Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:53 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 06, 2014 4:38 pm
Posts: 535
Location: South Benfleet, Essex
Quote:
COMPUTER SAY NO!

I swapped the 205/50s to the back of the Picasso last Friday in anticipation of a trip down to our static caravan at Burnham on Sea that same evening. A swift run round the block to try it out and settle the suspension was a complete disaster, 1/2 a mile in I got fault warnings for ABS and Stability control, a non functioning speedo and, weirdest of all, an engine management light! Switching off and restarting the engine rebooted the system (except the EML which must always be cancelled using a diagnostic) but another 1/2 mile returned the fault codes and speedo failure.

The car obviously objects to my mismatched tyre choices, GRRRR! I really HATE nanny state and cars that think they are smarter than me!

I suspect that having two or more tyres of significantly different external circumference on the vehicle, has confused the ABS and/or traction-control system into "thinking" that a wheel is slipping or is locked; given that on average all of the wheels should be rotating at the same rpm, except when negotiating a bend. This kind of thing, is one of many reasons I have vowed never to have a modern vehicle, which I interpret as being any vehicle designed & manufactured since the early-1990s.

205/50 R15 – overall external circumference = 1841•0 mm (0•28% larger than 155/82 R13)

185/60 R15 – overall external circumference = 1894•3 mm (3•18% larger than 155/82 R13)

185/65 R15 – overall external circumference = 1952•5 mm (6•35% larger than 155/82 R13)

According to various retailers of space-saver spare-wheel kits for modern cars, a ± 3% deviation in tyre external circumference would be acceptable, but this doesn't seem to be the case with the Picasso, where the external circumference of the 205/50 R15 tyres differs from that of the 185/65 R15 tyres by circa 6%!

https://www.amcarparts.co.uk/space-save ... etail.html

https://www.amcarparts.co.uk/product/sp ... el/citroen

Quote:
So, at short notice, I swapped all the holiday stuff for SWMBO and myself including luggage, food, her wheelchair, a full tank of fuel (and SWMBO herself) and a precautionary quantity of tools and fluids into the Dolomega for what would be, to date, it's longest non stop run of 127 miles. A low hanging clamp on the exhaust downpipe didn't like the speed bumps on the caravan site, but, even in this heavily loaded condition, I got no graunching from the rear arches, which, I think, vindicates my choice of the 6 spoke MGF rims.

SWMBO = She Who Must Be Obeyed !?!?! :? :shock:

I'm surprised at you for having a drooping exhaust system on your Triumph Dolomite "Dolomega"! Apart from from its attachment to the exhaust manifold, my Triumph Toledo's 1982 Cheeseman stainless-steel exhaust system, is only supported in three places, but I would like to add some additional vibration-isolation supports for greater security.

The longest journey I ever made in the 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 "HL Special", was a one-day round trip of about 250 miles in 1989, from Canvey Island, Essex to the Tarmac Topblock factory in Alfreton, Derbyshire. During 1990~91, when I was at RMCS - Royal Military College of Science, in Shrivenham, near Swindon, Wiltshire, I used to drive the 2 x 127 mile round-trip to go home for the weekends.

The longest recorded total distance (as indicated by the odometer & trip-counter) travelled in that car (with 175 SR13 tyres) was 415 miles, without refilling or partially refilling my 10.5 Imperial gallon petrol tank; corresponding to 39.5 mpg. I was only 4~5 miles from home when the Toledo's engine died from fuel starvation, but fortunately I had 1.09 Imperial gallons of petrol in my Paddy Hopkirk "Explosafe" 5-litre petrol can in the boot.

If I had had a Triumph Dolomite 1300's 12.5 Imperial gallon petrol tank, I might have managed nearly 495 miles without refuelling; which is further than travelling between Canvey Island or South Benfleet, Essex, England and my childhood home in Dundee, Tayside (originally in Angus before Tayside was created), Scotland!

Quote:
Keep in mind, that on average, 185/60 R15 tyres will have a circa 5 mm greater installed section-width than 185/55 R15 tyres, that are mounted on the same wheels. Also keep in mind, that the installed section-width of tyres, mounted on wheels of “standard” or “measuring” width, can vary considerably between different tyre manufacturers & brands, so a tyre of 185 mm nominal section-width, might conceivably be 185 ± 5 mm.
Quote:
I expect there to be noticeable variation in installed section-width of the same sized tyre, of different manufacturers’ brands, on the same sized wheel.

I expect there to be noticeable variation in installed section-width of the same sized tyre, of the same manufacturer’s brand, on wheels of different sizes.

It's good that your Triumph Dolomite "Dolomega" has still yet to experience any noticeable wheel & tyre rubbing or interference with the wheel-arches or suspension components, despite being heavily laden for your impromtu, recent, 127 mile trip to the static caravan.

Were you still using the original Chinese Linglong 185/55 R15 tyres on the 6J x 15 inch MG-F six-spoke alloy wheels (28 mm wheel-offset), or had you already substituted a pair of new Toyo Proxes 185/60 R15 tyres?

Would there have been any noticeable wheel & tyre rubbing or interference, had you NOT previously cut or ground away part of the rear-wheel arches, in an attempt to accommodate the John Brown fake "Minilite" style 5.5 x 14 inch wheels (22 mm wheel-offset) & 185/60 R14 tyres?

Given that the following 5.5 x 15 inch & 6 x 15 inch MG alloy wheels, are probably few of the readily-available wheels, of 4 x 3.75 inch (i.e. 4 x 95.25 mm) PCD and 56~57 mm centre-bore, with a potentially suitable wheel-offset, I suspect that a significant number of Triumph Toledo & Dolomite owners, would wish to know whether these wheels can be used with various tyre options, without needing to modify the wheel arches.

5.5J x 13 inch (35 mm offset | Max Load = ???) - Triumph Dolomite Sprint

MG 2000 Maestro - 5.5J x 15 inch (31 mm offset | Max. Load = 400 kg or 415 kg)

MG 2000 Maestro Turbo - 6J x 15 inch (28 mm offset!?! | Max Load = ???)

MG 2000 Montego - 6J x 15 inch (28 mm offset | Max. Load = 425 kg)

MG 2000 Montego Turbo - 6J x 15 inch (28 mm offset!?! | Max Load = ???)

MG-F & MG-TF - 6J x 15 inch (28 mm offset | Max Load = ???)

Quote:
There are several single 6 spoke MGF alloy rims for sale on ebay currently, prices ranging upward from about £40 each (plus collection cost) so I could complete a set of 5, but I really can't be bothered, The MGF steel spare is close enough for me.

I keep my spare face up, both to better support the thin boot board and also for access to the valve to check the tyre pressure more easily. The 185/65 tyre makes the board sit that 1/2" higher than the tank but there is still plenty of room around it to get in a tow strap, original car jack and toolkit, my 3m set of industrial jump leads and some other odds and ends like a spare fuel pump, bulb and fuse kits and the ubiquitous tin of Finilec. I suppose I SHOULD get a spare fanbelt, but the one on the engine is brand new and loss of the fanbelt isn't a major catastrophe as it only drives the alternator.

I would have thought that 6J x 15 inch MG-F alloy wheels would be much cheaper than £40 each, or has there been a massive increase in asking prices since the COVID-19 pandemic started!?! It's only been 4~5 years since I bought my five + two 5.5 x 15 inch MG Maestro wheels, the most expensive of which, were less than £20 each, plus less than £7.50 each in courier fees.

When we were planning our first independent touring holiday in 1975, we investigated hiring one of the AA's overseas touring emergency spares kits (almost essential for obsolete vehicles, even in Great Britain), which listed the following items:

Top & bottom radiator hoses
Heater hoses
Fan-belt
Spark plugs
Contact-breaker points
Condenser
Rotor arm
Distributor cap
HT Leads
Ignition coil
Fuel pump
Bulbs
Fuses

Shraeder valve-cores

My Toledo's V-belt drives both the water pump and the alternator. What drives your water pump if not a V-belt? How far do you think you could drive (day and/or night) on reserve battery charge, if the alternator was no longer functioning?

Whilst on our motor-caravan touring holiday in Sweden (obligatory daytime use of dipped headlamps), during the summer of 1982, our 1973 VW 1600 Type 2 sustained dynamo voltage-regulator failure without warning (no ignition warning light illumination, despite serviceable bulb). Only after stopping on a steep uphill gradient to investigate an engine misfire, did I discover that the battery was "flat" and the starter-motor couldn't turn over the engine to restart.

I managed to restart the engine by rolling down hill in reverse and then gradually engaging the clutch once we were rolling at 10+ mph. By illegally switching off the dipped headlamps, I had enough reserve charge and battery voltage to operate the ignition system and limped to the next large town where there was a franchised VW workshop. Towing charges in Sweden would have been horrendously expensive. For the substitute 1911 cc, VW 17/1800 Type 4 style air-cooled engine, I have a spare alternator & remote voltage regulator, as well as two spare V-belts.

The wheel-centres of the Cosmic, Dolomite Sprint or MG 2000 Maestro wheels, are NOT at the same level as the tyre sidewalls, so would NOT provide any support for the shaped, hardboard wheel-cover. It is only the tyre side-walls which support the hardboard wheel-cover and any luggage above it, irrespective of which way up the wheel is put in the spare-wheel well!

If I place my 1000 mm long STANLEY aluminium builder's spirit-level across the sidewall of the tyres there is a large gap between the underside of the spirit-level and the closest part of the wheel centres as follows:

Dolomite Sprint wheel (no centre-cap) & 185/70 R13 tyre - 30 mm gap

MG 2000 Maestro wheel & 185/55 R15 tyre - 23 mm gap

I cannot undertake a similar measurement (which I anticipate would probably be less than 30 mm, but still significantly large) on the Cosmic wheels & 185/70 R13 or 175 SR13 tyres, as I no longer have the Cosmic wheels, which I swopped for the Dolomite Sprint wheels in July 1996.

Recalling that the Dolomite boot is circa 6 inches or 150 mm longer than that of the Toledo, implies that there is much less space in the Toledo boot, adjacent to the spare wheel, below the hardboard spare-wheel cover, to provide storage for spares, tools and emergency equipment. Turning the spare-wheel up the other way in the boot, simply so that I can directly access the tyre-inflation Schräder valve, would be a heavy price for me to pay for wasted useful storage space, but fortunately there is a simple way of overcoming this, by using a pneumatic extension hose, which can be used to both check the tyre's inflation pressure and further inflate it if necessary, without disturbing the spare-wheel or placing the tyre-inflator in the boot!

Being quite well acquainted with 1960s & 1970s vintage, air-cooled VW Types 1, 2, 3 & 4, I was aware that they all had air-pressurised windscreen-washer reservoirs, which provided me with the necessary second-hand components to make a pneumatic extension hose.

The windscreen-washer reservoirs of the 1968~79 VW Type 2, are pressurised to circa 45 psi or 3 Bar, using a conventional tyre-inflator (e.g. bicycle-pump, foot-pump, stirrup-pump or electric-compressor) via a short-length rubber hose and short-stemmed Schräder-valve body (similar to that used for car tyres or inner-tubes).

The windscreen-washer reservoirs of the VW Types 1, 3 & 4, are pressurised by air from the nearby spare-wheel, via a relatively long rubber hose and a fitting with integral valve-core depressor, which screws onto the spare-wheel's Schräder-valve stem.

Using a long rubber hose & screw-on fitting with integral Schräder-valve-core depressor, from a VW Type 1, 3 or 4, in combination with a short-stemmed Schräder-valve body from a VW Type 2 or a wheel's defunct valve stem with the rubber stripped off, one can readily make a pneumatic extension hose like mine.

Not only can I use a pneumatic extension hose (I have more than one!) with my Triumph Toledo's spare-wheel, but also my 1973 VW Type 2's original windscreen-washer reservoir, plus the spare-wheel mounted on the front panel below the windscreen and the spare-wheel stored upright in the spare-wheel well above the rear engine compartment.

Quote:
Also an impending £220 bill for 4 new 185/60/15 Toyos for the Dolomega and another £110 for 2 more 185/65/15s to even up the Picasso makes a big hole in my pension! even when partially offset by the sale of the John Brown 14" fake minilites, which ought to make a couple of hundred with tyres. They WILL fit TR7, Spitfire, Herald, Vitesse, GT6 and Morris Minor without any problems so there IS a market to tap into. But I have to spend the money before I can make it back!

Sometime ago, I came across a reference to a Morris Minor being equipped with what looked like 6 x 15 inch MG-F wheels! A bill for tyres of £220 + £110 would make a large dent in my state retirement pension too; it being the only retirement pension I have.

_________________
Regards.

Nigel A. Skeet

Independent tutor of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering, for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.

https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=308177758

Upgraded 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 (Toledo / Dolomite HL / Sprint hybrid)

Onetime member + magazine editor & technical editor of Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club


Last edited by naskeet on Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:31 pm 
Online
TDC Shropshire Area Organiser

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:12 pm
Posts: 7014
Location: Highley, Shropshire
the computer on the Picasso did not react nearly so strenuously to having the 205/50s on the front, just an occasional flicker of the stability light. I suspect the stabilty control thinks the tyres were flat (which previously has illuminated the ESC light) or possibly the difference in circumferences is confusing the speed sensing, which takes it's signal from the ABS. The EML is on for the loss of speedo signal, I think, but i've heard that Toyota for one, will light several bulbs to distract you and put you off further driving on an uncorrected fault, especially if that fault is related to emission control (not so, in this case)

SWMBO is indeed "She Who MUST be Obeyed" actually a misnomer in my case but only awarded with the highest regard and affection.

Droopy exhaust? not especially, or at least not by accident! the downpipe location is a tad low because there is very little space between the fat GM trans and the longitudinal chassis rail. This complicated by the joint between downpipe and centre box ending up directly below the trans crossmember. The final event in this causational cascade being the exceptionally high and steep sleeping policemen on the campsite! A re-engineered clamp, along with another 1/2" or so of ground clearance from the 185/60/15 tyres, when I get them, will fix this.

I'm no stranger to serious long distance driving having more than once driven to Penzance and back in a day, plus of course clocking up around 800 of the 2200 miles we covered in the 48 hours of the 2018 RBRR. The 127 miles to the caravan, largely on the M5, is little more than a "Milk Run" for me and I would expect it to be the same situation for the Dolomega. The car certainly took the outbound trip in it's stride despite atrocious weather and delivered somewhere in the region of 40mpg in the process, considerably more than the Picasso's pretty awful 31mpg motorway average! But I take nothing for granted, the car had covered less than 1400 miles since built, at departure time, snagging is by no means over yet!

I'm quite sure the arches WOULD have rubbed on the 185/55 shod MGF 15s if I hadn't already partially relieved them in an attempt to clear the JBW 14's. This seems to be a car-by-car thing, I know of some people who've had this particular combo clear without modification, others don't! The Carledo only barely failed to clear 205/50s. The subtle difference in design between the long and short tailed car's rear arches does favour (oddly) the Toledo here.

The set of 4 good condition 6 spoke MGF rims with 4 usable tyres were £125 plus collection expenses (about £25 in fuel) so a single wheel with a good tyre at £40 is not too bad. By contrast, the first set of 4 MGF 5 spoke wheels I bought for the Carledo were only £65 with 3 usable tyres. These were also much more local, only 12 miles from home. But that was circa 2008. The presence or absence of good tyres, even if not the desired size, can affect the price by as much as 50%

On touring kit parts, I admit i'm remiss in not carrying rad hoses, though the car uses cut down standard Omega hoses, i've not got around to buying spare ones yet. most of the other hosework is done in 1/2" or 5/8" straight hose some of which I carry.

Most of the ignition parts on your list, the Omega motor doesn't have, no points, condenser, distributor cap, rotor arm, coil or HT leads. The plugs in the engine are new Platinum tipped ones and it has an all in one coil pack arrangement which I WILL get a spare for eventually, but they are relatively bullet proof (they are also over £100 each new!) I carry a spare crank sensor and fuel pump and relay. Along with bulbs and fuses that any sensible person carries anyway.

The Omega water pump is driven by the timing belt. The belt, pump, tensioner and 3 jockey pulleys were all replaced during the build (why wouldn't you?) with good quality Gates parts which should now be good for another 75k miles.

How far could I get without the fanbelt? I reckon over 100 miles night and 150+ in daylight. This based on a failutre I had years ago with my GT6 alternator overcharging and and almost melting the battery near Oxford during a weekend trip from home in Shropshire to Maidenhead Berkshire. I had to get to Maidenhead about dusk and couldn't lose the fanbelt for the same reason it would stop you so had to unplug the alternator. I got a bump start and made it in to Maidenhead charged the battery at my friends place and made it 100+ miles home in the dark on the Sunday night (just!, The electric fuel pump was almost stopped and the lights were little better than glow worms, but I got home!)

There must be something about Sweden and camper van charging systems! On a camping trip on the Baltic coast of Sweden in 1973, I had the alternator fail on our brand new (Rented) Bedford CF camper. To my eternal surprise there was a Lucas agent in the tiny coastal town of Vastervik where we camped after the failure, who managed to repair it for a very sensible cost. He spoke perfect English too!

I'm surprised the gap twixt wheel centre and board is THAT big, but i'll take your word for it, i've not measured it. And i'm aware of the VW's clever tyre pressure powered washers, having done 2 years on VW in the days when one simply couldn't buy a water cooled one! But I confess I hadn't considered using the bits as an extension to the tyre valve. Having said that, i've also seen valves designed for twin rear wheel trucks that double back through the wheel. However, one of those would be worse than useless once fitted to the car!

I too only have a state pension, my much younger wife is disabled so doesn't work, we have to budget carefully at the best of times (though the disability does pay the Picasso's crippling VED of nearly £400 p/a) Supporting my hobby means i'm not quite as retired as I could be! but i've told everyone I know that if their car is less than 30 years old, i'm just not interested! Bad enough I have to work on the Picasso, not that THAT gives much trouble on the whole, if it did, I wouldn't keep it! I only have it at all for the benefit of SWMBO's damaged spine.

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 06, 2014 4:38 pm
Posts: 535
Location: South Benfleet, Essex
Here are some more potentially useful Internet website links, pertaining to wheel-fixing hole & wheel-nut profiles, torque-wrench settings, wheel PCD measurement, wheel-offset & back-spacing:

Speedway Tech Team, Wheel Lug Nut Size Guide + Torque Spec Chart, 15th September 2015

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/the-tool ... hart/28890

Speedway Tech Team, How To Measure Wheel Bolt Pattern, 19th September 2016

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/the-tool ... tern/28804

Joe McCollough, Wheel Offset vs Backspacing Explained, 16th June 2021

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/the-tool ... cing/30059

Quote:
In principle, it might be possible to use M14 x 1•5 mm screw-studs, if these large-diameter studs are compatible with the Triumph Toledo’s & Dolomite’s hubs, but I don’t know whether any conical-seat, M14 x 1•5 mm wheel-nuts are available. I have some spare wheel-fixing, M14 x 1•5 mm screw-studs laying around somewhere, from a 1974 VW 1800 Type 2 panel-van that we broke for spares during the early-1990s, so I might investigate further some time.

A 14 mm diameter cylinder has a 116•0% larger cross-sectional area than a 9•525 mm (i.e. 3/8-inch) diameter cylinder.

A 12 mm diameter cylinder has a 58•7% larger cross-sectional area than a 9•525 mm (i.e. 3/8-inch) diameter cylinder.

An 11•11 mm (i.e. 7/16-inch) diameter cylinder has a 36•1% larger cross-sectional area than a 9•525 mm (i.e. 3/8-inch) diameter cylinder.

As you observe, 3/8” UNF screw-studs are rather puny (especially compared with the five M14 x 1•5 mm screw-studs on my 1973 VW “1600” Type 2’s wheel-hubs), as evidenced by having one of them sheared off in July 1996, by an over-zealous tyre-fitter using an air-powered wheel-nut wrench!

With one of the sets of five MG cross-lattice style alloy wheels I bought, was a complete set of M12 x 1•5 mm MG wheel-nuts with integral, floating conical seating “washers”, so my plan is to substitute screw-studs in place of the original factory-fitted 3/8” UNF screw-studs. I shall also want to obtain a set of four matching (as closely as possible!) M12 x 1•5 mm locking wheel nuts.

Further Internet research indicates that both M12 x 1•5 mm & M14 x 1•5 mm locking wheel nuts, with integral, floating conical seating “washers” are readily available from Mcgard and possibly other manufacturers. Hence, I would presume that M14 x 1•5 mm ordinary wheel nuts, with integral, floating conical seating “washers” are also available.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/b/Car-Wheel-Nuts ... /bn_875529

https://www.ebay.co.uk/b/Car-Nuts-Bolts ... bn_1265710

24214SU | Wheel Lock Nuts SU | M14 x 1•5 | cone seat | Overall length 39•7 mm | Hex size 21 mm | Key diameter 27•7 mm | Brand: McGard | £31•71

https://www.amazon.co.uk/24214SU-Wheel- ... JNM0&psc=1

24212SU | Wheel Lock Nuts SU | M12 x 1•5 | cone seat washer | Overall length 32•5 mm | Hex size 19 mm | Key diameter 27•7 mm | Brand: McGard | £27•95

https://www.amazon.co.uk/24212SU-washer ... JNLQ&psc=1

McGard Locking Wheel Nut & Bolt Applications Chart Page 11

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/A1pXgHmCB9S.pdf

The following information is given on Page 11 of the PDF document:

M12 x 1•5 mm | floating taper collar | Part No. 24212 | Total length 32•5 mm | hex size 19 mm | Styles SU & SL

M14 x 1•5 mm | floating taper collar | Part No. 24658| Total length 37•4 mm | hex size 21 mm | Style SL

The following guidance is given elsewhere in the PDF document:

« Remove one original wheel nut/wheel bolt from each wheel of your vehicle. When changing a wheel at a later stage, always remove the wheel lock as the first nut/bolt and install it as the last nut/bolt. IMPORTANT: Before installing the wheel lock, please always check that the McGard wheel lock has the same thread, seat and shaft/overall length as the original nut/bolt! »

« IMPORTANT: Do not use an impact spanner as this can damage the McGard wheel lock/ key and your vehicle. After the first 50 km, please retighten the McGard wheel lock to the torque specified in your vehicle’s manual using a torque wrench. 4. So that you can access your key in the event of a wheel change, we recommend that you keep your key, the original nuts/bolts for your vehicle, and these installation instructions (with your personal code number) in the resealable packaging in a safe place in your vehicle. »

« LUG NUTS & WHEEL LOCK NUTS Note: When installing lug nuts and wheel lock nuts, verify that they are the correct thread size, seating surface type (cone seat, radius seat, shank) and style as recommended by the wheel manufacturer. Minimum thread engagement must be equal to the thread diameter of the wheel stud. Example: M12 x 1•5 nut requires a minimum of 12 mm of thread engagement. »

_________________
Regards.

Nigel A. Skeet

Independent tutor of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering, for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.

https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=308177758

Upgraded 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 (Toledo / Dolomite HL / Sprint hybrid)

Onetime member + magazine editor & technical editor of Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club


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