The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:40 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:49 am
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Location: Wellington NZ
Hi All

What size steering wheel do people think works best in a 1500 Toledo?

I'm thinking of getting a 14" dished wheel from Rimmers but wonder if it is going to make the steering to heavy around town (with 175 tyres)

I see from the Ken Woods in car rally videos on You tube - looks like he uses a 14in wheel in his car?

I might try the standard steering wheel out of my stag first and see how that feels....

cheers

Alastair

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Alastair Cox
1971 Triumph Toledo
1975 Triumph Stag
2001 BMW 530i


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 Post subject: That is ............
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:08 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:22 pm
Posts: 6353
Location: Caithness, Scotland
A good question!

I think it is very subjective and depends on each individual's preference.


There are two steering rack ratios (3.75 turns and 3.25 turns lock to lock).
I am thinking you have the higher ratio rack?
Trying the alternative s/wheel is what I would do.


For my Sprint, which will have 185 tyres and a higher ratio s/rack, I am going to try
a 13" steering wheel. Heavy steering doesn't bother me any.




Ian.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:46 pm 
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Location: Canvey Island, Essex
My 1974 4-door Triumph Toledo 1300 "HL Special" has been equipped with two different steering wheels during its lifetime.

Originally, it had the standard factory-fitted Toledo two-spoke (black) unpadded steering wheel of circa 16 inches diameter with rigid-black-plastic central trim pad .

In 1982, for reasons originally associated with having a steering-column-mounted windscreen wiper & washer stalk-switch, instead of a dashboard-mounted windscreen wiper & washer rotary-switch, I substituted a Triumph Dolomite 1500/1850HL adjustable steering column, complete with three-spoke (satin-finish chromium plated) leather-covered, padded steering wheel of circa 14½ inches diameter with circular black-foam central trim pad (embossed with the word “TRIUMPH” rather than “DOLOMITE”).

For both comfort and convenience, I prefer the Dolomite HL 14½ inches diameter, padded steering wheel. However, I have found the satin-finish chromium plated spokes to be a source of uncomfortable and debilitating glare, arising from reflected sunlight at certain incident angles. Before I complete renovation work on my car, I either need to paint the spokes with satin-black or matt-black paint, or find a substitute steering wheel with black spokes.

Having a smaller-diameter steering wheel, makes it easier and more convenient to operate the two steering-column-mounted, combination stalk-switches [for (a) headlamp dip & flash, direction indicators and horn, and (b) windscreen washers & wipers and single flick-wipe] with one’s finger tips, whilst still holding the steering-wheel rim.

The leather-covered padded steering-wheel rim, is easier and more comfortable to hold, during either hot or cold weather. The rim became neither too hot nor too cold to hold. In hot weather, my sweaty hands can better grip the leather steering-wheel glove and in winter, my hands don’t get unbearably cold as they did when gripping the Toledo’s original uninsulated-steel steering-wheel rim.

Being of smaller diameter, the steering wheel is more comfortable for me to hold and turn when steering; possibly because I am of relatively slight physical build (i.e. not broad across the shoulders) and there is probably an optimal separation between one’s hands for comfort, dependent upon the separation between the one’s shoulder joints (i.e. ball & socket joints at the heads of the humorous bones).

Broad-shouldered people, might find the 16 inch diameter steering wheel to be more comfortable to hold, but will find the stalk-switches less easy and convenient to operate.

I have used the Dolomite HL 14½ inch diameter steering wheel on my Toledo, in conjunction with the following wheel & tyre combinations:

175 SR13 (i.e. 175/80 SR13) tyres on 5½ x 13 inch Cosmic aluminium-alloy wheels (21 mm offset)

185/70 SR13 tyres on 5½ x 13 inch Cosmic aluminium-alloy wheels (21 mm offset)

185/70 SR13 tyres on 5½J x 13 inch Dolomite Sprint GKN aluminium-alloy wheels (35 mm offset)

For none of these combinations of wheel & tyre, was the steering excessively heavy for urban driving or parking in tight spaces; even for a 9½ stone (i.e. 60 kg) weakling like me!

In the future, in an attempt to future-proof my Triumph Toledo regarding availability and economical cost of replacement tyres, I shall be using one or other of the following wheel & tyre combinations:

185/65 R15 tyres on 5½J x 15 inch MG 2000 Maestro cross-lattice style aluminium-alloy wheels (31 mm offset)

185/60 R15 tyres on 5½J x 15 inch MG 2000 Maestro cross-lattice style aluminium-alloy wheels (31 mm offset)

185/55 R15 tyres on 5½J x 15 inch MG 2000 Maestro cross-lattice style aluminium-alloy wheels (31 mm offset)

I shall probably be using my existing Dolomite HL 14½ inch diameter steering wheel on my Toledo, to steer one or other of the aforementioned wheel & tyre combinations, with which I don’t anticipate any difficulty.

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Nigel A. Skeet

Independent tutor of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering, for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.

https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=308177758

Upgraded 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 (Toledo / Dolomite HL / Sprint hybrid)

Onetime member + magazine editor & technical editor of Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club


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 Post subject: Re: That is ............
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:41 pm 
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Quote:

There are two steering rack ratios (3.75 turns and 3.25 turns lock to lock).
I am thinking you have the higher ratio rack?

Trying the alternative s/wheel is what I would do.

Ian.
More than 20 years ago, I replaced the original steering rack on my 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300, with what appeared to be a relatively new or reconditioned one that I salvaged from a Triumph Dolomite 13/1500 at one of my local car breakers' yards, so I am not sure what the rack ratio is, but I could measure how many turns are required lock-to-lock.

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Nigel A. Skeet

Independent tutor of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering, for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.

https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=308177758

Upgraded 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 (Toledo / Dolomite HL / Sprint hybrid)

Onetime member + magazine editor & technical editor of Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:27 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:12 pm
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Location: Highley, Shropshire
I'm using a stock 14.5" Dolomite wheel on the Carledo with a standard rack AND 195/50/15 tyres! (also has solid rack mounts) Sure it's a little heavy when stationary, but even a couple of MPH is enough to make it fine and on the road the steering is light, precise and positive.

A word on "quick racks" I thought the choices were "standard", 3.25 turns lock to lock and "quick" 2.75 turns. To this end I today checked the quick rack I have squirelled away for use on the Carledo (when I get round to it) and it is indeed 2.75 turns. So either I have a unique rack, or the 3.75/3.25 figure is wrong. The 2.75 turn rack came fitted to my Sprint auto, what use THAT car had for a quick rack is beyond me! I was going to keep it on the Sprint and marry it to an EPS system, but now that plan has fallen out of bed (I need the 2 points for standard steering to meet the "8 point rule" ) so it might as well go on the more track oriented car!

I have a rather nice 13.5" Momo wheel to go on the Sprint, but since i've not yet driven the car with this wheel fitted, i'm reserving judgement on how well it works!

Another factor is that Dolomites vary wildly from car to car in how heavy the steering is to operate! I have experienced everthing from nervously twitchy and far too light on a stock Toledo (mostly down to excessive toe in and knackered inner TCA bushes) to a certain well known 1500SE where the steering was excessively heavy and wooden and also was heavier turning right than left AND had considerable play in it too! Faults here were, knackered track rod ends, a worn and graunchy rack, ruined lower coupling bushes, a partially seized upper column UJ, and a problem with the upper column itself, which I couldn't identify clearly, but even disconnected from the rest of the car, it would spin freely to the left, but would stop dead as soon as you physically stopped turning it to the right and seemed to get tighter the more you turned, like winding up a clock spring. I also changed out the lower balljoints, that was for wear, not seizure, but that makes it a clean sweep, I had to renew EVERYTHING and now the steering is as it should be! The moral being, before you say it's folly to fit a small (or smallER) wheel, be certain your steering is, in fact, working properly!

There is also the thorny old problem of tyre pressures, but that's one can of worms i'm not going to open here!

Steve

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2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 45 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 06, 2014 3:38 pm
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Location: Canvey Island, Essex
According to the official BLMC Toledo & Dolomite manuals, early models had the same 3 turns lock to lock, but for later models the Toledo 13/1500 had 3¼ or 3•25 turns lock to lock, whilst the Dolomite 1850 had 3¾ or 3•75 turns lock to lock. It appears that the Dolomite’s turning circle between kerbs is 12 inches larger than that of the Toledo, but why that might be I’m not sure!?!

According to the information on Page 04-2, Section 04 - General Specification Data, of the official BLMC Triumph Toledo 13/1500 Repair Operation Manual (Publication Part No. 545168/2E), the Triumph Toledo was equipped with a 16 inch (407 mm) diameter steering wheel with padded spokes and centre boss, and had two steering rack options as follows; which might differ from what was available for the Triumph 1500, 1500TC and various Dolomite models:

Early Models – 3 turns lock to lock

Later Models – 3¼ turns (three and one quarter turns) lock to lock

It further states that the turning circle between kerbs is 29 feet 9 inches (9•1 metres)

According to the information on Page 04-2, Section 04 - General Specification Data, of the official BLMC Triumph Dolomite 1850 Repair Operation Manual, Second Edition, 1973 (Publication Part No. 545206), the Triumph Dolomite was equipped with a 16 inch (407 mm) diameter steering wheel for early-models and a 14•5 inch (368 mm) diameter steering wheel for early-models. There were two steering rack options as follows:

Early Models – 3 turns lock to lock

Later Models – 3¾ turns (three and three quarter turns) lock to lock

It further states that the turning circle between kerbs is 30 feet 9 inches (9•4 metres)

_________________
Regards.

Nigel A. Skeet

Independent tutor of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering, for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.

https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=308177758

Upgraded 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 (Toledo / Dolomite HL / Sprint hybrid)

Onetime member + magazine editor & technical editor of Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club


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