LED Stop/tail lights

[cliftyhanger]

The LED's arrived a few days ago, but I have only installed them just now.
The tail/brake lamps aren't all that much brighter and are quite a bit "redder". They look great and I know they'll be safer than the originals.
BUT....the front white parkers are bucket-loads better..... whiter & brighter.
Front and back, I replaced one and compared the two together. I'm sorry now that I didn't take photos.
I think its money well spent.
Cheers,
Rob

Did you use the "extra bright" tail/brake bulbs, or the more std type?

[mahony]

The LED's arrived a few days ago, but I have only installed them just now.
The tail/brake lamps aren't all that much brighter and are quite a bit "redder". They look great and I know they'll be safer than the originals.
BUT....the front white parkers are bucket-loads better..... whiter & brighter.
Front and back, I replaced one and compared the two together. I'm sorry now that I didn't take photos.
I think its money well spent.
Cheers,
Rob

These are the one's i ordered https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collec ... 380-p21-5w

[cliftyhanger]

The LED's arrived a few days ago, but I have only installed them just now.
The tail/brake lamps aren't all that much brighter and are quite a bit "redder". They look great and I know they'll be safer than the originals.
BUT....the front white parkers are bucket-loads better..... whiter & brighter.
Front and back, I replaced one and compared the two together. I'm sorry now that I didn't take photos.
I think its money well spent.
Cheers,
Rob

These are the one's i ordered https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collec ... 380-p21-5w

Are they much brighter than the normal filament bulbs?

[Sundowner]

The LED's arrived a few days ago, but I have only installed them just now.
The tail/brake lamps aren't all that much brighter and are quite a bit "redder". They look great and I know they'll be safer than the originals.
BUT....the front white parkers are bucket-loads better..... whiter & brighter.
Front and back, I replaced one and compared the two together. I'm sorry now that I didn't take photos.
I think its money well spent.
Cheers,
Rob

Did you use the "extra bright" tail/brake bulbs, or the more std type?

Hi,
I bought the ones closest to the original wattage. I considered buying the brighter ones, but due to their extra length, decided not to, just in case they wouldn't fit.
Rob

[mahony]

The LED's arrived a few days ago, but I have only installed them just now.
The tail/brake lamps aren't all that much brighter and are quite a bit "redder". They look great and I know they'll be safer than the originals.
BUT....the front white parkers are bucket-loads better..... whiter & brighter.
Front and back, I replaced one and compared the two together. I'm sorry now that I didn't take photos.
I think its money well spent.
Cheers,
Rob

These are the one's i ordered https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collec ... 380-p21-5w

Are they much brighter than the normal filament bulbs?

Yep they are brighter, had no problems with the length of the bulbs

[cliftyhanger]

These are the one's i ordered https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collec ... 380-p21-5w

Are they much brighter than the normal filament bulbs?

Yep they are brighter, had no problems with the length of the bulbs

Excellent, will order a pair..

[mahony]

Are they much brighter than the normal filament bulbs?

Yep they are brighter, had no problems with the length of the bulbs

Excellent, will order a pair..

Have also just got the front sidelight LED bulbs, going to fit them tomorrow ( the other half can buy the four indicator ones for my birthday )

[cliftyhanger]

OK, I can't order them as they are out of stock

[triumphtoledo]

Something that has not been mentioned here but is very relevant is that LED bulbs are not road legal. These are the retrofit types. Fitting them makes your vehicle unroadworthy (regardless of what the MOT spots, as this is mainly a Construction and Use issue), for which you, as the driver, are responsible.

I did a huge amount of research on this for various car mags around 18 months or so ago, including classic ones. New cars have LED lamps but these do not use 'dodgy' replacement bulbs; the lamps are sealed with reflectors designed for LEDs.

While Dolomites do not have to comply with new Whole Vehicle Type Approval, there are a few select new parts that you fit that must comply. An exterior replacement bulb is one of these few parts. Due to their safety critical nature, a badly-made part is a safety hazard, mainly due to causing dazzle. It is a legal requirement that they are e-marked. LED retrofit bulbs are not e-marked, because they cannot comply with the required legislation. The halogen reflectors in a Dolomite lamp housing also cannot direct the new light source correctly, even though the layman thinks the 'brighter is better'.

Fitting these bulbs to a car is an offence. Using these bulbs on the road is also an offence. Selling these non-compliant bulbs is also breaking the law. The classic car suppliers that I contacted could not provide any counteraction to my findings, other than point to legislation that has now been superseded and even if the older legislation were still relevant, LED bulbs do not comply with the required wattage consumption.

You can use LED conversion bulbs but within the interior, only.

Hoping this is useful - If I get some time, I'll see if I can write it up for Dolly Mixture.

R

[bazyerma]

Something that has not been mentioned here but is very relevant is that LED bulbs are not road legal. These are the retrofit types. Fitting them makes your vehicle unroadworthy (regardless of what the MOT spots, as this is mainly a Construction and Use issue), for which you, as the driver, are responsible.

I did a huge amount of research on this for various car mags around 18 months or so ago, including classic ones. New cars have LED lamps but these do not use 'dodgy' replacement bulbs; the lamps are sealed with reflectors designed for LEDs.

While Dolomites do not have to comply with new Whole Vehicle Type Approval, there are a few select new parts that you fit that must comply. An exterior replacement bulb is one of these few parts. Due to their safety critical nature, a badly-made part is a safety hazard, mainly due to causing dazzle. It is a legal requirement that they are e-marked. LED retrofit bulbs are not e-marked, because they cannot comply with the required legislation. The halogen reflectors in a Dolomite lamp housing also cannot direct the new light source correctly, even though the layman thinks the 'brighter is better'.

Fitting these bulbs to a car is an offence. Using these bulbs on the road is also an offence. Selling these non-compliant bulbs is also breaking the law. The classic car suppliers that I contacted could not provide any counteraction to my findings, other than point to legislation that has now been superseded and even if the older legislation were still relevant, LED bulbs do not comply with the required wattage consumption.

You can use LED conversion bulbs but within the interior, only.

Hoping this is useful - If I get some time, I'll see if I can write it up for Dolly Mixture.

R

Hi

What would be the penalty for fitting these lights and getting charged for it be, and secondly, do you know of any cases of this happening in reality?

Just trying to assess the risk get caught against the improvement to the lighting.

Regards

Barry

[Toledo Man]

Rob makes some good points about the legality (or lack) of LED bulbs. The main problem is the light pattern which is different to a filament bulb which can be a potential hazard which is why they don't comply. The only legal way of retrofitting LED lights is to change the entire light cluster/light unit for an LED one which will be designed to produce the correct light pattern. Unfortunately, most of "our" cars are affected by the legislation and modern cars certainly can't be fitted with LED bulbs.

In reality, it is unlikely that your average "rank-and-file" police officer is not aware of the legislation relating to lighting (I suspect that the traffic cops will be a bit more savvy) and the MoT doesn't pick up on this (as long as it works and it isn't too dim it will pass). Is it really worth the risk? Also there are a lot of poor quality LED bulbs on eBay. I bought a set of 501s from a UK supplier (Aceparts) from my Mk4 Astra and they only lasted 8 months. I had a similar experience with the sidelights on the C4 Grand Picasso and ended up going back to filament bulbs. It just isn't worth it.

[bazyerma]

Rob makes some good points about the legality (or lack) of LED bulbs. The main problem is the light pattern which is different to a filament bulb which can be a potential hazard which is why they don't comply. The only legal way of retrofitting LED lights is to change the entire light cluster/light unit for an LED one which will be designed to produce the correct light pattern. Unfortunately, most of "our" cars are affected by the legislation and modern cars certainly can't be fitted with LED bulbs.

In reality, it is unlikely that your average "rank-and-file" police officer is not aware of the legislation relating to lighting (I suspect that the traffic cops will be a bit more savvy) and the MoT doesn't pick up on this (as long as it works and it isn't too dim it will pass). Is it really worth the risk? Also there are a lot of poor quality LED bulbs on eBay. I bought a set of 501s from a UK supplier (Aceparts) from my Mk4 Astra and they only lasted 8 months. I had a similar experience with the sidelights on the C4 Grand Picasso and ended up going back to filament bulbs. It just isn't worth it.

Hi

Thats unlucky about you LED lights. I changed all my rear lights on my Vauahall adam 5 years ago and had no issue, although I only do about 3000 miles a year.

I will take the chance and fit the LED lights to my 1500 TC, because as you said, its very unlikely the police will ever stop me and remove my bulbs to check if the are E-marked!
Also they do get good review and look a lot better. The law cant stand in the way of progress, and my Triumph wont be seeing an MOT man in my ownership!

Regards

Barry

[triumphtoledo]

Hi

What would be the penalty for fitting these lights and getting charged for it be,

Driving an unroadworthy vehicle - that is the offence for which the driver can be prosecuted. I can go through the exact laws fitting and using them breaks if you are really that interested.




and secondly, do you know of any cases of this happening in reality?

Yes. I know of an actual case, where insurance was withdrawn after an accident had occurred. I don't know if, in that case, the driver was prosecuted. I do know of RTOs stopping vehicles with them fitted.



Just trying to assess the risk get caught against the improvement to the lighting.
It depends what you mean by an 'improvement'. Brighter is not better in terms of lighting (and indeed our eyes' reactions) and I looked into LED retrofits with help from the Royal College of Ophthalmologists.

So the comment about fitting LEDs to a Dolomite as being 'progress' is on very dicey ground - all I can say is that it is not legal to fit and use them on the road, because it makes your vehicle technically unroadworthy.


I may put a piece in Dolly Mixture, if I get the time.

R

[cleverusername]

I am in two minds about this. With headlights bulbs you should never change the bulb type without changing the fitting. Safety isn't just about how far the driver can see, it is about dazzling other drivers. This is more of an issue on roads nowadays, the number of times I have been blinded by on coming headlights is ridiculous and I suspect many of these were down to illegal conversions.

Now I don't know if it is such an issue with rear lights, will they really get bright enough to dazzle? However I don't see the need for brighter lights either, are the rear lights on a Dolly that dim they are a safety hazard?

[cliftyhanger]

I have just fitted a pair of LED stop/tail lights in my spitfire.
They are brighter than the old bulbs (actually fairly new bosch ones) and give a lovely even red light. Not excessive, but on our old cars every little helps when it comes to being noticed (somebody drove in the back of us in the spitfire on the way home from the silverstone classic 2018. We were in a stationary queue of traffic, but she "forgot" we were there! Not related to bulbs, but car size is small so good bright lights can only help)

More than happy with them, and can only see an insurance company refusing a payout if the bulbs somehow contributed to the accident. Difficult to prove that one. And certainly in the handful of accidents I have had, no assessor has looked at anything except tyres and the damage. Badly fitted headlights could be an issue if they blinded oncoming vehicles. Then again the latest cars are terrible for that.

The bulbs came from classiccarleds. Lovely chap, great service and from others experiences, decent quality bulbs.