MoT and Tax Exemption

[geeksteve]

Hi,

Hoping someone here can clear something up. My car is engine swapped with something modern enough that it doesn't meet the MoT exemption - fine with that

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... idance.pdf

It doesn't meet any of them (90s Mazda engine, fitted a few years ago).

However..

https://www.gov.uk/historic-vehicles

no ‘substantial changes’ have been made to the vehicle in the last 30 years, for example replacing the chassis, body, axles or engine to change the way the vehicle works

Is only listed under the MoT heading... Am I still eligable for tax exemption (but not MoT exemption)? I'm going to go to the post office once I get my next MoT done and see what they say.

Ta.

Steve

[jackharper]

I'd think you'd still be tax exempt, there is no mention of any disqualification anywhere I've looked to do with historic vehicle tax - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... hicles.pdf doesn't mention the substantially changed bit anywhere.

Maybe worth contacting the DVLA for a proper answer though, unless anyone else knows?

[harvey]

Changing the engine just means you are no longer MOT exempt, but you are still in the Historic Vehicle taxation class, so pay no Road Tax.

[geeksteve]

Hurrah, been chucking that money away then I'll go to the Post Office with the relevent bits after I MoT it again (parked up currently, too damn cold to check over for test..)

Cheers all.

Steve

[Carledo]

Basically what you have been told is correct, your car, like my Toledo, is VED exempt but still needs to be MOT'd because of the engine swap.

This is because it falls under the aegis of 2 separate agencies, DVLA who have the last word on historic status and reg number retention and DVSA (formerly VOSA et al) who make the rules for MOT.

For DVLA "historic" or VHI status and free VED, a modified historic car must meet or surpass the infamous "8 point" rule requirements which you can find elsewhere on these pages if you need to, or on Gov.co.uk

DVSA's MOT rules are not as clear cut, but basically as linked above, specifically the bit about "substantially changed" which I interpret as applying to us! An engine of a different make and larger capacity being the specific points.

HTH, Steve

[TrustNo1]

'tax' exemption is based on the cars age not what that car is (except if a Q plate)

[Carledo]

'tax' exemption is based on the cars age not what that car is (except if a Q plate)

My comments were on the basis of a MODIFIED classic, if the car is stock, yes, it's purely on age.

Here's a thought, the Q plate was introduced on August 1st 1983, next year the first Q plated cars will be "historic" by definition, I wonder if they will get the free VED?

Steve

[harvey]

Here's a thought, the Q plate was introduced on August 1st 1983, next year the first Q plated cars will be "historic" by definition, I wonder if they will get the free VED?

I've been wondering that. My earliest Q plate was registered in 1986, so only five or so years to go. I have heard from quite a reliable source that if unchanged from when it was registered it will qualify for zero tax, but somehow I doubt it, and a lot can change in five years. Everything might be paying by then.....

[Graham04]

Most Q plate cars I have seen are modified kit cars. I assume they would not meet the unmodified criteria .

[Carledo]

Most Q plate cars I have seen are modified kit cars. I assume they would not meet the unmodified criteria .

A kit car, per se, is not a reason to refuse historic status, it COULD have remained intact without significant mods from it's "as built and first registered" condition. In any case, PROVING it had been significantly altered/radically modified during it's last 40 years could be a bit of a job, probably too much of one for DVLA's limited resources, on whom the burden of proof would rest.

There are also many other sorts of Q plate cars, imports, re-imports, BFPO, radical custom jobs and probably others I haven't thought of. I've had at least 3 American imports and a German Ford Fiesta that were on Q plates simply because DVLA won't accept the evidence of build date (year and month codes) built into every American VIN (and ALL Fords worldwide) since the mid 60s and no other dating evidence existed. There are other ways of dating American cars too. Before VINs were introduced in the 60s, US car makers ALWAYS changed the tail light design for every model year, even if they changed nothing else and the tail light lenses are always year marked. DVLA won't accept that either! If there isn't a clear paper trail back to first registration (highly unlikely on a 40 or 50 year old Yank where number plates are changed annually) you are gonna get a Q!

DVLA have used the Q since it's inception as a catch all to chuck anything in that they couldn't be arsed to do the due diligence on. It may finally be coming back to bite them, I hope so!

Steve

[harvey]

DVLA have used the Q since it's inception as a catch all to chuck anything in that they couldn't be arsed to do the due diligence on. It may finally be coming back to bite them, I hope so!

Steve

I registered one of my trucks in 1986 IIRC. It was built up from various parts but was a 1973 Dodge (USA) Years later it was examined by Plod, and their PC who specialised in vehicle ID told me DVLA had it registered as a 1984 French Dodge. Where that came from I'll never know, and as it just said Dodge on the V5 I might never have found out. In the end the copper sought a second opinion, and they basically told me that they had no problems with the vehicle itself, and if I wanted it changed I'd have to contact DVLA. Some chance.

[TrustNo1]

'tax' exemption is based on the cars age not what that car is (except if a Q plate)

My comments were on the basis of a MODIFIED classic, if the car is stock, yes, it's purely on age.

Here's a thought, the Q plate was introduced on August 1st 1983, next year the first Q plated cars will be "historic" by definition, I wonder if they will get the free VED?

Steve

Good question, I believe DVLA had stated that Qs won't be exempt but can't find anything official from them.

[cliftyhanger]

'tax' exemption is based on the cars age not what that car is (except if a Q plate)

My comments were on the basis of a MODIFIED classic, if the car is stock, yes, it's purely on age.

Here's a thought, the Q plate was introduced on August 1st 1983, next year the first Q plated cars will be "historic" by definition, I wonder if they will get the free VED?

Steve

Good question, I believe DVLA had stated that Qs won't be exempt but can't find anything official from them.

n addition if a vehicle (including a motorcycle):
• has been issued with a registration number with a ‘Q’ prefix; or
• is a kit car assembled from components from different makes and model of
vehicle; or
• is a reconstructed classic vehicle as defined by DVLA guidance; or
• is a kit conversion, where a kit of new parts is added to an existing vehicle, or
old parts are added to a kit of a manufactured body, chassis or monocoque
bodyshell changing the general appearance of the vehicle;
it will be considered to have been substantially changed and will not be exempt
from MOT testing.
However if any of the four above types of vehicle is taxed as an “historic vehicle” and
has not been modified during the previous 30 years, it can be considered as a VHI.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... idance.pdf

[naskeet]

As the Toledo & Dolomite are essentially part of the same model range, it could be argued that substituting the engine, gearbox & rear axle from a Dolomite Sprint into a Toledo is simply substituting an alternative engine option with related systems from a companion model in the range, which is acceptable for MOT exemption.

Two similar cases are the Ford Escort & Orion and Vauxhall Astra & Belmont, which were hatchback & booted versions of the same model range. The Toledo & Dolomite are fundamentally short-booted & long-booted versions of the same model range.

[Carledo]

As the Toledo & Dolomite are essentially part of the same model range, it could be argued that substituting the engine, gearbox & rear axle from a Dolomite Sprint into a Toledo is simply substituting an alternative engine option with related systems from a companion model in the range, which is acceptable for MOT exemption.

Two similar cases are the Ford Escort & Orion and Vauxhall Astra & Belmont, which were hatchback & booted versions of the same model range. The Toledo & Dolomite are fundamentally short-booted & long-booted versions of the same model range.

This is completely true. DVSA specifically mentions cases like this, where a car is fitted with the engine from another car in the same model range, something like putting a Golf (MkI) GTi 1.8 into an 1100cc base Golf, or a Sprint motor into a Toledo. You could even make a good case for using the GT6's 2 litre straight six in a Spitfire. DVSA are fine with this and it doesn't count as substantially altered from their point of view vis-a-vis MOT exemption.

HOWEVER if you do what I (and many others) have done and fit an engine from Vauxhall, Ford, Mazda, Nissan, Saab, Honda, Rover, etc, then that DOES count as substantially altered and the car will never be MOT exempt. Personally, I don't see any problem with this, I get ALL my classics Mot'd, whether potentially exempt or not.

Steve