The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

The Number One Club for owners of Triumph's range of small saloons from the 1960s and 1970s.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2024 2:05 am 
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RDU was on the Club stand at the NEC last year. It was confirmed it had the correct additional strengthening under the floor proving it to be a genuine works car...though a couple of pieces of glass had younger date codes.
Well I'm pleased to learn it IS still alive and wearing a correct comp dept shell!

Without knowing (and I confess total ignorance) of the car's full competition history, I can't say if that particular comp dept shell is the one it started life with. But the drivers back then were extremely competitive and crashed them frequently (Gerry Marshall seemed particularly good at this, but he's still a legend!) It wasn't unusual for the dept to reshell a car, in a couple of known cases, more than once on the same "car"! DVLA's rules didn't apply to them! And since there were no stamped in numbers in those days, why not?

Not being an expert on the race cars, I can't say for sure, but I THINK I heard somewhere, that there is only 1 surviving race car whose provenance is complete and is definitely in it's original shell. Or it could be just another urban myth!

Steve

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'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2024 10:53 am 
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That publicity pic is a big cheat! RDU 983M is indeed a well known (and I believe still surviving in some form, probably reshelled a couple of times) competition car from late 73. But the car in the foreground with only a couple of comp dept decals is a total fraud!, its just a stocker off the line and the pic was probably taken early in 76 as it's a series 3 car, you can tell by the headrests and nose badge! It's not a proper racecar as it doesn't have a rollcage in either pic, assuming as likely it's the same car in both the external shot and the internal one with a helmeted "race driver" in the seat. Race drivers wore fireproof overalls and full helmets not those archaic open face jobbies and nylon rally jackets!

I'm assuming you are quoting your VIN from memory as 12600? Elsewhere in the thread (top of page 2) you give it as 16727 which is much more likely, putting the car smack in the middle of series 2. The series 2 cars are one big change point with elements of both series 1 and series 3 cars apparent in their builds. and the exact balance of parts varies throughout the series, the later the number the more series 3 bits it has!

I also don't believe (though i've been wrong before) that 12600 is a valid number for ANY Sprint. Though the factory didn't designate the the cars as anything but "Sprint", a brief explanation of the series definitions we owners use may help you. Series 1 is VA1 to VA 14999, series 2 is VA15000 to VA 19999, series 3 is VA20000 to VA 30000 and series 4 is VA 30000> and actual VIN numbered cars.

But it's not as simple as that, though series 1 is up to VA15000, only about 11500 series 1 cars were actually built, so there are roughly 3500 unused numbers in the first series of which 12600-12699 are 100 of! The same goes for series 2 where only 3278 cars were built of a possible 5000, series 3 cars approximately 7200 of a possible 10000 and only around 1200 series 4 cars before the introduction of VIN numbers instead of the VA chassis number and another couple of thousand after.

It may also interest you to know that the first 500 series 2 cars were ALL Mimosa yellow and were ALL exported to Australia. So your series 2 car is a real rarity here.

Steve
12600 was me incorrectly remembering it ! It is 16727, so it's interesting to find out that it's a rare car in the UK.

The brochure shot shows that Sprints did come with a tan interior as late as series 3 cars. Were any series 1 cars built with this interior?

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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2024 11:04 am 
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There were several interior colours fitted to Sprints over the whole production run, though some (grey and shadow blue and to a lesser extent chestnut) were predominantly only early and beige predominantly late.

We addressed your beige interior in a Mimosa car earlier on in this discussion...


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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2024 10:47 pm 
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That publicity pic is a big cheat! RDU 983M is indeed a well known (and I believe still surviving in some form, probably reshelled a couple of times) competition car from late 73. But the car in the foreground with only a couple of comp dept decals is a total fraud!, its just a stocker off the line and the pic was probably taken early in 76 as it's a series 3 car, you can tell by the headrests and nose badge! It's not a proper racecar as it doesn't have a rollcage in either pic, assuming as likely it's the same car in both the external shot and the internal one with a helmeted "race driver" in the seat. Race drivers wore fireproof overalls and full helmets not those archaic open face jobbies and nylon rally jackets!

I'm assuming you are quoting your VIN from memory as 12600? Elsewhere in the thread (top of page 2) you give it as 16727 which is much more likely, putting the car smack in the middle of series 2. The series 2 cars are one big change point with elements of both series 1 and series 3 cars apparent in their builds. and the exact balance of parts varies throughout the series, the later the number the more series 3 bits it has!

I also don't believe (though i've been wrong before) that 12600 is a valid number for ANY Sprint. Though the factory didn't designate the the cars as anything but "Sprint", a brief explanation of the series definitions we owners use may help you. Series 1 is VA1 to VA 14999, series 2 is VA15000 to VA 19999, series 3 is VA20000 to VA 30000 and series 4 is VA 30000> and actual VIN numbered cars.

But it's not as simple as that, though series 1 is up to VA15000, only about 11500 series 1 cars were actually built, so there are roughly 3500 unused numbers in the first series of which 12600-12699 are 100 of! The same goes for series 2 where only 3278 cars were built of a possible 5000, series 3 cars approximately 7200 of a possible 10000 and only around 1200 series 4 cars before the introduction of VIN numbers instead of the VA chassis number and another couple of thousand after.

It may also interest you to know that the first 500 series 2 cars were ALL Mimosa yellow and were ALL exported to Australia. So your series 2 car is a real rarity here.

Steve
12600 was me incorrectly remembering it ! It is 16727, so it's interesting to find out that it's a rare car in the UK.

The brochure shot shows that Sprints did come with a tan interior as late as series 3 cars. Were any series 1 cars built with this interior?
Series 3 and later cars (VA20000>) could ONLY choose from Black (11) Chestnut (63) and Beige (74, which you call Tan) for an interior colour.

According to my September 1975 parts list (which should NOT be considered a final authority) those 3 were all available for series 1, with the addition (so it says) of Shadow Blue (27) Grey (78) and New Tan (33) the last of which, IIRC, was a vinyl colour, was only used on the lower spec models and didn't come as a cloth option.

Elsewhere in my parts listing it gives 4 colour choices for Series 2 cars (VA15000>) those being Black, Chestnut, Beige and Shadow Blue.

So yes, according to the info I have, your car is perfectly entitled to carry a Beige interior. Which, to be frank, surprised me as I could have sworn Beige was series 3, 76>! Every day a school day!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2024 11:52 am 
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The paint removal and priming continues


Image

Image

Image

I'm off out to Hungary at the beginning of June to 'lay spanners' on my car with Toby - this will be the first time I've seen it since early 2019!

Engine rebuilding, plus other major mechanicals are at the top of the jobs list. Weather forecast is 30degC plus, wish us luck :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2024 6:07 pm 
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Just over a week's spannering in Hungary took us from here...

Image

via here...

Image

to here...

Image

The vid of it running is here - https://youtu.be/tJ0T1m5bTYc Oh, and all the tappet clearances are in the range 0~9thou, so I'll be on the hunt for some shims soon :o

The water pump confused us until we found this separate cast ('block saver' ?) ring in with the removed parts from a couple of years ago.

Image

Has anyone seen one before? It doesn't appear in the parts lists... We're thinking of making a replacement out of brass

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2024 8:11 am 
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Regarding the water pump collar, I've come to the conclusion that this was a 'block saver' fitted by the foundry or by the machinists at Canley because of a problem they found during manufacture.

At the foundry it would be either a poorly cast block or local porosity, at Canley poor machining or, again porosity, found during machining. It must have been a fairly common problem for this cast ring solution to have been developed. Therefore I'll be surprised if it's not been spotted before...

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2024 1:34 pm 
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I think this is an aftermarket repair, possibly following over zealous methods to remove a stuck brass cage that had been left behind in the block when pump removed.

I have never seen one fitted to another engine having pulled dozens of water pumps from Sprint/1850 and TR7 blocks...


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2024 12:15 pm 
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I think this is an aftermarket repair, possibly following over zealous methods to remove a stuck brass cage that had been left behind in the block when pump removed.

I'd agree if it was a machined steel insert but this is a cast ring. Who's going to cast one of these, only a foundry, surely?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2024 1:06 pm 
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I had a valve seat in my TR6 block repaired (pre lead free days) by a slice of cast bar being machined down to a ring and then sweated into a prepared recess...

As an aside, you may find your front crank seal leaks due to the register visible on the snout of your front pulley. You might be well advised to fit a better one before final assembly/fitting while it is easily accessed and still relatively loose. A turned down 1850 unit (they have a longer snout but otherwise identical) can provide virgin surface to create a seal that is as good as new.


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 Post subject: Hmmm….
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2024 8:59 pm 
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According to my September 1975 parts list (which should NOT be considered a final authority) those 3 were all available for series 1, with the addition (so it says) of Shadow Blue (27) Grey (78) and New Tan (33) the last of which, IIRC, was a vinyl colour, was only used on the lower spec models and didn't come as a cloth option.
Was New Tan not available in cloth on early 1850s?

Ian

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2024 4:16 pm 
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As an aside, you may find your front crank seal leaks due to the register visible on the snout of your front pulley. You might be well advised to fit a better one before final assembly/fitting while it is easily accessed and still relatively loose.
We'll have a butchers 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Hmmm….
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2024 8:50 pm 
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According to my September 1975 parts list (which should NOT be considered a final authority) those 3 were all available for series 1, with the addition (so it says) of Shadow Blue (27) Grey (78) and New Tan (33) the last of which, IIRC, was a vinyl colour, was only used on the lower spec models and didn't come as a cloth option.
Was New Tan not available in cloth on early 1850s?

Ian
Well, i've never SEEN new tan in anything but vinyl, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist in cloth, just that i've never seen it!

I have a full back seat here in new tan vinyl, a refugee from an old 4 door Toledo.

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Ohhh…..
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2024 8:55 pm 
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You have Steve…….DSX139L


I think New Tan was used in Sienna brown cars
but Sienna was not used on Sprints


Ian

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