The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

Just to be sure could someone who knows they have standard suspension in good nick on standard tyres please measure the ground clearance of their subframe front crossmember?

Cheers
Tinweevil

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1978 Pageant Sprint - the rustomite, 1972 Spitfire IV - sprintfire project, 1968 Valencia GT6 II - little Blue, 1980 Vermillion 1500HL - resting. 1974 Sienna 1500TC, Mrs Weevils big brown.

data book says clearance is 4 1/4 in / 108mm with 4 up
in the car

Valid point Jonners, but Tracking does not affect the camber

Not sure what you mean by a rose joint , but the Track Control Arm inner bush (void bush) could be drawn to make the tca longer and still not be a fail!

The reason why I started this thread is there is clearly some odd issue which there are more than one of us expirencing and I can't see why! Begining to wonder if the subframe is sagging with age!

Changed that on Blue too!
Tinweevil

The TCA inner bush is a rose joint/rod end bearing type, not a rubber bush. (except for the people who for some reason have swapped for poly)

David

hi,

the 1850 i bought the other week has raised and stiffened fron suspension to stop the fronts scrubbing off,, because over the years the front end sags down and changes the camber - thus scrubbing the tyres clean

What did they do to it? Is it the springs or the turrets moving? Must admit, most dolly's look nose down. Will measure ride heights and have a look at this. If its springs, easily resolved. If its turret move, a far more serious issue!

beacause of the springs, not the turrets,

the chap had a few dolly sprints and 1850s over 25 years and found they all started to sag at the nose, scrubbing the front tyres off, changed the front suspension and fixed the problem.

to try and stay on track, just my opinion on the whole story... i reckon any combination of the above mentioned could cause the problem, and eliminating 1 of them isnt necessarily going to cure the problem completely:

bushes will cause things to float about excessively under load (replace the whole fookin lot with poly)

lowered with no camber adjustment i.e. CAMBER SHIMS, the clue is in the name of the part?! tired springs constitues lowering, and even 1" lower means the "vertical links" arent necessarily vertical any more. geometry - look at where the pivot points and fixed points are, the links will only stay vertical at varying height if the 'trapezium' created by top wishbones, bottom bar, vertical link and mount that bolts onto the subframe can pivot freely at all 4 corners, ball joints DONT allow pivotal movement in the directions needed to allow the wheels to remain perpendicular to the side of the subframe.

worn top ball joints

worn bottom ball joints

too much toe in will wear tyres on the outside

too much toe out will wear tyres on the inside

too much -ve camber will wear tyres on the inside and causes instability at speed in straight lines

too much +ve camber will wear tyres on the outside, and is fookin dangerous

worn track rod ends will make little difference but play will be felt in the steering, and wheel alignment can float under load

"tracking" is where the wheels point at a neutral steering position and adjusting will achieve little apart from toe in/toe out, but duff adjustment, i.e. wheels not pointing at same angles will cause the 'pulling' to left or right, and will also promote uneven tyre wear.

rose jointed bottom arms can also allow camber adjustment as you'll achieve the similar to adding or removing camber shims, but you'll probably have to make them yourself, see alg1k!

turret movement? blimey, nice welding project required!

any changes to anything suspension related, and getting tracking checked and adjusted should be common sense?!

my work here is done...

bonsoir!

Double checked. The bush at the inboard end of the TCA is definately rubber with a metal insert ie void type bush.

THe combined angles and others mentioned make all sorts of changes to the characteristics. Certainly I feel the bushes ar e key. THere are certainly no faults with the ball joints on the cars I mentioned, so we are back to springs and turrets. THe next stage is to check ride heighs adn spring lengths, etc, as well as a 4 wheel alignment, which will highlight if there is an issue concerning ride height!

Interestingly, something I noticed whilst checking something, I don't recall 1300 fwd having anti roll bars!

As for turrets sagging, I thing its a bit more scientific than cutting and welding!

Will do some more investigation the weekend and report back

A couple of years ago I thought the handling wasn't quite right on my sprint, I changed the springs. When one of the springs was unloaded, it fell apart into three pieces, two of the other springs where found to have cracks in them! So worth while checking if suspect a problem.

Looks like they could be the missing link! I know most of us consider they should last a good while, but with speed bumps and sopter rides, modern spring failure is common (at least 2 manufacturers have recalls running!). Will do some research into prices, possible an option the club may stock them if its going to be a widespread priblem? (Will give Owen Springs a ring)

early (void bushes) were superseded to the rose type joint in about 75/6
just at the time of the high lines. there were strut braces available long ago dont know if they are still made and would obviously stop flexing of the turrets as for sagging hard to belive that a non rusty one would sag as they are reasonably close to the bulk head and seem quite rigid
think i'd be inclined to check out the steering/suspension geometry as a first (a complete castor /camber / kpi )


springs.........
ford must have one out on the focus these seem to be breaking springs reguarly

is controllled by wishbone bushes and ball joints. The Springs have no effect....this is not a Macphersoon strut car...it has wishbones.
I fail to see how the body turrets could move enough to affect the geometry even when the car is a basket case....cos its all done in the subframe anyway. Ball joints wear....ergo they are the most likely cause.
there are IIRC 4 a side...top and bottom b/j and inner and outer tre.
The track rod ends have the largest effect and wear in inners will possibly be missed at Mot time cos the joint is dangling. Ive had extremely mixed experience of competence in tracking adjustment too. You want to see proper alignment kit properly setup. Most muppets at quick fit tyre places havent a clue. You also want wheel bearings with NO play....ie setup properly. If you can rock the wheel top to bottom you havent a prayer of getting the tracking right. As soon as you move the car it will go off!
It WILL be your tracking...get that right and uneven tyre wear will disappear. Trust me I know...None of mine do it now I have a man who tracks them right...
Ive had all sorts of experts claim its the inner wihsbone bush wearing and putting camber out....its all been bollox quite honestly but the trouble is it is kinda plausible. Like I said...ive changed these once in you all know how much dolomiting...
I'll say it agin...ITS THE TRACKING!

Jonners

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Note from Admin: sadly Jon passed away in February 2018 but his humour and wealth of knowledge will be fondly remembered by all. RIP Jonners.

You are right there Jon. After many years of expirence lookign at bent cars, the only way to do it properly is 4 wheel alignment. the latest thing is preloading the vehicle - kds. If the spring sags, it will alter the point to which is the norm of the geometry. The rack only alters the toe in/out and alignment within Ackermans theory. The problem is camber in this case.

All my vehicles are pre 1976 so are all rubber bushed in the inner tca area. All the ball joints are ok.

As for turrets, certainly they look very stiff. As I said in an earlyier reply, it was a colleage of mine's theory from when he worked on our cars when they were still quite new. I don't feel it was valid, but not impossible. However, what I would expect to see is flitch deformation and movement in the wing flange, as found on 1300fwd with corrosion problems. Its not very likely on a dolly type vehicle as the strutt is much stiffer.

Bushes and springs are the favorite at the min


matte of interest, one of the manufacturers with recalls is Vauxhall (rear springs on astra's) Renault also had a big problem with laguna's.