123igintion, facts and experience.

[soe8m]

A few facts and experiences about the 123 ignition.

www.123ignition.com is the official website and these manufacture what is on their site. All others like 123ignitionshop.nl 123ignitionwhatever.com are not related to 123igintion. These alternative companies do buy a complete 123 ignition from the manufacturer and modify these themselves. These are not completely 123ignition products anymore.

I have lost count but I guess i fitted somewhere about 250 123’s in my life. In my own company I do advise these and most do choose to fit or customers do want these already as a part of the upgrade of their electrical system. The 123 is a quality product and once set properly a true fit and forget.

When I was an employee I fitted the programmable version also somtimes to hide some other trouble. Making your own sometimes funny or unlogical curves in a troubled driving area you can ‘solve’ some hesistations and my former boss was happy for that as most of the time such an 123 was the cheapest solution to have a reasonable driveable classic again to sell.

Seeing a lot of classics I also see these modified versions and most of the time I do see these because these failed. The Leen APK ones, what actually means Leen MOT station, are not the best. Mechanically these don’t rotate as smooth as the genuine 123. The most failures were with the Triumph ones that have a mechanical rev counter. The std 123 does fit a Triumph OHV engine but there’s no tacho drive so some owners did fit the modified ones. But there are owners that happily drive with one of Leen’s other products but personally I wouldn't buy one.

There is no such thing as a special 123 ignition coil. A lot of these 123 spin off shops do make you believe and want to sell you one. A few months ago i had a customer with a Porsche 911 and a 123 ignition failure. The supplied coil was from the ‘set’ Leen APK had sold him. Measuring the coil it had a resistance of 0,6 Ohm. Correct for a HKZ Porsche ignition but an 123 needs 1,0 Ohm as a minimum otherwise the current is too high running through the dizzy. Mechanics do mechanic and sellers do sell. Most sellers have no clue what they actually sell and that was the case here also at this Porsche. The best coil for the 123 is the red ballasted Bosch. It’s 1,2 Ohm and can be used without a ballast. Normally a ballasted coil can’t handle the current without their resistor but the superior red Bosch till now hasn't failed and many are used daily with this setup. My former daily Dolomite did run around 300.000km this way and on my Volvo 145 and my wifes 2500 it works fine as do the other 250 cars I have fitted this combi 123/Bosch coil. All my classics have an 123 fitted.

I made a series of adapters about 15 years ago for the Dolomite what did accept the whole 123 dizzy to be able to fit a genuine unmodified one in my cars. I don’t have any left for sale and am not planning to make some in the future. Mahesh did copy the concept but I do not know if he sells these adapters at the moment or has any left.

The 123 internals are very simple. I never needed one to take apart as you don’t take your new expensive flatscreen tv apart just to see how it looks like on the inside. But having taken many apart the last few years for various reasons it’s really nothing. It is just the round green board you see when the dizzycap is off and the alloy disc that carries the magnets. For the rest the housing is empty. To fit an 123 into another dizzy is just a case of machining an small adapter ring that fits inside the target dizzy and accepts the green board. You can leave the original dizzy shaft in place, only welding any parts that can move like mechanical advancing systems. As long the original shaft is solid now between the drive and rotorarm it’s fine. Most of the time you can modify the alloy magnet carrier ring to fit but if not it’s just machining a new one that will fit your dizzy and tap out the magnets of the 123 one and put these in your newly made disc. Thats all. So every neigbour/ nephew / uncle with a lath can help you out. The 123 has no moving parts only magnets that rotate above a green board and thats’s easy to fabricate. It’s only phychical and just take the first step. Get a screwdriver and dismantle your new expensive dizzy and see it all doesn’t take much to make all fit in whatever you like it to fit in.

In other words, don’t be affraid, don’t pay too much by importing things from the continent and ask around if someone can help to fit when you cannot do it yourself. Maybe someone in the UK can make some adapter rings to fit the green 123 board into a Lucas dizzy and have this way a conversion set to fit an 123 in a sprint dizzy yourself.
Jeroen

[Bumpa]

Very interesting Jeroen. What about the horrible Delco dissy on the 1850 Dolly? I have a 123Tune on my MGB V8 and it is truly fit and forget as you say.

[sprint95m]

Mike, you can fit a 123 distributor to an 1850 in the same way as on a Sprint



Ian

[soe8m]

Very interesting Jeroen. What about the horrible Delco dissy on the 1850 Dolly? I have a 123Tune on my MGB V8 and it is truly fit and forget as you say.

In Germany some companies do the same tricks. I do not know the quality of these but it looks like a complete 123 into a machined lower parts of a Delco dizzy. Something that can be done with little effort I guess.
They did try to match the older 123ignition.com website with their pics and layout....

https://www.123ignition.de/123-ignition ... h-tr7.aspx

Jeroen

[Bumpa]

That looks good Jeroen, but expensive. On my MGB V8 (3.9 Range Rover engine) I had no trouble programming a suitable advance curve on the 123-Tune, but I didn't know what to do with the settings for the vacuum advance. Can you help me understand what sort of curve I should be looking for? The attachment shows what it is running at the moment.

[B8WLY]

Guys.

Question ?

As Jeroen has pointed out the dizzy 123 is a quality piece of kit. Once fitted it’s a case of enjoy and forget.

The problem I see here is lots of people would like to do the conversion but no one can get hold of the bracket required to convert the 123.

Can we not get a fabrication drawing done and then get 20-30 brackets made up by the club ?? The club can then sell the brackets directly to anyone who needs one.

I would be more than happy to make a contribution to the club so we can get the option made into a reality so people can get these brackets and get these conversions done.

Richard.

[new to this]

Guys.

Question ?

As Jeroen has pointed out the dizzy 123 is a quality piece of kit. Once fitted it’s a case of enjoy and forget.

The problem I see here is lots of people would like to do the conversion but no one can get hold of the bracket required to convert the 123.

Can we not get a fabrication drawing done and then get 20-30 brackets made up by the club ?? The club can then sell the brackets directly to anyone who needs one.

I would be more than happy to make a contribution to the club so we can get the option made into a reality so people can get these brackets and get these conversions done.

Richard.

what needs to be done ? is it a retaining ring that needs making, Would it be made in ally or plastic ?

[xvivalve]

Guys.

Question ?

As Jeroen has pointed out the dizzy 123 is a quality piece of kit. Once fitted it’s a case of enjoy and forget.

The problem I see here is lots of people would like to do the conversion but no one can get hold of the bracket required to convert the 123.

Can we not get a fabrication drawing done and then get 20-30 brackets made up by the club ?? The club can then sell the brackets directly to anyone who needs one.

I would be more than happy to make a contribution to the club so we can get the option made into a reality so people can get these brackets and get these conversions done.

Richard.

what needs to be done ? is it a retaining ring that needs making, Would it be made in ally or plastic ?

Simple answer is yes, we have several fabricators who create and supply the Club already in various materials. I'll attempt to co-ordinate with Mahesh to first see if he has already done this (no point reinventing the wheel when reinventing the distributor) and secondly if he hasn't, to see if he has any accurate drawings or a sample to measure...

[B8WLY]

That would be great news.

I know Steve said Mahesh has one bracket left but was moving house so was trying to locate it. Another guy who’s name I cannot remember, apologies said he had a working fabrication drawing, and I am sure Jeroen can possibly help.

The brackets if available from the club would go a long way to helping many members do the conversion. I for one would be the first on the list.

Cheers.

[roger440]

If there is a sample of drawing of something known to work, im happy to help getting them done.

But either way, count me as second on the list.

[Mad Mart]

I'm happy to create drawings if the part is available.

[B8WLY]

Gents.

There is a member named TFN who replied to a thread of mine a few months back who said he had done the conversion and had drawings available.

I sent him an email asking if he would possibly still have them and help.

He may well reply directly to this thread.

Cheers.

[Gerard]

Great to see adapter for 123 on discussion and possible solution. I would love one as I reached out to Mahesh a while back to see if any were available. Let’s hope my standard dizzy and points hold out while this plays out. Cheers Gerard

[dursley92]

Been wanting to fit a 123 dizzy in my Sprint engines for a while but couldn't get any details on the adapter dimensions so had to fit a Pertronix after a couple of Lumenition failures.

I would still love to go 123 if we can get a source or drawings for an adapter.

[B8WLY]

Gents.

Did we get any further with the bracket for the 123 Dizzy ??

Cheers.