Parts quality and OHV engines

[barracuda816]

Good morning all,

I seem to have developed a distrusting nature, whilst recommissioning my old dolly 1500hl. I'm at the stage where I'm rebuilding the engine and am of the opinion to build it right for a bit of longevity. So after many hours of research i am no better off trying to find quality parts for the bearings and timing chain, sprockets and tensioner. I have seen the rollson tensioner debacle (for the OHC engines) and want to avoid that. I'm going with the Payen gaskets and am having it balanced and blueprinting the oil pump as well as fitting a 1300 grind cam, hardened valve seats with a 3 angle cut and a 10.1 CR measured.

So basically, I'm asking if I buy from Rimmers or Canley ect a standard simplex chain, sprocket and tensioner, will I have problems

Also recommendations on basic mods and decent bearings would be greatly appreciated. I'm not going for a grenade, just a reliable engine with a little more power than std.

Kind regards, Luke

[cleverusername]

I agree with you, I consider the quality of parts available for classics to be a disgrace.

The advantage you will have with 1300 over 1850/Sprint, is it was fitted to far more cars. Meaning there is a bigger market for spares and more choice. I haven't heard any bad reports about timing chains and tensioners. As for head gasket, no idea.

The one issue I did have with my 1500 was finding quality bearings. The only ones I could find are the King/County bearings, which don't have the best of reputations.

[yorkshire_spam]

IIRC what was "Glacier" is now Glyco, I used glyco bearings on my recent "fast road" spec. 1500 rebuild.
They came highly recommended

[tinweevil]

It has been a few years but I always found moss, canley and rimmers ohv parts absolutely fine. Bear in mind I'm a sympathetic driver, tending towards drive like a nun at times. Plus I'm handy with spanners, I could not be arsed with the hours in front of a computer and wallet wilting prices for the very very very best parts the wealthy racers would bid stupid numbers for & throw out twice a season. Instead I just changed stuff, full timing gear & bearings are quite easy to change in situ. Bearings were for me a major service interval part.
Spend the money on machining and the parts you can't readily change which is really just pistons & rings. Don't try to make parts that won't last last. Get your block decked, it will be off. Get your chambers equalised, they will be off too. Get the cam journals measured and if needed bearings fitted. Absolutely yes to the Payen gaskets, there is, or was, some utter shite out there, Winns recommended for that.

There's a 1500HL sitting outside at home rusting away to nothing But the engine is sweet as a nut still. Last ran it in June and I put 80,000 miles on that engine when she was still my daily drive.

Sad now.

[cliftyhanger]

Timing chains seem to be OK, but tensions are (or were) poor, if you have a good one in the car, keep it.

Be warned, I had a fully balanced engine, TH5 cam. vandrvell bearings and ver carefully put together. But No3 BE let go at 100mph on the Goodwood pit straight. Got us home, just.
A few more cranks, but at 30K I took the engine out again, the cam, despite being run in correctly, high ZDDP oils etc had almost lost a couple of lobes (Newman cams are good it seems).
My advice, get the best bearings you can find and use plastigauge to make sure bearing clearances are correct, use an oil cooler and high quality oil (millers CSS would be my choice, also Penrite is good). Avoid prolonged 5k+ use.
This assumes you will be heavy with the right foot. Gently used 1500s last well.

[Carledo]

When I was racing my GT6 in the TSSC challenge trophy in the 80s, all the 1500 Spitfire guys were having their cranks cross drilled for better BE lubrication. Apparently, this is the big deal, when Triumph increased the size of the crank journals in circa 1971, (and therefore the wiped area of the shell bearings) they neglected to improve the lubrication in line with this. So the crank oil pathways are the same size as those on the "small crank" 1300. Which is something of a recipe for failure, if not total disaster. Made worse the more you use the rev range. Cross drilling the crank addresses this lack. It's not a cure, only a total redesign could do that, but it does help, or so the race boys swore, back in the day!

Further, the last increase in capacity, from 1296 to 1489cc was done the "wrong" way, making what was already an old style, long stroke "undersquare" engine even more imperfect. It's a fact of life, long stroke engines are hard on cranks, short stroke engines (like the famous PCF 1500 Ford motor) are hard on pistons. Personally I find pistons easier to replace than cranks, you don't have to pull the engine out! Also the short stroke engine is much more free revving. But we work with what we have!

Steve

[barracuda816]

Thanks for the replies guys, some interesting info (and scary stories )

I have two engines here that i intend to strip and choose the best of both to make a goodun. Was thinking about decking but both of these are recessed blocks. so im guessing that means its not a good idea?

She is only for the road but i live buy some decent mountain roads, so am thinking to baffle the sump. But i cant see prolonged 5k + use being in her future.

I dont think i can run to cross planing the crank but i heard something about drilling no2 oil way out. But i must research into it.

[yorkshire_spam]

Unless you are pulling high (for a Triumph) G on a track - IMHO baffling the sump isn't needed. My 1500 powered Spitfire has taken us across the Alps more than once and the higher temperature degradation of the oil played more of a role in the oil pressure than any starvation due to breaking/accelerating or cornering (including runs over the Stelvio etc.)
Best improvement to a stock engine in that regard is an oil cooler with thermostatic take-off.

Also... don't fit a rocker oil feed. The standard oil ways are fine for "everyday" use as long as they are clean and clear.

[cleverusername]

When I was racing my GT6 in the TSSC challenge trophy in the 80s, all the 1500 Spitfire guys were having their cranks cross drilled for better BE lubrication. Apparently, this is the big deal, when Triumph increased the size of the crank journals in circa 1971, (and therefore the wiped area of the shell bearings) they neglected to improve the lubrication in line with this. So the crank oil pathways are the same size as those on the "small crank" 1300. Which is something of a recipe for failure, if not total disaster. Made worse the more you use the rev range. Cross drilling the crank addresses this lack. It's not a cure, only a total redesign could do that, but it does help, or so the race boys swore, back in the day!

Further, the last increase in capacity, from 1296 to 1489cc was done the "wrong" way, making what was already an old style, long stroke "undersquare" engine even more imperfect. It's a fact of life, long stroke engines are hard on cranks, short stroke engines (like the famous PCF 1500 Ford motor) are hard on pistons. Personally I find pistons easier to replace than cranks, you don't have to pull the engine out! Also the short stroke engine is much more free revving. But we work with what we have!

Steve

To be fair to the 1500, it is actually OK for road use, well at least for someone like me who brought up on diesels. Plenty of low down torque, even if you can't really rev it and to be honest that is what you want in a road engine, power low down.

OK ideally it would have been nice if Triumph had designed an engine that could run in 4th on a motorway all day without blowing up; so I do have to concede it is a bit flawed.

[Carledo]

When I was racing my GT6 in the TSSC challenge trophy in the 80s, all the 1500 Spitfire guys were having their cranks cross drilled for better BE lubrication. Apparently, this is the big deal, when Triumph increased the size of the crank journals in circa 1971, (and therefore the wiped area of the shell bearings) they neglected to improve the lubrication in line with this. So the crank oil pathways are the same size as those on the "small crank" 1300. Which is something of a recipe for failure, if not total disaster. Made worse the more you use the rev range. Cross drilling the crank addresses this lack. It's not a cure, only a total redesign could do that, but it does help, or so the race boys swore, back in the day!

Further, the last increase in capacity, from 1296 to 1489cc was done the "wrong" way, making what was already an old style, long stroke "undersquare" engine even more imperfect. It's a fact of life, long stroke engines are hard on cranks, short stroke engines (like the famous PCF 1500 Ford motor) are hard on pistons. Personally I find pistons easier to replace than cranks, you don't have to pull the engine out! Also the short stroke engine is much more free revving. But we work with what we have!

Steve

To be fair to the 1500, it is actually OK for road use, well at least for someone like me who brought up on diesels. Plenty of low down torque, even if you can't really rev it and to be honest that is what you want in a road engine, power low down.

OK ideally it would have been nice if Triumph had designed an engine that could run in 4th on a motorway all day without blowing up; so I do have to concede it is a bit flawed.

I'll take bottom end grunt over high rev power any day. But, as you say, it still needs to be able to survive working at motorway speeds for more than an hour or two!

The history of the British motor industry's love affair with the long stroke engine is quite interesting, but perhaps not here!

Steve

[barracuda816]

The motorway cruising without blowing up is kind of important to me, what do you think helps against this, oil cooler? As I plan to drive onto the continent when she is ready.

[yorkshire_spam]

The motorway cruising without blowing up is kind of important to me, what do you think helps against this, oil cooler? As I plan to drive onto the continent when she is ready.

Overdrive.
Oil cooler will help maintain oil pressure and quality as the 1500 works the oil hard in terms of temperature.
We did the CT 10CR in 2015 without an oil cooler - it had fresh penrite oil in when we started and it was ruined witches p155 when we got home.
We did the CT 10CR in 2017 with an oil cooler - again fresh oil before we started and the oil was still in reasonable condition once we got home.

(This is a Spitfire though)

[barracuda816]

Thanks, I would love an overdrive but can’t run to it at the moment. Hopefully can run to an oil cooler though. I’m looking for alternatives to the Rimmer’s one (thermostatic) but can’t seem to find a filter adaptor.

[yorkshire_spam]

I believe my take-off plate is Mocal part OTSP1 (sourced from https://race.parts/ in 2014, but no longer stocked by them, searching "Mocal OTSP1" online gets plenty of results though)
My cooler is Mocal P/N OC5133-8, but on a Dolomite you might be able to fit something larger?

[barracuda816]

@yorkshire_spam

That’s fantastic Info, thanks