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 Post subject: Oxy/Acet Set
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:00 pm 
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Location: Outer Hebrides
I've given up my BOC bottles so looking for an alternative set.

I've so far enquired about "Hobby Weld" and "SGS" bottles, but has anyone got experience of them and do the BOC regs work with them.

SGS offer an Acet alternative rather than Acet, Profluid, but is it has hot.

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Triumph Dolomite Sprint,RNK 957W

Built 26/6/1980 (one of the last built), Auto, Porcelain White - Genuine Mileage 52,820 (warranted).

Only 3 previous owners, (2 within the same family).

Supplied by Lavender Hill Garage Ltd, Enfield, London, by garage owner Jimmy Metcalfe on 30th September 1980 to Geoffery Robinson, Enfield.

Club Membership No: 2017092


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 Post subject: Re: Oxy/Acet Set
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:17 pm 
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You need a licence (from the local authority/council) to keep and use Acetylene, it's horrendously volatile! And will need to comply with all sorts of H+S regs. Even garages these days can't be bothered with the faff. Especially when there are much better ways of welding than with gas.

The modern hobbyist sets use Propane and Oxygen which is not as hot (or as dangerous) as Acetylene but fine if all you need it for is warming up corroded fittings or using as a "gas axe" or for brazing.

I've not tried to get oxy/propane from Hobbyweld but I use their 5% Argon/Co2 mix for my Mig, it's a lot cheaper and more convenient than BOC who want over £100pa just to have the bottle in my possession, let alone the price they charge for the gas itself (plus delivery fee, even if I collected it myself, robbing b'stards) My current Hobbyweld supplier is even open Sundays, The BOC agents didn't even work Saturdays!

Steve

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'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: Oxy/Acet Set
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:52 pm 
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You need a licence (from the local authority/council) to keep and use Acetylene, it's horrendously volatile! And will need to comply with all sorts of H+S regs. Even garages these days can't be bothered with the faff. Especially when there are much better ways of welding than with gas.

The modern hobbyist sets use Propane and Oxygen which is not as hot (or as dangerous) as Acetylene but fine if all you need it for is warming up corroded fittings or using as a "gas axe" or for brazing.

I've not tried to get oxy/propane from Hobbyweld but I use their 5% Argon/Co2 mix for my Mig, it's a lot cheaper and more convenient than BOC who want over £100pa just to have the bottle in my possession, let alone the price they charge for the gas itself (plus delivery fee, even if I collected it myself, robbing b'stards) My current Hobbyweld supplier is even open Sundays, The BOC agents didn't even work Saturdays!

Steve
Thanks Steve.

There's no licence required in Scotland from the local authority to have bottles, providing you have paid the appropriate fees to the retailer. It's no different to having portable domestic gas bottles. We might have crap weather, but we don't pay silly taxes like that, shame on the Westminster Government.

I wouldn't bother with anything other than oxy/acet, I've used them all in my job over the years and have no patience for anything other than what acetylene offers, instant heat and perfect cutting properties.

What I'm trying to find is the best deal, and whether BOC sets fit any of the alternative bottles.

_________________
Triumph Dolomite Sprint,RNK 957W

Built 26/6/1980 (one of the last built), Auto, Porcelain White - Genuine Mileage 52,820 (warranted).

Only 3 previous owners, (2 within the same family).

Supplied by Lavender Hill Garage Ltd, Enfield, London, by garage owner Jimmy Metcalfe on 30th September 1980 to Geoffery Robinson, Enfield.

Club Membership No: 2017092


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 Post subject: Re: Oxy/Acet Set
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:50 pm 
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Location: Harrow Middlesex
Hi Murdo

i used to have a BOC gas bottle account,but gave if up as was getting to dear,i now have a gas bottle from one of the hobby gas suppliers,the gas regulator is the same,but if you use pub gas your then need a different type of regulator

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Oxy/Acet Set
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:43 am 
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Location: Outer Hebrides
Quote:
Hi Murdo

i used to have a BOC gas bottle account,but gave if up as was getting to dear,i now have a gas bottle from one of the hobby gas suppliers,the gas regulator is the same,but if you use pub gas your then need a different type of regulator

Dave
Have you got their acet & oxy Dave.

What's the 'pub gas'?

_________________
Triumph Dolomite Sprint,RNK 957W

Built 26/6/1980 (one of the last built), Auto, Porcelain White - Genuine Mileage 52,820 (warranted).

Only 3 previous owners, (2 within the same family).

Supplied by Lavender Hill Garage Ltd, Enfield, London, by garage owner Jimmy Metcalfe on 30th September 1980 to Geoffery Robinson, Enfield.

Club Membership No: 2017092


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 Post subject: Re: Oxy/Acet Set
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:28 am 
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Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire
Pub gas could be either carbon dioxide or carbon dioxide/nitrogen mixture.

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Toledo Man

West Yorkshire Area Organiser & forum moderator
Meetings take place on the first Wednesday of the month at 8.00pm at The Old Brickworks, Wakefield Road, Drighlington, Bradford, BD11 1EA

1972 Dolomite 1850 auto (NYE 751L - Now for sale)
2003 Volvo XC90 D5 SE (PX53 OVZ - The daily driver)
2009 Mercedes-Benz W204 C200 CDI Sport (BJ58 NCV - The 2nd car)
1991 Toyota Celica GT (J481 ONB - another project car)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!

Check my blog at http://triumphtoledo.blogspot.com
My YouTube Channel with a bit of Dolomite content.

"There is only one way to avoid criticsm: Do nothing, say nothing and BE nothing." Aristotle


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 Post subject: Re: Oxy/Acet Set
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:27 am 
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Location: Outer Hebrides
Quote:
Pub gas could be either carbon dioxide or carbon dioxide/nitrogen mixture.
Not for my garage then, for a barrel of beer 😂😛🤔

_________________
Triumph Dolomite Sprint,RNK 957W

Built 26/6/1980 (one of the last built), Auto, Porcelain White - Genuine Mileage 52,820 (warranted).

Only 3 previous owners, (2 within the same family).

Supplied by Lavender Hill Garage Ltd, Enfield, London, by garage owner Jimmy Metcalfe on 30th September 1980 to Geoffery Robinson, Enfield.

Club Membership No: 2017092


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 Post subject: Re: Oxy/Acet Set
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:39 am 
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Location: Hampshire
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I wouldn't bother with anything other than oxy/acet, I've used them all in my job over the years and have no patience for anything other than what acetylene offers, instant heat and perfect cutting properties.
What are you using Oxy/Acet for Murdo?

I learned how to gas weld using oxy back in the late '90s at college, I have never used it since. For automotive applications MIG and TIG Welding offer greater flexibility and scope, you can do more with them. After restoring countless cars, I would never go near one with a cutting torch, it's old tech, like using a sledge hammer to hammer in a small nail. Modern cutting discs and air saws far supersede them. I have a plasma cutter for complex shapes but I rarely use it.

As for instant heat there are modern MAP gas bottles and rothenburger heads with fine tips available readily from places like screwfix that do the job perfectly well and just as quick. I got Shauns exhaust off of 138 with the mapp torch, in 30 secs it heated up the exhaust joint until it was red hot, I have also used it to remove stubborn rusted on bolts with the fine tip.

But again, you haven't said what you are using the acet for. I use Hobbyweld for Argoshield and pure Argon for MIG and TIG, the standard bottles should fit the BOC regulators as they are a standard regulator. The Ultra bottles have the regulators built in and use a special connection, this is what I use. Unless you are a full on business then BOC are not cost effective, I have found they are also not interested in dealing with the general public as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Oxy/Acet Set
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:25 pm 
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I wouldn't bother with anything other than oxy/acet, I've used them all in my job over the years and have no patience for anything other than what acetylene offers, instant heat and perfect cutting properties.
What are you using Oxy/Acet for Murdo?

I learned how to gas weld using oxy back in the late '90s at college, I have never used it since. For automotive applications MIG and TIG Welding offer greater flexibility and scope, you can do more with them. After restoring countless cars, I would never go near one with a cutting torch, it's old tech, like using a sledge hammer to hammer in a small nail. Modern cutting discs and air saws far supersede them. I have a plasma cutter for complex shapes but I rarely use it.

As for instant heat there are modern MAP gas bottles and rothenburger heads with fine tips available readily from places like screwfix that do the job perfectly well and just as quick. I got Shauns exhaust off of 138 with the mapp torch, in 30 secs it heated up the exhaust joint until it was red hot, I have also used it to remove stubborn rusted on bolts with the fine tip.

But again, you haven't said what you are using the acet for. I use Hobbyweld for Argoshield and pure Argon for MIG and TIG, the standard bottles should fit the BOC regulators as they are a standard regulator. The Ultra bottles have the regulators built in and use a special connection, this is what I use. Unless you are a full on business then BOC are not cost effective, I have found they are also not interested in dealing with the general public as well.
I'm a welder to trade James, so do all sorts of wee jobs for myself & friends, learned my trade in the oil industry and spent 20 years there before deciding I'd swallowed enough fumes, so changed jobs - I too have used TIG, MIG, Inner Shield, Dual Shield, Sub Arc, Oxy/Acet and Brazing, each with their own unique qualities/properties/uses.

Admittedly the oxy/acet would 'now' be primarily for heating things up, mostly on cars but the odd job for shaping things like rod bars of differing thicknesses, for gates etc, and very 'occasionally' for cutting through steel sometimes up to an inch thick, depending on what we're doing. But the amount I do now (the older I get) it doesn't justify having BOC bottles any longer, so they're off. So I'm looking for the best substitute that meets those needs, so I can still do the 'odd' bit and 'keep my hand in'.

I could get the cutting done by someone else but it defeats the purpose then of helping friends out, and it costs, plus I enjoy the pottering. I do so little though, I even sold my MIG welder 3 months ago, circumstances change so needs change - I held onto my stik welder as it's cost free, and they're not worth much anyway.

I'm glad the regs fit the Hobby Weld bottles, as there's a local supplier not 5 mins from me, so that saves on buying equipment (so that's really useful to know, thanks), the initial deposit is high though at £185 for both bottles, but refills are reasonable.

I'm interested in the mag torch you mention, I've never used one or heard of it, is it what heating engineers/plumbers use - I've lived a sheltered life in the Outer Hebrides :woohoo:

_________________
Triumph Dolomite Sprint,RNK 957W

Built 26/6/1980 (one of the last built), Auto, Porcelain White - Genuine Mileage 52,820 (warranted).

Only 3 previous owners, (2 within the same family).

Supplied by Lavender Hill Garage Ltd, Enfield, London, by garage owner Jimmy Metcalfe on 30th September 1980 to Geoffery Robinson, Enfield.

Club Membership No: 2017092


Last edited by RSi on Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Oxy/Acet Set
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:42 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:12 pm
Posts: 7047
Location: Highley, Shropshire
Like James, I learned to gas weld in college, but didn't find it practical to have my own set in the early days and used to rent a set from the local hire shop if I needed to. This was several years before the advent of MiG welders.

This all stopped in England when the new rules about safe storage, transport, etc were introduced. I can't remember exactly when this was, but it was before 1977 as I was still living at home when the hire shop availability ended and I got married and moved out in 77. And I had to learn to use an arc welder!

There is a sort of loophole about having the gases, if you HAD an account with BOC before the legislation was introduced, they'd keep on selling it to you. Many garages kept their BOC accounts long after they were outpriced and outdated, purely on this basis, as it avoided the regulation conformity. Of course, nowadays, garages get regular visits from H+S inspectors, so can't get away with it any longer, but a private citizen like Murdo might because there's no-one with any reason to check up on him!

It may be that Scotland is not as rule bound as England is, my money says it's far more likely that Murdo has unwittingly been storing and using acetylene "illegally" for more years than I care to think about, just because nobody knew!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: Oxy/Acet Set
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:07 pm 
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Quote:
It may be that Scotland is not as rule bound as England is, my money says it's far more likely that Murdo has unwittingly been storing and using acetylene "illegally" for more years than I care to think about, just because nobody knew!

Steve
There's no legal obligation to notify your local authority or pay them a licence fee etc, for storing gas bottles at domestic premises, when bought through a licenced retailer, and all their fees are paid.

When I hopefully go for my new set next week, my only responsibility is to complete the paperwork from the outlet supplying them to me, they then hold all the information on who/where the gas bottles have been supplied (apart from domestic gas; propane etc, there's no paperwork for that).

_________________
Triumph Dolomite Sprint,RNK 957W

Built 26/6/1980 (one of the last built), Auto, Porcelain White - Genuine Mileage 52,820 (warranted).

Only 3 previous owners, (2 within the same family).

Supplied by Lavender Hill Garage Ltd, Enfield, London, by garage owner Jimmy Metcalfe on 30th September 1980 to Geoffery Robinson, Enfield.

Club Membership No: 2017092


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 Post subject: Re: Oxy/Acet Set
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:14 pm 
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t may be that Scotland is not as rule bound as England is, my money says it's far more likely that Murdo has unwittingly been storing and using acetylene "illegally" for more years than I care to think about, just because nobody knew!

Steve
I forgot to mention Steve, I ran the administration of a local garage (in my spare time) for just over ten years, we didn't even have to pay the local authority any individual/separate fee for holding gas bottles (acet etc) for that commercial business either.

_________________
Triumph Dolomite Sprint,RNK 957W

Built 26/6/1980 (one of the last built), Auto, Porcelain White - Genuine Mileage 52,820 (warranted).

Only 3 previous owners, (2 within the same family).

Supplied by Lavender Hill Garage Ltd, Enfield, London, by garage owner Jimmy Metcalfe on 30th September 1980 to Geoffery Robinson, Enfield.

Club Membership No: 2017092


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 Post subject: Re: Oxy/Acet Set
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:33 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:27 pm
Posts: 1911
Location: Hampshire
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I wouldn't bother with anything other than oxy/acet, I've used them all in my job over the years and have no patience for anything other than what acetylene offers, instant heat and perfect cutting properties.
What are you using Oxy/Acet for Murdo?

I learned how to gas weld using oxy back in the late '90s at college, I have never used it since. For automotive applications MIG and TIG Welding offer greater flexibility and scope, you can do more with them. After restoring countless cars, I would never go near one with a cutting torch, it's old tech, like using a sledge hammer to hammer in a small nail. Modern cutting discs and air saws far supersede them. I have a plasma cutter for complex shapes but I rarely use it.

As for instant heat there are modern MAP gas bottles and rothenburger heads with fine tips available readily from places like screwfix that do the job perfectly well and just as quick. I got Shauns exhaust off of 138 with the mapp torch, in 30 secs it heated up the exhaust joint until it was red hot, I have also used it to remove stubborn rusted on bolts with the fine tip.

But again, you haven't said what you are using the acet for. I use Hobbyweld for Argoshield and pure Argon for MIG and TIG, the standard bottles should fit the BOC regulators as they are a standard regulator. The Ultra bottles have the regulators built in and use a special connection, this is what I use. Unless you are a full on business then BOC are not cost effective, I have found they are also not interested in dealing with the general public as well.
I'm a welder to trade James, so do all sorts of wee jobs for myself & friends, learned my trade in the oil industry and spent 20 years there before deciding I'd swallowed enough fumes, so changed jobs - I too have used TIG, MIG, Inner Shield, Dual Shield, Sub Arc, Oxy/Acet and Brazing, each with their own unique qualities/properties/uses.

Admittedly the oxy/acet would 'now' be primarily for heating things up, mostly on cars but the odd job for shaping things like rod bars of differing thicknesses, for gates etc, and very 'occasionally' for cutting through steel sometimes up to an inch thick, depending on what we're doing. But the amount I do now (the older I get) it doesn't justify having BOC bottles any longer, so they're off. So I'm looking for the best substitute that meets those needs, so I can still do the 'odd' bit and 'keep my hand in'.

I could get the cutting done by someone else but it defeats the purpose then of helping friends out, and it costs, plus I enjoy the pottering. I do so little though, I even sold my MIG welder 3 months ago, circumstances change so needs change - I held onto my stik welder as it's cost free, and they're not worth much anyway.

I'm glad the regs fit the Hobby Weld bottles, as there's a local supplier not 5 mins from me, so that saves on buying equipment (so that's really useful to know, thanks), the initial deposit is high though at £185 for both bottles, but refills are reasonable.

I'm interested in the mag torch you mention, I've never used one or heard of it, is it what heating engineers/plumbers use - I've lived a sheltered life in the Outer Hebrides :woohoo:
Gotcha, so with anything automotive I don't think an acet torch is necessary anymore but yes, if you're cutting inch thick steel and heating rods for gates I can see where they excel! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Oxy/Acet Set
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:25 am 
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TDC Shropshire Area Organiser

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:12 pm
Posts: 7047
Location: Highley, Shropshire
Quote:
Quote:
It may be that Scotland is not as rule bound as England is, my money says it's far more likely that Murdo has unwittingly been storing and using acetylene "illegally" for more years than I care to think about, just because nobody knew!

Steve
There's no legal obligation to notify your local authority or pay them a licence fee etc, for storing gas bottles at domestic premises, when bought through a licenced retailer, and all their fees are paid.

When I hopefully go for my new set next week, my only responsibility is to complete the paperwork from the outlet supplying them to me, they then hold all the information on who/where the gas bottles have been supplied (apart from domestic gas; propane etc, there's no paperwork for that).
Well at least it's not costing you anything! In England you need a council licence to TRANSPORT scrap (which must be paid for) and if you transport it across council boundaries you need a licence from EACH council whose territory you pass over! They have extortion down to a fine art here! I must try to get oxy/acet from MY local Hobbyweld supplier and see what hoops I have to jump through!

But seeing as I paid only £30 deposit on my Argoshield bottle and you are paying 3 times that (seeing as there are 2 bottles) I think you might be paying a hidden fee for the documentation. I'll give odds that part of holding your info involves dispensing it to the local Fire Brigade at least, if not more. Firefighters are very funny about walking blind into potentially explosive situations! Or the handful I know are!

Way back when I was first married and living in Slough, a neighbour borrowed an oxy/acet welding set to weld up his Herald at home and set fire to it. When the brigade turned out, he informed them what was in the garage. They immediately backed off, evacuated all the houses for a couple of hundred yards around (including mine, 8 doors away) and closed the London to Bristol down fast railway line that ran across the bottom of all our gardens. Then they sat back and waited for the bottles to explode! The explosion took out the garage, utterly destroyed the car and left 5 houses either side with no glass in the rear windows and some other minor damage. My next door neighbour, who had been in the same house during WWII said the bang was louder than than the train mounted AA gun that used to park outside his back yard during the Blitz! Mind you, those WERE the full sized bottles, about 6ft Oxygen bottle and a slightly shorter, fatter Acetylene. I suspect your new ones will not be so massive!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Aha...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:04 pm 
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Quote:
I'm glad the regs fit the Hobby Weld bottles, as there's a local supplier not 5 mins from me, so that saves on buying equipment (so that's really useful to know, thanks), the initial deposit is high though at £185 for both bottles, but refills are reasonable.
There is a saying is there not about when something seems too good to be true....?

My neighbour changed from BOC to the non rental type for his Mig welder but wonders if he has done the right thing
because they little cylinders don't contain much gas.....




Ian.

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