Front wheel drive BMW....?

[sprint95m]

Despite having no interest in "modern" cars myself other than as a source of parts or ideas for improving and/or keeping Triumphs on the road,
I am nonetheless interested in what folk think of the new BMW front wheel drive range.
A good idea?
Should they have followed the Mini example and used a different name (Riley or Wolseley perhaps...?)
Who are the target market?


Does it spell an end for the 1-series?
(I suspect the only choice to replace a Dolomite is the 1-series as there are no other small back wheel drive medium saloons available?)



Thanks,

Ian.

[SprintMWU773V]

I think calling the Active Tourer the 2 series they have totally shafted the 2 series RWD coupe which has just come out. Inevitably the 1 series will go FWD, it has to for cost reasons but it will also be available with 4WD. Merc and Audi are all FWD and they seem to be doing OK. Most BMW drivers neither understand nor notice whether the car is FWD or RWD. It won't damage the brand except in the eyes of purists who likely won't buy BMW's anyway.

As a 1 series owner I like it being RWD but actually it robs huge amounts of rear room so for a small family car it is a stupid idea to be RWD. It doesn't bother me though as I don't carry rear passengers very often!

BMW make FWD already with the MINI, this car drives very well so I wouldn't worry too much.

[tinweevil]

purists who likely won't buy BMW's anyway.

ITYM RWD purists who won't touch a wrong wheel drive whoever the badge. BMW have themselves long made a big deal of only sending the drive where it ought to go so this I think is a shot in their own foot.

BMW make FWD already with the MINI, this car drives very well

Yet sucks donkey balls in every other respect. Actually, I can't agree on 'drives very well' either.

[Carledo]

purists who likely won't buy BMW's anyway.

ITYM RWD purists who won't touch a wrong wheel drive whoever the badge. BMW have themselves long made a big deal of only sending the drive where it ought to go so this I think is a shot in their own foot.

BMW make FWD already with the MINI, this car drives very well

Yet sucks donkey balls in every other respect. Actually, I can't agree on 'drives very well' either.

I'm with Tin on this and though I prefer RWD, I also have FWD vehicles (it's difficult not to, when 95% of the worlds production uses the wretched FWD system, for good and valid reasons maybe, but handling isn't one of them!) I've driven more than a few BMW Minis and I was emphatically unimpressed by all of them!

Steve

[mbellinger]

The most valuable market segment in the world is the Golf/Focus/Astra segment.

To date BMW's only presence in this lucrative segment has been 1 Series (insufficient accommodation to be a main family car choice); and Mini (ditto, plus it is designed to appeal to a more youthful market).

Added to this, it has produced in the new third gen Mini, what is purported to be one of the best driving FWD platforms ever made. To me it was therefore inevitable that this excellent new platform (which also has a very effective and compact 4WD option remember) would appear under a more mainstream car wearing the blue and white propellor to compete properly against the Golf, etc.

The brand has such high perceived value that I don't think they can go wrong to be honest. If you are looking for a Golf segment car you are, by implication, accepting that it will be FWD. If you can buy a car for the same sort of money that drives better, has similar cabin and boot space, feels better put together (as it will) and is a BMW it will (to say the least) merit serious consideration on your short list.

I think it is a master stroke. I also think the same of moving the 1/2Series RWD platform sideways to create more niche coupe type product, with more powerful engines.

Clever folk.

[grifterkid]

As a 1 series owner I like it being RWD but actually it robs huge amounts of rear room so for a small family car it is a stupid idea to be RWD...

Having a 1-Series in my stable I do agree with this, the ruddy thing is very cramped in the back!!!

I prefer driving a RWD motor but, as already mentioned you can get a wonderful drive from a FWD car these days. I've driven a few 'new generation' Mini's and they're pretty darn good in terms of 'real world' motoring!

As for whether people will really care what wheels are driven I really do not think it will make a huge difference. BMW is a brand above all and if people like that brand they'll still stick with it whatever happens (I think people are more proud of saying what they drive rather than how it drives in some cases!)...

[Jon Tilson]

The fwd v rwd handling argument is and always has been spurious.

The BMC mini, ADO16 and Land Crab were fwd and comprehensively wiped the floor with the rwd stable mates and competitors alike.
Of the period only the Z magnette and Escort could hold a candle to them. Handling is therefiore more about rack and pinion steering - all these had it.

Where the BMC's fell down is on stodgy gearchanges. Easilly fixed come Golf and mk1 fiesta and a non issue ever since. Dont put gears in the sump is the clear message.

On recent form we could cite the Xantia Laguna Mondeo Focus, 306/405/406 and Golf 5 and moving up even the Volvo 850 and XM and C6 as an excellent bunch of fine handling fwd's. The driven end clearly makes no difference in the hands of a competent chassis engineer.

The Beemers USP has never really been rwd handling. Since the E34 they have learned that a good chassis is important, but the creamy straight six, reasonable dohc four pots and the excellent post nikasil V8's and taking diesels into the realms of the impossible economy and performance wise are what makes them great. Its been well combined with an excellent UK marketing arm which sadly attracts too much classless chest medallion new money and arsehole agressive types into the driving seat. This in about equal measure with the way they trashed Rover and wont let Triumph ever live again means I cant ever see them as anything but the enemy, even though I do respect the product as a piece of automotive engineering. Going forward as memory fades and the distasteful clientelle move increasingly to the four rings in an attempt to be "me too" different I may change my views on ever owning one.

The range is big enough but I cant see an fwd as anything game changing. The 1 series is a fashion accessory and wont ever replace a Golf as a family car. The new Merc A class is a total plot loss when it replaced something unique with an inferior golf and focus alike with nothing special other than its price. They should stick to C classes and be grateful that Jag havent yet replaced the X type. BM are in danger of doing the same therefore, but I suspect they wont. The 530 GT and X6 are clangers enough....Have you ever seen a 5 series GT? The ultimate pointless driving machine...

I feel sorry for Alfa and Lancia who have shown that despite some decent recent efforts and a once proud badge its almost impossible to displace the 3 series and A4 or get a small slice of Golf pie. I suspect the guilletta would be all but killed by an fwd BM.

I hope VAG keep giving us some choice in the excellent Leon and Octavia.....but BM have really thrown down the gauntlet diesel engine wise and I would be far more worried about that in Woflsburg and Ingolstadt than I would be about which end the drive goes to....and I dont think small capacity turbo 3 and 4 pots are the answer....

Jonners

[sprint95m]

Thanks for the replies.
I had always thought that BMW made much of being back wheel drive (or rear wheel drive as they say in the motor trade ) ,
"the ultimate driving machine".

Martin's analysis makes a lot of sense to me.
I think that BMW attract a lot of brand loyalty? Having asked a few owners, their only real complaint is the cost of parts (but I don't think
other makes are really any better in this respect?).



thanks again

Ian.

[thekettleson]

BMW moved away from the "ultimate driving machine" tagline a few years ago - they now give you "efficient dynamics" instead apparently...

J