The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

Another great idea here:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/25102006/325/g ... -hike.html

Whilst I agree in principle with the idea of reducing our emissions, I see this as a cynical money making exercise. I mean, the Renault Espace in the highest group? Well, that clearly won't affect large families then. What are they supposed to do?

Also this idea that selling your gas guzzler and buying a Prius is better for the environment - well, it needs building. And building the bloody thing produces more emissions than the car will expel in it's lifetime. I think they should be giving tax breaks to those driving older cars, as in effect we are helping reduce emissions by not scrapping the old cars and forcing the production of even more new cars.

It may be Richmond today, one of the richest areas of the country, but you can be almost certain it will happen in most local authority areas soon.

that means we subsidise jonny two jags then or is he not in his office ! just nipped out too buy some lexus hybrids ?
what a farce ! if you cannot buy what you want for fear of some over zealous prat from some political party jumping on the green bandwagon
if it were not for us buying the fuel the petrol companies and the chancelor would start raising prices ? or tax ? maybe they should tax the hot air thats emited from their offices as they aren't there for us they only chose to represent us as an easy way to get a little bit of extra cash to pay for the gas guzzlers they drive .......

I can understand the Chelsea Tractor theory - do you really need a V8 Range Rover for driving in Richmond? Err, no.

However, a reasonably economical diesel people carrier, for a big family... why should they pay more exactly?

What really distresses me though is that both my classics should be tax exempt. I drive 15,000 miles a year in my modern, which obviously I have to pay road tax on, but why should I pay road tax on my classics? I can only drive one at once for goodness sake....

Historic Vehicle Tax Exemption - one of the good things the tories did, that labour took away.

I wrote to my MP a few years ago about the possibilty of the 25 year tax exception being rolling, I eventually got a letter back (i think) from the Dept of Transport (cannot remember who it was as I through it away in disgust).

It said that they were actively discouraging the use of private cars and trying to encourage everyone to use public transport.

The local NHS health authority over here has introduced a parking fee of £75.00 per year for employees to park in the hospital car park, anyone who isn't an employee must pay £1.00 per hour - how disgusting is that? Visitors and those who undergoing day surgery must pay and if they are left waiting (as it is with a hospital appointment) you either have to pop out during your appointment to feed the meter or even get up of the operating table and go and pay!

Those who work there are in affect asked to pay the hospital to go to work there, the hospital says the charges are to cover the cost of employing the manangement firm to patrol the car park and "protect the environment and encourage the use of public transport and car sharing". Which of course is utter bollocks, it's just way of squeezing money from motorists as all that revenue CANNOT equate to the costs of two fat blokes in hi-vis jackets driving a van around a hospital car park every hour, getting out, leaving its engine running whist they look at the windscreen stickers of parked cars.

My wife works at the hospital, they are up in arms about it (rightly so).

Also, I believe that if a political party was formed, for arguments sake called "The Motorists Party" that stood for the single issue of fair charges for ALL motorists, - tax, fuel, parking etc, no other political policies at all.

They'd win

Then they would say they were prepaired to stand down to whoever came second on the understanding that their "motorist policy" was adopted.

I'd like to see that happen.

yes think your right think it's about time someone realised its the motorist that keeps this country afloat (inc speeding fines . stealth tax !)
if they didn't have that revenue then they would never be able to bankroll any aggresion anywhere either and let us pay for it (tax payernot dole spongers)
i wonder how ££££ revenue they aquire from just one days fuel sales
and yes i realy think they would win too

I thought that we were all taxed anyway though fuel, the more you drive , the more emissions you emit ,the more fuel you have to buy.
but on the plus side it is good seeing our highway taxes being spent on the highways agency 'police'. it is making my job a lot easier and safer in some cases having them attend incidents to assit in traffic diversion ect. and it means i dont have to clear up after picking up a damaged car.

Road Fund Licence these days is merely a tax on ownership especially on older cars that are seldom used. We have a perfectly good tax system for dealing with less environmentially friendly cars called fuel tax.

Maybe someone should point out that only 20% of the UK's CO2 comes from all forms of road transport and to stop picking on the motorist.

However I agree that there is no point in owning a Range Rover if you live in a city, a Prius or similar produces more CO2 to produce than it will save in its lifetime. The Prius and co were developed for the American market where the idea of a car that does over 40mpg is a novelty. In Europe where we drive diesels with low CO2 emissions they are a fashion item and a fad.

As for increasing parking charges for thirsty cars why charge more when it is parked? Clearly the Liberal Democrat council has been eating too much muesli again. What's interesting are some of the cars that could be affected by such a change. Cars in Band's E and F include: a Ford Mondeo and a Mini which people tend to associate with being small and economical.

Maybe if the council bothered to switch its lights off at night it wouldn't need to raise taxes in this dispicable manner.

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Mark

1961 Chevrolet Corvair Greenbrier Sportswagon
1980 Dolomite Sprint project using brand new shell
2009 Mazda MX5 2.0 Sport
2018 Infiniti Q30

I suggest everyone goes on the Richmond web site and replies to their consultation request form for comments about these proposals.
A big enough outcry could yet get this madness stopped.

Use arguments like Prius taking more Co2 to make than it will ever save and it being a rich mans gimmick tax dodge....and foreaign non eu import too.!

Jonners

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Note from Admin: sadly Jon passed away in February 2018 but his humour and wealth of knowledge will be fondly remembered by all. RIP Jonners.

Prius suffers cruddy fuel consumption anyway. Most modern diesels are about 25%+ more efficient than that joke on wheels....

<wonders off thinking about the merits of 30 year old engines that could do 40mpg+>

Nail firmly hit on head!

Going off on a bit of a tangent..

Carbon emissions are pretty much recognised as leading us to oblivion - but why pick on any one particular potential CO2 emitting item such as a car?

You can own a bloody humvee and cycle to work during the week and still produce less co2 than some numpty in a 'Pius'. The type of car you drive is irrelevant - its how much you drive it that counts. Plus you could live in a draughty old barn and use more co2 to heat it than you save running a low emission car.

'Green' taxes are headline news again tonight, but there is very little clue as to what will happen to the additional revenue? It'll probably just get lost in subsidising the workshy civil service. Where's the commitment to better public transport and investment in low carbon technology R&D?

Its all bollocks anyway, forget wind and solar power and all that crap. The world needs to ignore the scaremongering great unwashed and go nuclear, and develop fuel cells and home grown biofuels to run cars so we can be a self sufficient nation.

I see it as just another attempt to get more money off us. If people can afford to pay extra for something they like then they will, regardless of the effect it will have long term on the climate etc.

Apparently one of the greatest contributors to greenhouse gasses after considering motor vehicle polution is flatulence in livestock.

Let's start exploding the myth then.

Fact One

Prius, Rx400hLexus, GS 400h Lexus and the Honda Civic alternative ALL cost more to make (in emissions and pound notes) than their simpler petrol alternatives.

Fact Two

When these vehicles have reached the end of their lives they will cost nearly three times as much to dispose of as their simple petrol alternatives. This time will be much sooner than normal cars owing to the sheer expense of repairing the technology involved. Imagine the proud owner of a £3K Lexus being quoted five grand for a new motor or battery bank? You know the rest.

Fact Three

My last company ran five Toyota Prius saloons. My current company runs a Lexus RX400h (the hybrid 4x4).

Fact Four

In use the Prius' (all with different drivers of totally different ages and with totally different driving styles) all returned MPG figures in the high 30's/early 40's - decent but not exceptional figures these days for what is effectively a 1.6 saloon. On a motorway none of them would better 35 mpg.

Fact Five

It is true that if used ONLY in a city environment and in stop start traffic at that so that they run only on the electric motor as much as possible, these vehicles can produce excellent emission and consumtion figures. In reality almost no persons driving takes this form.

Fact Six

As mentioned in Four above, these vehicles are, by their manufacturers admission, extremely inefficient at motorway speed.

Fact Seven

My new Nissan Murano SUV (3.5 litres, 250 bhp, petrol engine) returns 23-25 mpg in my mixed driving. My colleagues' Lexus RX 400H hybrid returns 22-24 mpg. Except at town crawler speeds our emissions are effectively identical.

Fact Eight

These vehicles are a total sideshow, and are a commercial, and rich persons gimmick. Hybrid technology actually works best on big heravy cumbersome slow vehicles - it has a bright future in the commercial vehicle industry I am sure.

Fact Nine

My 1968 Triumph 1300FWD will do 0-60 in 16 secs, top 90 mph and regularly averages 33-38 mpg. My neighbours new Fiesta 1.4 (2006) will do 0-60 in about 13 secs, tops 103 mph and achieves 33-38 mpg. My emissions are consistently below 3.5% as are his. That is 40 years of technical progress for you. Don't get me wrong, his car is quiet, safer to crash in, has better brakes, and many more gizmos, but those remain the raw facts.

Fact Ten

Our (and in fairness other) Governments continue to uphold the motorist as the arch enemy of the planet. In fact, as stated previously, under 20% of our total CO emissions come from ALL forms of motor transport. The burden of tax on motorists in this nation has mushroomed out of all proportion, to the extent that we are now one of the most expensive countries in Europe to own and run a car.

I am sick of all the sh1t that is being talked about these issues. There is just so much mis-information. We must stick up for our corner.

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Martin.

2021 Land Rover Discovery Sport HSE PHEV
2021 Dacia Duster 1.3 TCe
1963 Austin A40 Rally Car
2021 Honda Cross Tourer Highlander

Martin talks absolute sense.
the trouble is i cannot think of a single politician in any party that is prepared to stand up and defend the car and the HUGE benefits its has brought to society.
Public transport is just not viable for a huge number of domestic tasks....its inefficient, slow, unpleasant and expensive.

So what do we do? The only way is to en masse lobby the councils, bombard the chat rooms, right letters to MP's, find out about every proposed new traffic light, speed camera, speed limit reduction and oppose them. Complain about every single unecessary roadworks speed limit you drive through and lets get some of these FACTS into the public domain. Lets stop this tree hugging leftie anti car agenda that grips th3 BBC, media and politcial parties. FGS did you see question time? NOBODY spoke against the anti 4x4 misinformation. Bias or what!

The way to save the planet is to go Nuclear big time, (Tonies sole good contribution) stop the third world oiks from trashing their rain forrests and switch your leccy stuff off at night....especially in the office, not catch a bus and sell your car.

The sad truth is that PR man Cameron has worked out that the way to get elected is to go with the next big idea...which is to be seen to be green. There is no hope....
Jonners

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Note from Admin: sadly Jon passed away in February 2018 but his humour and wealth of knowledge will be fondly remembered by all. RIP Jonners.