The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

A colleague of mine has just phoned to say his car has failed the MoT test and won't be in tomorrow. My question is, can he still drive his car, as the current MoT doesn't run out for a few more days. I'm guessing he can't?

_________________
Sprintless for the first time in 35+ years.

2007 Porsche Boxster S




Grammar:
The difference between knowing your sh#t and knowing you're sh#t.

Schedule: Pronounced "Shedule" not "Skedule"!

I'm fairly sure the answer is no.

_________________
Mark

1961 Chevrolet Corvair Greenbrier Sportswagon
1980 Dolomite Sprint project using brand new shell
2009 Mazda MX5 2.0 Sport
2018 Infiniti Q30

As I understand it the law has changed. It used to be the case that regardless of the nature of the failure you could drive it until the MOT ran out (however you ran the risk of being stopped and prosecuted for driving an unsafe vehicle... just not driving without an MOT)
However the new law is that if your failure is because of "dangerous" items it invalidates the MOT regardless of whether it's expired or not.

Cheers, SAm

_________________

If you test your car early and it fails, it does not have a current MoT. As the system is now computerised, the failure over rides the previous MoT pass.

This is going to be an open cash register for dodgy mot garages. I hate to think how many brake pads, disc's shockers tyre's and exhausts the like's of "QWIK S**t" are going to sell because people will be afraid to drive away and get a second opinion

Tony.

_________________
NOW A CLUB MEMBER 2017057

LISTEN VERY CAREFULLY, I WILL SAY THIS ONLY ONCE!

The rules have NOT changed! They are the same as they have always been and your MOT is valid till the day of expiry REGARDLESS of being failed in the interim. If you check the DVSA/DVLA database on a failed car, the failure will show up, but the expiry date of MOT will still be that of the last pass. The failure, even of "dangerous" faults does NOT override the previous test as it is NOT a "certificate of roadworthiness" in ANY sense. It merely says that certain parts of the car met certain criteria "AT THE TIME OF THE TEST", not 10 minutes later, let alone 11.5 MONTHS!

So you cannot be prosecuted for no MOT under these circumstances. But If you drive the car with an uncorrected fault that was picked up on an MOT (causing a failure) it will still leave you liable to prosecution under C+U regulations.

It is my understanding that the ONLY thing that has changed, is that the fact of the failure is now available on ANPR, so a cop will KNOW it has been failed and thereby have a reason to stop you and something to look for! But he has no ability to charge you on the basis of the failure alone as this would be regarded as "hearsay evidence, based on an opinion" (which it IS) and thrown out of court, so he would have to ascertain that the fault DID still exist (you may have repaired it in the meantime) and that the car was in breach of C+U regs, easy at the roadside if it was a bald tyre, much harder for a worn bush in the rear suspension or similar.

But my advice here, is to take the car home (or to the garage of your choice) and get it fixed before driving it around. Because YOU are responsible for maintaining your car in a roadworthy condition and one thing is ABSOLUTELY certain, if you are unfortunate enough to be involved in an accident in a failed car, your insurance will NOT pay out!

One more thing, the testing station has NO right to stop you driving your car away, no matter how "dangerous" the faults on the failure, furthermore even if the car has NO MOT you are still legal to drive it to a prebooked MOT AND drive it home or "to a place of repair" if it fails. This is to stop precicely the open cash register that Dollyman is afraid of. And if you are daft enough to get your car MOT'd at Thicktwit (or contemporaries) you DESERVE what you get!

Steve

_________________
2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 45 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.

The classification of advisories changes Steve. If you have a ‘dangerous’ fault from 20 May, it is the opinion of the tester that will prevent you legally driving the car away:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/mot- ... 0-may-2018

My tester uses the exact same logic as you have, that the test certificate is a snapshot in time, so the most recent is the one that now takes precedent and invalidates the previous. A vehicle that does not have a valid mot can only be driven to a pre-booked place of repair or retest.

Hearsay or not, should it reach court the salient questions would be did the vehicle have fault, was the driver aware? The only defence to yes answers in such a situation would be that the fault had been repaired in which case reliance on the previous MoT certificate might be possible, or the vehicle was being driven to a place of repair or retest for a pre booked appointment.

Back to the gist of the post, were I Mart’s colleague, I wouldn’t have risked driving to work either.

The critical word here is "opinion", courts only work on facts/proof. The current MOT fail system has a facility to list faults as "dangerous" and some faults MUST be so listed, regardless of tester opinion. So really, not much has changed! And there is STILL NOTHING that can LEGALLY prevent you removing your vehicle from a testing station, if you choose to drive it, that's your prerogative! This right is enshrined in common law, rather than DVSA regs (the car is YOUR property and the garage has no right to effectively "confiscate" it) so that takes precedence.

With only 5 weeks to go till these rules are implemented, DVSA is STILL squabbling with itself and others about HOW it will work (particularly the brake fluid check but some others as well) and up to Monday, (the last time I was at a testing station to ask) NO instructions have so far reached the men on the front line, the testers!

In other news, the Carledo passed it's MOT on Monday with no advisories (insert "smug" smiley here)

Steve

_________________
2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 45 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.

Steve is spot on and if a car fails but still has a valid MOT in force a police ANPR will show as the car having a valid MOT.
As for the tester deeming an item Dangerous it is as said just an opinion of the tester and the police can not take any action in that respect unless a qualified police mechanic also states it is dangerous (tickets can be given for faults and a FPN for no MOT) but as most testers want to keep their licence they won't declare something dangerous if it wasn't.

So back to the original subject it doesn't matter what the MOT ticket states as it is up to the driver to ensure the car is safe and roadworthy, an MOT is not prove the car is roadworthy just as a failure doesn't mean its not roadworthy.
Out of interest what did it fail on?

_________________
Some people are like Slinky's, they serve no real purpose in life but bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.

Thanks for the replies guys.

I think the main thing it failed on was the emissions. There were other things but I can't remember what he told me now. He's going to get a new(er) car now. Probably a Golf.

_________________
Sprintless for the first time in 35+ years.

2007 Porsche Boxster S




Grammar:
The difference between knowing your sh#t and knowing you're sh#t.

Schedule: Pronounced "Shedule" not "Skedule"!

I take it that was another "pass" then?

_________________
NOW A CLUB MEMBER 2017057

With my own cars if they fail the MoT they won't leave the garage until they have passed a retest. The Vectra was different because it wasn't mine when it was tested (7th of February) and I was sorting out most of the remedial work myself. It is going back in for the remainder of the remedial work (just a corroded front brake pipe) and the retest and it won't leave without the MoT certificate.

Mart, I know it is irrelevant but the best way to prevent failing the emissions part of the test is to service the car and do a fuel system treatment prior to the MoT. It has worked for me every time even on the Vectra.

_________________
Toledo Man

West Yorkshire Area Organiser & forum moderator
Meetings take place on the first Wednesday of the month at 8.00pm at The Old Brickworks, Wakefield Road, Drighlington, Bradford, BD11 1EA
1972 Dolomite 1850 auto (NYE 751L - The rolling restoration)
2008 Citroën C4 Grand Picasso 2.0 HDi Exclusive (MA08 WCL - the workhorse)
1995 BMW 318i (M265 PNC - Project Bimmer, the weekend car)
1991 Toyota Celica GT (J481 ONB - the new project car)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!

Check my blog at http://triumphtoledo.blogspot.com

"There is only one way to avoid criticsm: do nothing, say nothing and BE nothing." Aristotle