The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

The Group 2 race cars of which there was only one genuine works/Broadspeed example which I rebuilt in 1995/6 ( image attached) and were run in the European Touring car championship, ETCC. They ran alongside the Jaguar Coupes. There were some semi works cars also run in that period by Swiss tuning guy Freddie Kessler.

Dolly racer 33 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:38 pm The Group 2 race cars of which there was only one genuine works/Broadspeed example which I rebuilt in 1995/6 ( image attached) and were run in the European Touring car championship, ETCC. They ran alongside the Jaguar Coupes. There were some semi works cars also run in that period by Swiss tuning guy Freddie Kessler.

Thanks for that< I was begining to despair of an answer. You wouldn't happen to have any info on dates or results would you?

Graham

Check Frank De Jong's website. It is the best for info on historic race http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9mSs2cd ... NoUDMxiOo-

As promised i did check my original FIA reliëf stamped homologation set and ST tuning data all original works papers and it seems I'm the onlyone with a complete set?

Group one homologated:
HS8 1 feb 1975
STR camshafts. 1 feb 1975
Weber 48's 1 jan 1977
Freudenberg damper. 1 jul 1978
Larger brakes. 1 jan 1977

Nothing special just normal homologated. As I said before the later gp1 engines had the same specs as the gp2 engines.

Jeroen

No Jeroen, I have 2 sets!!

Dolly racer 33 wrote:No Jeroen, I have 2 sets!!

I also actually. The latest version also with original fia stamps has such bad pics that those are ideal for scrutineering. The earlier version with clear pics is for duplicating parts.

Jeroen

The pictures in the FIA online versions of the recognition forms are fine, though a bit small - as said I can't tell if the calipers shown with the vented disks are larger than standard or even widenend.

Graham

There was only 1 size homologated disc for Group 1. It is a ventilated version of the original as used on police spec cars. There is a larger disc with AP 4 pot caliper homologated for group 2.

Dolly racer 33 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:39 pm There was only 1 size homologated disc for Group 1. It is a ventilated version of the original as used on police spec cars. There is a larger disc with AP 4 pot caliper homologated for group 2.

There certainly appear to be two disks homologated for group 1, the original disk dimensions of which are on page 7 of the recognition form (number 5542), and are 9.5 mm thick, and the vented disks on page 22, which are 19.05 mm thick. I assume that means some change to the calliper as well.

It's these vented disks (and their callipers) that I can't see are covered for group 1 by anything in appendix J 1976 - unless there were 5000 Dolomite Sprints with vented disks made in 1976 (the 12 months before their approval), which I assume would be better known about. And there's been enough talk about the need of vented front disks on this site that this fact should have been mentioned already. Hence, it seems to me that they were snuck in along with the dual circuit hydraulics, and Jeroen is correct if that's what's meant by "creative homologation".

However, none of that changes the fact that if HS8s or Webber 48s were being allowed through scrutineering in 1977-8, then either the British Saloon Car series can't have been Group 1 at the time, despite what's written about it, or something else odd was happening in scrutineering - there's just no clause in Appendix J 1976 for alternative carbs and manifolds for Group 1.

Graham

Not sure where you are getting your information from both the discs and carbuteettors are covered in the group1 homologation papers. The brakes ' car spec and the criteria st the time was that 200 cars had to be supplied with the carbs to homologated them for Group 1. They were supplied, usually in the boot!!!

A trick of course used by Alfa Romeo in the 90's for their BTCC car when they wanted to introduce a massive rear spolier. I seem to remember the 'bits in the boot' was quite a scandal at the time.

Homologation and evolution has always been a fiddle. To compete in 'Group 1' 5,000 examples needed to be built in any 1 year of production. There were less than 3,000 Mk1 and Mk2 Lotus Cortina in total yet they were homologated !!!

I'm going by the homologation papers (form of recognition) on the FIA's own website, address already given. There's nothing about carbs I can see in those, just the two disks for group one, and some others - two sets I think - for group 2. There's also nothing in the FIAs rules (Appendix J to the International sporting code) for 1976-8, also on the FIA website, about alternative carbs for group 1 - they are free for group 2 though.

There was, upto 1975, a 100 off rule that allowed mods for loads of stuff, including cylinder heads and gearboxs just for 100 "bolt-on kits" or parts. But that was for group 2 (and 4). That's article 260, clause BB of Appendix J 1975. That was dropped for 76, but they let approved mods and cars go till the end of 77, which is why the Stratos went back to 12v, the Celica to 8, and Vauxhall got in deep doings with the Lotus head on the HS. There's more to that business with Vauxhall, because it was homologated in 76 (backdated from 77) using a head that had been homolgated on the Magnum in 75. I suspect that was because the FIA miswrote the note that allowed parts that were homologated without saying on the car in question or sumert.

Graham

You are probably not get the appendices on the website. The Homologation papers number 5542 have the basic homologation which is the first part of the document, this basically provides all of the measurements of a standard car. The second part has the appendices for all of the updates including different cams, exhaust manifold, brakes etc.

The FIA's copy is 26 pages including 10 ammendments. The ammendments are for a heavy duty suspension (group 1 variant); heavy duty axle, vented 4 pot front brakes, and arch extensions (group 2 variant); strengthend front suspension brackets and strengthened rear radius arms (group 2 variant); another set of front disks and callipers and a rear disk and calliper set (group 2 variant); a reinforced rear axle (looks like Salsbury), reinforced suspension elements (inc subframe), another set of callipers, steering arm, steering rod, rollover bar, and fuel tank (group 2 variant); a fast rack (3.25 turns) (group 1 variant - export); an automatic gearbox and tunnel, and a dual circuit brake system (with vented disks and callipers) (group 1 variant), a chrome-iron block (group 1 variant); another roll bar (group 1 variant); an exhaust manifold (group 1 variant); two sliding doors and a conveyor belt. There's no carbs or cams, for group 1, and there wouldn't be any for group 2 because they were free for group 2.

But ammendment 17 isn't there.

Graham