The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

The Number One Club for owners of Triumph's range of small saloons from the 1960s and 1970s.
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 Post subject: Re: Sprint engine?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:02 am 
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TDC Shropshire Area Organiser

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:12 pm
Posts: 7036
Location: Highley, Shropshire
Quote:
Quote:
The Vauxhall 8v 2 litre is as powerful as a Sprint, cheap as chips and indestructible (even by me!) Although belt driven, it's a NO-contact engine. It's an easy conversion and the injection wiring is only 5 wires to running! The Omega box that matches it has hydraulic clutch and the box is short and light with a readily shorten-able shift extension.

If you want to spend money later, a guy I know of in Stafford can get 240+ bhp from one of these, but I find circa 140 is "sufficent" for a road car.

Why wouldn't you?

Steve
The advantage of using an engine that was originally fitted to the Dolomite range, is you reduce your chances of officialdom sniffing around. Personally I think the rules are stupid. I can understand them wanting to stop people rebuilding a whole car from just a vin plate but I see no problem with putting different engines in.

Also I like the idea of using a retro engine and coming from a generation bought up with computers, I am fascinated by the way old tech like the a Dolly actually manages to work. The SU carb, for example, is ingenious.

As for the piles of scrap listed on ebay, my advice is stay clear. At the very least check it turns over by hand before even considering it.

The engine in mine was such a cheap purchase and it turned out to be not so cheap. OK I got it going in the end but I had to throw a ton of parts and time at it to make it work.

In hindsight I would have been better off spending more and getting a good one in the first place.
Should have said, no danger from the 8 point rule with the Vaux 8v 2.0, it goes in the stock unaltered shell fine. As for retro, it was introduced in 1600 form in 1981, just months after Sprint production ended and had grown to it's full 2.0 fuel injected glory by 1988. I'd say that's pretty retro, but the tech is a whole generation better. Yet it's such a reliable and versatile design that versions of it are still in production now. And the block formed the basis for the legendary "Redtop" and C20LET turbo engines.

The SU carb is very clever, but it's not as reliable or fuel efficient as a Bosch Motronic!

As Alun has said, buying ANY used Sprint engine is a gamble, even a cheap one can be a waste of money with NO re-usable parts to salvage. And the cost of rebuilding one is soaring, then there are the difficulties in getting quality bearings, chain tensioners, pistons, oil pumps and so on. Even decent gaskets can be a hunt and if you intend to use it in anger, this will be an ongoing problem that will only get worse.

I can understand going to the time, trouble and expense of doing this for a tidy, solid, genuine Sprint in its original shell. Not so much on a mongrel Toledo (like mine, no offence intended Clive!)

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: Sprint engine?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:43 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:48 pm
Posts: 8456
Location: Winscombe, North Somerset, England
When I take on an engine rebuild I strip it, measure it and report my findings to the client at no charge. The client can then decide if they want to proceed or not based on my assessment. The engine will need to be shipped to me ie. not in the car.

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Sprintless for the first time in 35+ years. :boggle2: ... Still Sprintless.

Engines, Gearboxes, Overdrives etc. rebuilt. PM me.


1997 TVR Chimaera 450


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 Post subject: Re: Sprint engine?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:17 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:26 am
Posts: 2483
I have built several engines over the years, so that doesn't scare me in the slightest, and all have been "refresh" rather than needing any real machining. Just a hone, new rings and bearings etc. In fact one of the best I did was in a 1300 herald, built from 2 engines (crank and head provided by one, block the other, pistons and rods from both to get a matched set within 1g.)

Anyway, expecting around 1K for a sound engine ready to be used, plus ancillaries. So Mr Weevil, ballpark about right.

Meanwhile, life is overtaking me. Organising the funeral of one parent, the other just taken into hospital after a fall. So nothing will happen fast.

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Clive Senior
Brighton


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 Post subject: Re: Sprint engine?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:14 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:26 am
Posts: 2483
An update.
Today I went and collected a sprint engine and gearbox. The engine is free, and full of oil. But has been standing for many years I reckon. As usual, it was good when removed from a car (aren't they all!) so the head and sump will be coming off as a minimum.

It came with a dizzy but no cap/leads. And a pair of carbs off a 2000, but I do have some short dashpot carb parts, so a bit of mix and matching is required.

(I also dropped in to see the facebook blue dolly with the Saab engine, but it isn't for me)

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Clive Senior
Brighton


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 Post subject: Re: Sprint engine?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:00 pm 
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TDC Shropshire Area Organiser

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:12 pm
Posts: 7036
Location: Highley, Shropshire
Quote:

(I also dropped in to see the facebook blue dolly with the Saab engine, but it isn't for me)
I've been looking at that in equal parts fascination and horror, love the engine, like most of the work done, but why on earth chop that huge lump of bulkhead out? Doesn't look necessary and puts it straight into BIVA territory, unless only used for track work, which from the spec might be a possibility, but limits it's appeal.

What's it like in the tin?

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: Sprint engine?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:19 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:26 am
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Quote:
Quote:

(I also dropped in to see the facebook blue dolly with the Saab engine, but it isn't for me)
I've been looking at that in equal parts fascination and horror, love the engine, like most of the work done, but why on earth chop that huge lump of bulkhead out? Doesn't look necessary and puts it straight into BIVA territory, unless only used for track work, which from the spec might be a possibility, but limits it's appeal.

What's it like in the tin?

Steve
Metalwork is very good. Well, I couldn't get under it,but the shell is completely stropped with only few odds and ends attached. The owner works at a bodyshop who seem to have some VERY tasty cars in. And yes, happy to accept it was blasted, he explained the company have a company they use for their work. I couldn't find any evidence of "extensive" filler, but expect there to be a little for where repairs will have been carried out an probably some distortion/rippling fixed (totally acceptable) But it was the cut arches and the fact it was totally disassembled that did it for me. Plus the engine had the head off. Too many things to go wrong, and too much money spent on stuff that does't appeal to me (perspex "glass", ford PCD hubs /banded wheels and of course the arches etc, not to mention lack of garage space). But if put together it could be a very nice motor. If that is your sort of thing.

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Clive Senior
Brighton


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 Post subject: Re: Sprint engine?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:08 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:25 pm
Posts: 85
A Biva is almost impossible to achieve on a dolomite without an EC43R marked screen (the equivalent BS number is no longer accepted) of which so far I've been unable to find, so in my case I'm looking to reverse the body mods, fitting stock dampers, standard subframe to regain the 8 points.

Carledo, does a getrag 240 really fit the shell with no mods? as I'll seek one out for the 'next' power plant if so.


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 Post subject: Re: Sprint engine?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:15 pm 
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TDC Shropshire Area Organiser

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:12 pm
Posts: 7036
Location: Highley, Shropshire
Quote:
A Biva is almost impossible to achieve on a dolomite without an EC43R marked screen (the equivalent BS number is no longer accepted) of which so far I've been unable to find, so in my case I'm looking to reverse the body mods, fitting stock dampers, standard subframe to regain the 8 points.

Carledo, does a getrag 240 really fit the shell with no mods? as I'll seek one out for the 'next' power plant if so.
Don't know about the screen issue, i've done my damndest to avoid BIVA and so far succeeded! Shell needs to be bone stock, you can ADD mounts etc but not cut anything away. Shox, so long as they follow factory mounts (ie are purely bolt on) you can fit any make or type you like, including GAZ ASPs (or your choice of maker) I've sacrificed my subframe points (the front "axle" according to the regs) as I 'd already lost them fitting a Sprint axle to a Toledo. My 9 points come from stock shell (5) stock steering (2) and stock suspension (2) I've got different rate springs and the ASPs and some Poly, but all is direct replacement for factory stuff, so permissible.

If a Getrag 240 is the box fitted to Omegas then yes, no mods needed at all, the crossmember even falls within the range of the original body mount points. You need to mess a bit with the tunnel (depending on which tunnel you start with) but since that's a bolt in and not part of the shell, it's irrelevant to the regs!


Image

Best pic I could find of it fitted, the shift extension is an easily moddable bolt on not shown here. But you can see how short it is and how easily it fits the stock size hole. Aside from a slightly larger than desireable gap between second and 3rd gears, the ratios are well chosen and it's certainly strong!

You might notice in the pic that I have removed the rear crossbar of the subframe, that's only because I started with a Toledo frame with the long rear A extension. The Sprint/1850 frame with it's shorter, downward curved, rear frame can survive intact, I just didn't have one at the time!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: Sprint engine?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:37 pm 
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Ahh that's an R28 gearbox! If course it is! I inexplicably had in mind the 240 that the 1800 mantas had but I reckon they are about the same size all told, looking at your installation an LT77 seems vast!
I've got modest torque goals now so a light duty box like that will be fine tbf.


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 Post subject: Re: Sprint engine?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:28 pm 
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TDC Shropshire Area Organiser

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:12 pm
Posts: 7036
Location: Highley, Shropshire
Quote:
Ahh that's an R28 gearbox! If course it is! I inexplicably had in mind the 240 that the 1800 mantas had but I reckon they are about the same size all told, looking at your installation an LT77 seems vast!
I've got modest torque goals now so a light duty box like that will be fine tbf.


I THINK the only difference between the Manta box and this one is in the clutch actuation, the Manta is cable operated whereas this one is a concentric hydraulic slave, which, with the merest bit of finesse, matches perfectly with a stock Dolomite master cylinder.

Dunno about modest torque goals, this same box goes behind the 3.2 24v V6 in the bigger Omegas!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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