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 Post subject: Banded wheels
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2022 8:54 pm 
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Hi just wondering if anyone has experience in having done standed 13" steel wheels banded, if so, how much wider did you get them banded and what tyre size did you go for? 185/80R13? :?
Many thanks
Ben


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 Post subject: Re: Banded wheels
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 2:52 am 
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Look up Paul Redshaw on facebook; he’s the former owner of a Sprint powered Spitfire and the man to band your wheels for you and advise about tyre sizes.


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 Post subject: Re: Banded wheels
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:55 am 
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Banded Dolomite steel wheels are not a succes. The originals are too weak. The centre does crack and tear when these are widened. I have several of these and in the early day's I also welded some 5mm spacers behind to reinforce.

For serious or daily driving banding the std steel wheels will not be advisable.

Jeroen

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 Post subject: Re: Banded wheels
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 8:29 pm 
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Hi guys, thanks for the replys and the much needed information, ill have a look into recommended wheels

Ben


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 Post subject: Re: Banded wheels
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:05 pm 
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Hi just wondering if anyone has experience in having done standed 13" steel wheels banded, if so, how much wider did you get them banded and what tyre size did you go for? 185/80R13? :?
Many thanks
Ben

185/80 R13 tyres as factory-fitted to the larger Triumph 2000, 2500 & 2.5 PI, are NOT widely available these days and they are relatively expensive. They are also of much larger external radius & circumference (more than 8% larger) than the factory-standard 155/80 R13 tyres.

For many years I used 185/70 R13 tyres on 5.5 x 13 inch Cosmic wheels (21 mm offset) and later 5.5 x 13 inch Dolomite Sprint wheels (35 mm offset), fitted to my 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 "HL Special". These tyres are still readily available, but I anticipate that this will change noticeably over the next few years, so I intend to substitute 5.5 x 15 inch MG 2000 Maestro alloy wheels (31 mm offset) in conjunction with either 185/65 R15, 185/60 R15 or 185/55 R15 tyres, of which the former are the most readily available.

On the 5.5 x 13 inch Cosmic wheels (21 mm offset), the tyres rubbed against the rear wheel arches, when carrying rear-seat passengers and/or heavy luggage in the boot.

If I recall correctly, I have included quite a bit of information about tyre-size availability in the following topic thread:

Board index » The Triumph Dolomite Club » Dolomite-related [Start here!] » Looking for different wheels? A warning!

https://forum.triumphdolomite.co.uk/vie ... =4&t=37338

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Nigel A. Skeet

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https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=308177758

Upgraded 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 (Toledo / Dolomite HL / Sprint hybrid)

Onetime member + magazine editor & technical editor of Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club


Last edited by naskeet on Mon Jul 11, 2022 8:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Banded wheels
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:09 am 
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These are an inch wider than the standard steel wheels.

https://www.johnbrownwheels.com/product ... 5513SMO495

185/60s would fit nicely on them.


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 Post subject: Re: Banded wheels
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:55 pm 
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Not sure if the offset is right but TR7s had 185/70s on the later models. They should work?

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 Post subject: Re: Banded wheels
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 6:41 pm 
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Location: South Benfleet, Essex
Quote:
These are an inch wider than the standard steel wheels.

https://www.johnbrownwheels.com/product ... 5513SMO495

185/60s would fit nicely on them.
Quote:
Not sure if the offset is right but TR7s had 185/70s on the later models. They should work?
Quote:
For many years I used 185/70 R13 tyres on 5.5 x 13 inch Cosmic wheels (21 mm offset) and later 5.5 x 13 inch Dolomite Sprint wheels (35 mm offset), fitted to my 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 "HL Special". These tyres are still readily available, but I anticipate that this will change noticeably over the next few years, so I intend to substitute 5.5 x 15 inch MG 2000 Maestro alloy wheels (31 mm offset) in conjunction with either 185/65 R15, 185/60 R15 or 185/55 R15 tyres, of which the former are the most readily available.

On the 5.5 x 13 inch Cosmic wheels (21 mm offset), the tyres rubbed against the rear wheel arches, when carrying rear-seat passengers and/or heavy luggage in the boot.

185/60 R13 or 185/70 R13 tyres would fit on these okay, but with a wheel-offset of ONLY 20 mm, the tyres WILL almost certainly rub against the rear wheel arches; especially if carrying rear-seat passengers or heavy luggage.

Strangely, the "Smoothie" 5½ x 13 inch steel wheel, is said to have a centre-bore diameter of 157 mm, which seems inordinately large!

5½ x 13 inch – “Smoothie” steel | 20 mm offset | 157 mm centre-bore | 7•00 kg weight | £82•45 unit price

https://www.johnbrownwheels.com/product ... 5513SMO495

Ideally, you should be using wheels whose wheel-offset is much closer to 35 mm, like my 5.5 x 15 inch MG 2000 Maestro wheels of 31 mm wheel-offset, on which one could use 185/65 R15, 185/60 R15 or 185/55 R15 tyres, which are likely to be readily available at reasonable prices for many years to come, unlike tyres for 13 inch wheels.

Another potential disadvantage of retaining 13 inch wheels, is that there would probably only be summer tyres available for them, but for 15 inch wheels one can obtain either summer, winter or all-season tyres.

Checking on MyTyres.com, I found the following options:

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/


185/80 R13 – 90S | 1 result

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/search?sortCo ... eTypes=OFF

Maxxis MA1 | P185/80 R13 90S WSW 15mm | summer tyres | £105•69


175/80 R13 – 86S or 175/80 R13C - 97/95R | 2 results

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/search?sortCo ... iews=false

Maxxis MA 1 | P175/80 R13 86S WSW 15mm | summer tyres | £ 107•89

HI FLY Super 2000 | 175/80 R13C 97/95R | commercial-van summer tyres | £46•99


165/80 R13 – 83T or 87T XL | 22 results

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/search?sortCo ... eTypes=OFF


155/80 R13 – 79 T or 83 T XL | 48 results

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/search?sortCo ... eTypes=OFF


175/70 R13 – 83 T or 82 H | 53 results

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/search?priceC ... &season=so


185/70 R13 – 86 T | 17 results

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/search?sortCo ... iews=false


185/65 R14 – 86 T or 86H | 135 results

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/search?sortCo ... iews=false


185/60 R14 – 82 T or H or 86 H XL | 131 results

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/search?sortCo ... iews=false


185/65 R15 – 88 T or 88 H or 92 T XL or 92 H XL | 290 results

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/search?sortCo ... iews=false


185/60 R15 – 84 T or 84 H / 88 T XL or 88 H XL | 209 results

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/search?sortCo ... ologation=


185/55 R15 – 82 T, 82H or 82V / 86 H XL or 86 V XL | 132 results

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/search?sortCo ... ologation=


175/65 R15 – 84 T or 84 H / 88 T XL or 88 H XL | 146 results

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/search?sortCo ... eTypes=OFF


175/60 R15 – 81T or 81 H or 81 V / 85 H XL | 38 results

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/search?sortCo ... eTypes=OFF


175/55 R15 – 77 T, 77 H or 77 V / 81 T XL | 44 results

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/search?priceC ... 15&season=

In a 14-page, A5-format magazine technical article [published in either the Automobile Association’s “DRIVE” magazine or Motor-Caravanners’ Club’s “Motor-Caravanner” magazine, but believed to be the former] dating from early-1992, I found a statement that for standard-profile tyres such as 155 SR13 (later re-designated 155 R13), the aspect ratio was 82%, which is consistent with the 82% & 83% that I found in various papers, that were published in a wheel & tyre industry engineering conference proceedings from the early-1980s.

185 R13 => 185/83 R13 – overall external circumference = 2002•1 mm
185 R13 => 185/82 R13 – overall external circumference = 1990•5 mm (8•42% larger than 155/82 R13)
185 R13 => 185/80 R13 – overall external circumference = 1967•2 mm

175 R13 => 175/83 R13 – overall external circumference = 1949•9 mm
175 R13 => 175/82 R13 – overall external circumference = 1939•0 mm (5•62% larger than 155/82 R13) [Nigel’s tyres from 1975 to 1987]
175 R13 => 175/80 R13 – overall external circumference = 1917•0 mm

165 R13 => 165/83 R13 – overall external circumference = 1897•8 mm
165 R13 => 165/82 R13 – overall external circumference = 1887•4 mm (2•81% larger than 155/82 R13)
165 R13 => 165/80 R13 – overall external circumference = 1866•7 mm

155 R13 => 155/83 R13 – overall external circumference = 1845•6 mm
155 R13 => 155/82 R13 – overall external circumference = 1835•9 mm
155 R13 => 155/80 R13 – overall external circumference = 1816•4 mm

185/70 R13 – overall external circumference = 1851•0 mm (0•82% larger than 155/82 R13) [Nigel’s tyres from 1987 onward]

175/70 R13 – overall external circumference = 1807•0 mm (1•57% smaller than 155/82 R13) [factory-fitted tyre size on Dolomite Sprint]

175/65 R13 – overall external circumference = 1752•0 mm (4•57% smaller than 155/82 R13)

185/60 R13 – overall external circumference = 1734•7 mm (5•51% smaller than 155/82 R13)


175/65 R14 – overall external circumference = 1831•8 mm (0•22% smaller than 155/82 R13) [MG-F & MG-TF space saver spare]


175/65 R15 – overall external circumference = 1911•7 mm (4•13% larger than 155/82 R13)

175/60 R15 – overall external circumference = 1856•7 mm (1•13% larger than 155/82 R13)

175/55 R15 – overall external circumference = 1801•7 mm (1•86% smaller than 155/82 R13)

185/65 R15 – overall external circumference = 1952•5 mm (6•35% larger than 155/82 R13)

185/60 R15 – overall external circumference = 1894•3 mm (3•18% larger than 155/82 R13)

185/55 R15 – overall external circumference = 1836•2 mm (0•02% smaller than 155/82 R13)

_________________
Regards.

Nigel A. Skeet

Independent tutor of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering, for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.

https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=308177758

Upgraded 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 (Toledo / Dolomite HL / Sprint hybrid)

Onetime member + magazine editor & technical editor of Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club


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 Post subject: Re: Banded wheels
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:41 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:46 am
Posts: 424
Location: Midhurst, West Sussex.
Quote:
Not sure if the offset is right but TR7s had 185/70s on the later models. They should work?
That's odd. They list it for the Dolomite but, according to naskeet, looks like it might need a 10/15mm spacer to fit.


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 Post subject: Re: Banded wheels
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:22 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:26 am
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Quote:
Not sure if the offset is right but TR7s had 185/70s on the later models. They should work?
I know somebody who has those wheels on a 1500HL. Not sure what tyres, but they look OK (if that is your thing)

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 Post subject: Re: Banded wheels
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2022 7:01 pm 
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Future Club member hopefully!
Future Club member hopefully!

Joined: Tue May 06, 2014 4:38 pm
Posts: 535
Location: South Benfleet, Essex
Quote:
Quote:
Not sure if the offset is right but TR7s had 185/70s on the later models. They should work?
That's odd. They list it for the Dolomite but, according to naskeet, looks like it might need a 10/15mm spacer to fit.

Wheel-spacers are intended for use with wheels whose wheel-offset is TOO LARGE. If one uses spacers with wheels whose wheel-offset is TOO SMALL, the effective wheel-offset becomes even smaller and the wheel will be even closer to the outboard surfaces of the wheel-arch; assuming the wheel can even be fitted onto the hub!

Quote:
These are an inch wider than the standard steel wheels.

https://www.johnbrownwheels.com/product ... 5513SMO495

185/60s would fit nicely on them.
Quote:
Not sure if the offset is right but TR7s had 185/70s on the later models. They should work?
Quote:
For many years I used 185/70 R13 tyres on 5.5 x 13 inch Cosmic wheels (21 mm offset) and later 5.5 x 13 inch Dolomite Sprint wheels (35 mm offset), fitted to my 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 "HL Special". These tyres are still readily available, but I anticipate that this will change noticeably over the next few years, so I intend to substitute 5.5 x 15 inch MG 2000 Maestro alloy wheels (31 mm offset) in conjunction with either 185/65 R15, 185/60 R15 or 185/55 R15 tyres, of which the former are the most readily available.

On the 5.5 x 13 inch Cosmic wheels (21 mm offset), the tyres rubbed against the rear wheel arches, when carrying rear-seat passengers and/or heavy luggage in the boot.
Quote:
185/60 R13 or 185/70 R13 tyres would fit on these okay, but with a wheel-offset of ONLY 20 mm, the tyres WILL almost certainly rub against the rear wheel arches; especially if carrying rear-seat passengers or heavy luggage.

Strangely, the "Smoothie" 5½ x 13 inch steel wheel, is said to have a centre-bore diameter of 157 mm, which seems inordinately large!

5½ x 13 inch – “Smoothie” steel | 20 mm offset | 157 mm centre-bore | 7•00 kg weight | £82•45 unit price

https://www.johnbrownwheels.com/product ... 5513SMO495

I contacted John Brown Wheels about the anomaly regarding the stated 157 mm centre-bore, which would be impossible with a 95.25 mm PCD! They have since amended the details and are now quoting a 67.1 mm centre-bore, which suggests that appropriate spigot rings should probably be used.

On a Triumph Toledo or Dolomite, one would probably get away with using 175/70 R13, 175/75 R13 or 175/80 R13 tyres on these wheels, but 185/70 R13 tyres would almost certainly rub the outboard, rear wheel-arch surfaces, which constitutes an MOT test failure!

If one really wants to fit 5.5 inch steel wheels to a Triumph Toledo or Dolomite, those of size 5.5 x 14 inch (as used for the MG-F & MG-TF space-saver spare wheel and some Austin-Rover Montegos) with 28 mm wheel-offset, for which the best tyre-size choice would probably be 175/65 R14. If one fitted 185/65 R14 tyres, it might be touch & go re tyre rubbing.

_________________
Regards.

Nigel A. Skeet

Independent tutor of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering, for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.

https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=308177758

Upgraded 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 (Toledo / Dolomite HL / Sprint hybrid)

Onetime member + magazine editor & technical editor of Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club


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