A question for 1300 & 1500cc owners -Does your car have deflector boards fitted

[Carledo]

With E5 and soon to be E10 fuel the norm, the problem of fuel vaporisation on carburettored cars is more than it was in the days of old fashioned leaded 4 star. Purely because ethanol added fuels evaporate at a significantly lower temperature than the old stuff.

So I can envisage a number of cures,

1, fit fuel injection, this is expensive in installation and detracts from originality, but it's permanent and gives better performance, reliability and improved fuel economy. And because the fuel is constantly circulating, it's not in the rail long enough to boil, so the problem is solved.

2, get some louvres cut into the bonnet, at the back, near the bulkhead. Again, not cheap, especially when you take the painting into consideration. And not exactly original either. But they will let the hot air that would normally be stalled in front of the bulkhead out, so alleviating the fuel boiling problem and they certainly look cool as a cucumber!

3 Pop the bonnet when stationary in traffic. This really DOES work, costs nothing and doesn't detract from originality. I can testify from personal experience and experimentation that nothing bad will happen. Even driving with the catch released is not a problem till you get some speed up. At around 60mph the pressure under the bonnet will start to overcome the pressure (and weight of the bonnet itself) above it and, as if by magic, the bonnet will start to lift a bit. At around 85mph the bonnet rear edge will get up to around half way up the screen but seems to stall at this point when the pressure on both sides equalises. So, unless you are less than 5ft tall, you're probably OK!

Steve

[naskeet]

A question for 1300cc and 1500cc car owners – Does your car have deflector boards fitted and if they are fitted do they help prevent the engine overheating.

My assumption is that all SE may have them fitted what do SE owners think of them?

At the recent Northern Dolly day I noticed that Steve Waldenbergs 1500 SE had deflector boards fitted adjacent to the radiator grill, see attached photographs. I have owned over the years a number of 1500HLs but none of them have had defector boards fitted but today when I looked in my copy of the official Triumph Dolomite Range 1976 onwards Parts Catalogue it shows Deflector boards fitted to both 1300 and 1500 engines, Part numbers XKC 1291 & XKC 1290, on pages 1M 02L &1M 02R.

The official parts catalogue that I have does not actually cover the 1500 SE!

My assumption is that the deflector boards were introduced to force more air through the radiator and so improve the cooling hence should we be looking to fit some?

Looking at my 1500cc cars I consider that fitting some sort of deflector on the nearside might help but I think that the off side with the exhaust being fitted on that side I would still like a good flow of cool air passing down that side of the engine. The near side deflector would also be easier to make but I note that part of the deflector shown does have an area cut away to allow some air flow which I assume is to cool the alternator.

I have looked at the Rimmer's site and they do not recognize the defector board part numbers. Does anyone know of a supplier?

Until I read this post today, I had never heard of these deflector boards. When my father bought our circa 6 month old, ex-demonstrator, 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 from Mann Egerton (our local main Rover & Triumph dealership) in Leigh-on-Sea, Essex, in early-May 1975, it certainly wasn't then fitted with any of these.

Original Toledo radiators are shorter than 1300/1500 dolomites.

That's interesting! I shall have to compare my original 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 radiator with the late-model, Triumph Dolomite 1500 HL radiator that I salvaged.

My dolly 1300 had it fitted, my toledo 1300 does not, in my experience the difference is negligble and both cars run a little too cold if anything. This may just be because they take ages to warm up unlike modern, alloy block engines which are run quite lean

My 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 engine used to run cold too, and take a long time to warm up, until I substituted an 88 deg.C thermostat (the original 82 deg. C thermostat was actually opening at 72 deg.C) and retro-fitted a Kenlowe thermostatically-controlled electric fan, in place of the V-belt driven fan, in circa 1981/82. Once the engine warmed-up to running temperature, the heater & demister outputs were beautifully warm, even when snow was on the ground.

I would like to thank the people that have responded on this topic but as it has now been read by almost 200 people I would like to have seen a few more and am still hoping that we may get a few more.

Having discovered that Steve’s 1500SE has the baffles I have been studying my 1500CC cars and I have now noted that the radiator is not actually installed on the centre line of the car. It is fitted closer to the far side of the engine compartment and so the space adjacent to the radiator is not large as on the nearside. I have already stated on the discussion board I would not like to restrict the flow down the off side of the engine because the exhaust manifold and pipes run down that side of the engine. The baffle plates that were fitted during the build process were made from what looks like a stiff cardboard, not something that you would expect to stand up to getting wet when the car was being driven in the rain.

I do question the need for the baffles to be fitted but as the parts catalogue does indicate that they were fitted and I have now seen them on Steve’s 1500SE I decided to see if I could come up with my own design of baffle. The drawing in the parts catalogue for the nearside does indicate that the deflector does allow some air flow which I am assuming it is to cool the alternator. The design I have come up with just blanks off the nearside first two vent columns of the vent grille. To do this I cut up the plastic lid from a plastic tub and fitted it behind the vent grille. Being plastic getting wet will not be a problem but as the lid was green I sprayed the front side of it with mat black paint. I left the inner side green as it has been fitted onto my green 1500HL Dolomite and it will make it easier for other people to see what I have done. I used a spare vent grille that I had, to get the shape and to mark where the two holes for the grille fixings were needed. When it came to fitting the baffle I only had to take the two nearside vent fixings out as this allowed me to slip my deflector in behind the vent grille. Once in place it was just a matter of replacing the original fixings. I also like the fact that if the radiator has to come out for any reason you do not have to disturb the deflector.

It does now seem that we are about to get some hot weather but will I be caught up in slow moving or stopped traffic to see if it does make any difference. I still think that the tip that I was told, which is to release the bonnet catch, as this allows the bonnet to open a fraction and let the excess heat out, may be the best solution but I have not actually needed to try it since I was told the tip. As the bonnet hinges are on the front edge it is not going to fly up and cause any problems. I have found that on the odd occasion when I have had to use the built in emergency cooling system, switching on the heater, on a very hot day has no gone down well with the family.

I am finding it difficult to visualise how that green blanking plate is going to redirect any air flow onto the upstream side of the radiator!?!

[jackharper]

My dolly 1300 had it fitted, my toledo 1300 does not, in my experience the difference is negligble and both cars run a little too cold if anything. This may just be because they take ages to warm up unlike modern, alloy block engines which are run quite lean

My 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 engine used to run cold too, and take a long time to warm up, until I substituted an 88 deg.C thermostat (the original 82 deg. C thermostat was actually opening at 72 deg.C) and retro-fitted a Kenlowe thermostatically-controlled electric fan, in place of the V-belt driven fan, in circa 1981/82. Once the engine warmed-up to running temperature, the heater & demister outputs were beautifully warm, even when snow was on the ground.

In that case I may add what you did to the to-do list! mine must be a bit early opening too as it takes a good 20 minutes or so to get to the middle of the temp gauge.

[Richard the old one]

I believe the idea is that by blanking off some of the space either side of the radiator it will force more air to flow through the radiator and so improve the cooling.

I have just come back from having a few days based in Plymouth. I took my green 1500 Dolomite and I did not have any overheating problems as I did not get held up in traffic which is when we tend to get problems. I think popping the bonnet is the best way forward if you see the engine is starting to overheat.

[triumphtoledo]

These fibre boards made their first appearance on the face-lift 1975 on Toledos with the black grills. I have never seen them on earlier cars. My P plate Toledo 4-door has them. None of my 73/74 cars has them.

When Toledo morphed into square lamped Dolomites, they also inherited the fibre boards - my P plate 1500 square lamped Dolly had them fitted but they fell apart when I took the rad out and so have not been replaced.

I have had quite a few 1500HLs and none of them had the boards fitted, so I presume they were just for the square lamped cars. Interestingly, the square lamped Dolomites had a single horn, as opposed to the Toledo and Dolomite/Sprint's twin horns.

The parts books confirm my findings:

The quad lamped 1500TC did not have the fibre boards after the '75 facelift
Toledos 4-door 1300cc cars had the fibre boards from the '75 facelift - so Coventry built cars only
Dolomite 1300 and 1500cc Low Line square lamped cars had the fibre boards but the 1981 parts book states they were not fitted to the 1500HL.

I think the reason for their fitment is to deflect water away from the engine bay, rather than air. With the square lamped cars, there is a larger grille area through which water can enter, compared to the twin lamped HL cars.

Hope this helps.

Rob

[Richard the old one]

Many thanks to all the people who took time to respond to my post and Rob has certainly given us something to think about when he states that he thinks there fitment was to deflect water away from the engine bay but due to the passage of time I assume we will never get a definitive answer.

[xvivalve]

Rob, how do the part numbers compare across the models?

[naskeet]

Original Toledo radiators are shorter than 1300/1500 dolomites.

That's interesting! I shall have to compare my original 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 radiator with the late-model, Triumph Dolomite 1500 HL radiator that I salvaged.

I finally got around to measuring the important dimensions of my original 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 radiator and of the late-model, Triumph Dolomite 1500 HL radiator that I salvaged, which I have posted in another topic thread as follows:

Board index » The Triumph Dolomite Club » Dolomite-related [Start here!] » Substituting a Triumph Dolomite 1500 HL Engine Cooling-System Radiator into a Triumph Toledo 1300

https://forum.triumphdolomite.co.uk/vie ... 92#p338724

The Dolomite 1500HL radiator is 75 mm (i.e. circa 3 inches) longer than the Toledo 1300 radiator and both are of identical width. What I don’t have for the purpose of comparison, are the corresponding dimensions of the 1976~80 Triumph Dolomite 1300! Would anyone care to oblige?

[Carledo]

Original Toledo radiators are shorter than 1300/1500 dolomites.

That's interesting! I shall have to compare my original 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 radiator with the late-model, Triumph Dolomite 1500 HL radiator that I salvaged.

I finally got around to measuring the important dimensions of my original 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 radiator and of the late-model, Triumph Dolomite 1500 HL radiator that I salvaged, which I have posted in another topic thread as follows:

Board index » The Triumph Dolomite Club » Dolomite-related [Start here!] » Substituting a Triumph Dolomite 1500 HL Engine Cooling-System Radiator into a Triumph Toledo 1300

https://forum.triumphdolomite.co.uk/vie ... 92#p338724

The Dolomite 1500HL radiator is 75 mm (i.e. circa 3 inches) longer than the Toledo 1300 radiator and both are of identical width. What I don’t have for the purpose of comparison, are the corresponding dimensions of the 1976~80 Triumph Dolomite 1300! Would anyone care to oblige?

From my 1973 Toledo parts list and my 76> Dolomite parts list (published Feb 1981), the Toledo and Dolomite 1300 radiator is part number 518954 and the (export only) Toledo 1500, Dolomite 1500 and 1500HL radiator is part number 518955.

Steve

[Carledo]

I wouldn't be retrofitting or refitting the deflector to the driver's side space on either a single or dual headlight OHV car, as i'd consider it more important to get a plentiful supply of cold air into and around the carburettors to help with the fuel vaporisation problems mentioned above.

The deflector boards are nowhere to be found in my Toledo parts list (published Jan 74 but stamped elsewhere on the cover 26/02/1975) for either 1300cc OR 1500cc (export) models. They ARE mentioned in my 1976> Dolomite parts list as being fitted to all 1300 and 1500LL models but specifically NOT to 1500HLs. Part numbers are the same for both 1300 (SC) cars and 1500 (TC) cars

Steve

[TrustNo1]

The dolly 1300 didn't have them, the 1500HL did
There should be a carb heat shield fitted on the 1300 and 1500s

[Carledo]

The dolly 1300 didn't have them, the 1500HL did
There should be a carb heat shield fitted on the 1300 and 1500s

That's not what the book says!

Heat sheild between carbs and exhaust manifold is certainly a must-have, as is the ducting twixt airbox and grille (which you mentioned in the post you've now withdrawn) fersure also. I don't think the 1300SC versions had this ducting, but it wouldn't be difficult to make something to serve.

Steve

[TrustNo1]

The dolly 1300 didn't have them, the 1500HL did
There should be a carb heat shield fitted on the 1300 and 1500s

That's not what the book says!

Heat sheild between carbs and exhaust manifold is certainly a must-have, as is the ducting twixt airbox and grille (which you mentioned in the post you've now withdrawn) fersure also. I don't think the 1300SC versions had this ducting, but it wouldn't be difficult to make something to serve.

Steve

What does the book say?
If you read my post (which i reworded, not remove) I do say the 1500 had them but the 1300 didn't
All 1300 dolomites are single carb btw.