1850 Clutch Change

[Llessur]

I'm about to change the clutch on my 1976 1850 with the single rail gearbox and just wanted to check what surprises/parts requirements I might come across doing the job - I'm based in Australia so finding out I need something half way through the job is likely to mean the car's immobile for the next two weeks whilst waiting for parts to arrive from the UK.

I've got an Exedy clutch kit (23 spline) and have ordered the good RHP bearing from Chris Witor. What are the chances I'll come across problems with the fork, carrier, slipper pads, shaft pin etc? Is it worth ordering any of these in advance to cover all bases?

I presume it's worthwhile replacing the spigot bush?

The main symptoms are judder at take-off in 1st and reverse, although biting point feels OK. I've got some poly engine mounts coming from Chris Witor as mine are not great and I have read that can contribute to the judder.

Given the juddering, I'm planning on taking the flywheel in for a light refacing. Are the flywheel bolts reusable?

Am planning on taking the box out from inside, any tips on that front are also very welcome. I've trawled through the forum history but most clutch-related posts are related to the 1500 and Sprint.

Thanks all!

[MIG Wielder]

Hi Liessur, The big problem with all the 1850 clutches is the fork. 132080; It cracks on the pivot points and right now is NLA. But it is compatable with the GT6 / Vitesse / Herald so there are forks available on E-Bay.
Yes there are 2 variants of spigot bearing available. A phosphor broze one and a needle roller. The change point is WF70991.
Phosphor bronze is 150763 and the needle roller is UKC 8154
I have an early 1850 but is still had the phosphor bronze bearing. I replaced it like for like 10 years ago and its been fine.
If you remove the gearbox from inside you have to remove the seats and drop the rear of the sub-frame. This means disconnecting the top hoses from the radiator..
Apart from that it is straightforward.
As regards clutch judder I would look first at engine & gearbox mounts.

HTH,
Tony.

[Llessur]

Thanks Tony, very helpful. Seats are no issue (I've got a new set to put in anyway and I wouldn't mind giving the carpets a good clean) but how easy is it to drop the rear of the subframe? Is it easier just to remove the engine and 'box together from above or do I still need to drop the subframe to get the gearbox to clear?

I've got new poly engine mounts coming so my plan is to replace those first and see if that improves the judder at all. I know they're on the way out as the engine jumps around quite a bit at idle - the mounts haven't separated as far as I can see, but they're certainly soft. The judder is quite severe though so I'd be surprised if it was just the mounts but I'm always keen on an easy fix if possible.

I'm WF54182 but the car was converted from an auto years ago so I'm not sure what type of bushing mine will have. Might be a case of having to order both but I'll have a chat with the previous owner to see whether he knows.

Clutch fork I'll inspect at the time and keep my fingers crossed.

[cliftyhanger]

I'm WF54182 but the car was converted from an auto years ago so I'm not sure what type of bushing mine will have. Might be a case of having to order both but I'll have a chat with the previous owner to see whether he knows.

Clutch fork I'll inspect at the time and keep my fingers crossed.

I have done an 1850 from inside, early 3 rail no od to single rail OD. The OD box is HEAVY. Top tip, get a couple of long bolts that will screw into th etop of the block, cut the heads off, and use them as guides to slide the box into position. It really makes the job so much easier. They need to be long enough so the input shaft is not engaged with the spigot bearing or clutch plate.
Next, spigot bearings. They must be interchangeable, and I have never had an issue with a PB bush. So if getting new, maybe just that one. I have (another car) had a needle roller spigot break up causing "interesting" side effects. ie locked input shaft to crank, felt like a stuck clutch.
Worth getting new gearbox mounts whilest doing the job. The volvo one is great for OD box, no idea of who supplies quality non-od mounts.
If the Clutch fork is cracked/damaged it can be repaired by a welder. I reckon a small core-plug could be welded in to fix.

These cars are excellent. We have clocked up almost 1000 miles running my sprint in since Christmas. Gill even used it to visit her 86 year old mum and take her out. She found it comfy and "liked the sound of the engine" which we take as a win. Very capable of sitting on the motorway at 70 (ish!) and returning well over 30mpg, that is before a proper tune.

Cheers
Clive

[Llessur]

Cheers Clive, I should have mentioned it's the non-OD single rail box, so hopefully not quite as big (or heavy) a mission to remove as the OD one. Good tip re the bolts, I'll definitely use that when the time comes.

I've seen a couple of sources of poly mounts for the non-OD box, I think they're the same as the Spitfire ones. Not cheap though - Rimmers want £25 each which seems a little steep, I'll keep searching on that front. I might try searching Mackay's parts catalogue over here - they're all Aussie made and have a good reputation. The 2500 crowd seem to rate the gearbox mount very highly.

It's annoying being so far away from plentiful parts supply out here, I tend to have to over-order for the simplest job if I don't want to delay the job by 2-3 weeks because I've had to order an annoyingly small part in from the UK. Will keep you posted on the fork front, hopefully it's all good.

Hope all is well with you and yours by the way!

[MIG Wielder]

Thanks Tony, very helpful. Seats are no issue (I've got a new set to put in anyway and I wouldn't mind giving the carpets a good clean) but how easy is it to drop the rear of the subframe? Is it easier just to remove the engine and 'box together from above or do I still need to drop the subframe to get the gearbox to clear?

Hi Again, I ran the front sub-frame nuts down to the point that all the threads were are still engaged with the bolts, and the rear ones I removed completely. I do have the heavy 4 speed box with overdrive though. Yours should be no trouble. Oh yes, you need to release the steering rack mounting bolts. I did it that way so I didn't have to re-engage the steering shaft which is always a bit of a fiddle.
Good luck with it,
Tony.

[Llessur]

Thanks Tony, will let you know how it goes

[ianw]

Hi all,
I`ve not posted much previously but I`ve had an early dolly 1850 for a few years now which I`m currently restoring.
I just wanted to say that I removed my gearbox (early 3 rail no overdrive) from inside the car last night without dropping the subframe and only removing
the passenger seat.
There was plenty of room and the cutout in the bulkhead seems to have been designed to facilitate this.
I should clarify that the engine is already out though!
I guess that the addition of an overdrive is what makes removal a bit trickier
May not go back in as easy with engine in situ?

[wgcjim20]

I recently single handidly replaced the single rail 'box on my 1300 dolly. I didn't need to drop the subframe, I can't imagine a non overdrive 1850 would be much different? With both seats removed I had plenty of room, and I used a few lengths of wood which I laid across the floor to help protect things and it helped being able to slide the box roughly into position!

I also used sawn off bolts in the engine which greatly simplified the alignment when mating box and engine together.

[Llessur]

Cheers both, I was hoping that would be the case as it's not a massive 'box. I'll make it work. Will swap out the engine and gearbox mounts first just to rule that our as a cause of the juddering but then get stuck into this shortly after if not.

[Carledo]

Pretty sure it's only the Sprint, which has a much bulkier gearbox, that the frame needs to be dropped on.

Steve

[ianw]

I put the engine back in the car yesterday along with a new clutch
When I put the box back on i`m planning to sit the back of the engine
on a scissor jack so i can adjust the angle, then put the box on a trolley jack & offer it up
& see how it goes.
One question is there supposed to be some sort of flexible cover in the bellhousing where the clutch
actuator fork goes in?
It seems to be a rather large hole to allow the fork to pivot to be left open to the elements
Ian

[Carledo]

I put the engine back in the car yesterday along with a new clutch
When I put the box back on i`m planning to sit the back of the engine
on a scissor jack so i can adjust the angle, then put the box on a trolley jack & offer it up
& see how it goes.
One question is there supposed to be some sort of flexible cover in the bellhousing where the clutch
actuator fork goes in?
It seems to be a rather large hole to allow the fork to pivot to be left open to the elements
Ian

Nothing goes in the clutch fork hole to blank it, at least, not that i've seen in over 50 years of Triumph working.

Steve

[ianw]

Thanks Steve,
I`m pretty thorough bagging and tagging when I take cars apart so I would be surprised if I`d
lost a part. Good to double check.
Still looks like a big old gap for road gravel & suchlike to get into....

[Oli_88]

Thanks Steve,
I`m pretty thorough bagging and tagging when I take cars apart so I would be surprised if I`d
lost a part. Good to double check.
Still looks like a big old gap for road gravel & suchlike to get into....

It makes a properly horrible noise and mess when you drop a washer and it manages to fall into the hole. Guess how I know...