The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

To start with my language I’m not good at your british subtile writing something down and meaning something totally different and I won’t even try that. What I put down is what it is.

During that particular last post I was a bit annoyed of Graham alway’s commenting and me correcting his nonsens before someone would think what he writes down makes sense and actually tries out or follows that advice. It’s his sport I think to find as much as possible links on the internet what does say the opposite of what I say. He can but he should not write it down as an genuine advice or as a true fact before running his text through a fact check app or similar not to confuse the newbee’s such as you.

The primary resistance of the coil you measure through the pos and neg pole. An unballasted is 3ohm and a ballasted type 1,5ohm. Measure your testleads first as some multimeter leads can have already 1ohm of themselves and that does add up reading 2,5ohm at an 1,5ohm coil.

A simple calculation with rough figures gives 12v/3ohm is 4amps. 12v/1,5ohm is 8 amps. So a wrong coil or wrong connected coil can give twice the current. Electronic ignitions can’t handle 8 amps and fry themselves instantly or within minutes. The plastic of the repro points does melt. The good old fiber base points can handle the 8 amps and are forgiven so sometimes a good quality but wrong type coil does show after replacing points or fitting an electronic unit after years of running ok.

Normally the 1,5ohm coil has it’s resistor of 1,5ohm making the total of 3ohm. Then all will work again. The total current through the system and thus the ballasted coil is also 4 amps again. Without the resistor the current through the coil will be 8 amps and the cheaper inferior coils can’t handle that and destroy’s the coil.

You cannot trust any supplier. These are sellers and a lot of so called specialists most of these don’t know. Alway’s check and never assume it is the right new part you have. Also do not trust the old part. Daily people and mechanics replace the sparkplugs by the same what they found in the engine. So one time someone fitted wrong ones because of short of the correct ones and the next one fits the same wrong ones as he did find those fitted in the engine…

I currently have a problem Volvo 244 of a customer what did visit two major classic Volvo specialists before and the first thing I find is a blue Bosch unballasted coil fitted next to a resistor….
That are the current specialists…. Not all but 80% does make these kind of mistakes and has no clue and those specialists make me a living sorting their mess out on their customers cars.

You did buy at Rimmers but unfortunatley those Lucas parts aren’t Lucas. Just the text on the boxes. There is one manufacturer and all classic car parts sellers do sell the same parts so it’s not that particular seller that supplies these. All just supply what is available and that are those toy parts. When you did buy the coil at Rimmers, you PROBABLY have the correct type, a ballasted type but it’s Chinese repro and not that good. The points and condenser also and I think 40% of the new condensors are already faulty in their box and the other 60% fails within 1000km.

Try to find NOS genuine Lucas on ebay or in unipart boxes what also are genuine Lucas parts from the old day’s. Fit it and you have some sort of quality.

The coil you have is a ballasted type for a sprint and connecting it the way you have it connected is skipping the resistor.
What you are doing now is blowing up coils and blowing up electronic ignitions by running the 8amps through all.

The best coils available are the Bosch ones. Red as ballasted type and blue as unballasted. Alloy with a coloured decal.
You have to check for voltage on the white/yellow wire as that should bet he correct coil feed with a resistor. When there’s no voltage on that you CAN have a missing white/pink wire that is a ballasted feed wire. When there’s only the white/yellow the ballasted wire is connected tot hat internally so both are resistor wires.

When you can’t find anything you can fit a seperate resistor inbetween your red wire and the coil pos.

So before even proceeding find the original (type of) feed and know (MEASURE) what coil you have.

Check the points gap but it is also a posibility that your direct 12v red wire feed running 8 amps through such a toy coil did already damaged it starting running rough. It can also be that your new toy condensor is already failing.

Then measure or investigate further when you know the correct parts are fitted.


Jeroen

Joe, to help you understand how a ballasted system works, here are 4 short videos...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec7gSyVrh4g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vdd2gUZB_E0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF1NHnehOvk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRN0ofFc0uo

I must have posted these at least a half a dozen times on here hoping they will help people to understand, they helped me. They cover the MGB but it's a similar system.

jlan1978 wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 9:17 pm Jeroen come on please, can we communicate without the adolescent tone and attitude?
Can you understand that we have people on here with 30 years experience versus people with 30 days experience. If this isn't taken into account its a race to the bottom in regard the quality and sincerity of this forum and Club, and worse of all it will discourage people from taking part, trying to learning and preserving the cars we all love.

Myself I am closer to the 30 days experience level so I am going to struggle with certain questions and points during the communication. This isn't meant to waste people's time, patience and energy its just I don't understand.
I get what you are saying regarding the parts and measuring and I'm putting one jigsaw piece in at a time. Also if we cannot trust suppliers and their knowledge and advice ??

Regarding your questions:
The resistance of the coil I have no idea how to test this so i will need to research and come back on that.
The coil is connected as follows, One red wire coming from the Fuse box to the + side giving 12v power, one wire coming from the loom white in color to the + side.
One wire coming from the loom looks white to the - side, then the distributor wire from the condenser connected to the - side.
The Coil, Points and Condenser are Lucas from Rimmers.

Again your help, time and experience is genuinely appreciated
Joe

In Jeroen's defence, he IS one of the 30 year men! And has been banging this drum for longer than i've been on this forum (a mere 12 years or so, though i'm a 50 year man having started my apprenticeship on Triumph and Austin in 1970) He treats the suggestion that ballasted coils run on 6 or 9 volts with the same disdain that I award people who think that Scotchlok connectors are a good fix! And he sometimes gets a bit frustrated (don't we all?) when he can't seem to get the message across!

Now, lets all play nice!

I think your answer lies in this rogue red wire. It's drawing off the fusebox at 12v UN-BALLASTED, then you have the "White" wire which is probably actually white with a yellow trace if you can get to a clean bit to see it, which is providing a 12v BALLASTED feed to the coil. The other "white" wire at coil -ve is almost certainly the white/slate for the rev counter and is fine where it is. As is the lead to the points from coil -ve.

So here is a test so simple anyone can do it right. Disconnect the red lead from coil +ve, tuck it away out of harms way and try starting the car. It SHOULD run and run fine like that. If it doesn't run, then the simple fix is to reconnect the red lead, fit a standard unballasted 12v coil and disconnect the "white" from coil +ve. Whichever way you do it, the coil doesn't NEED or want 2 different 12v feeds!

Steve

If you want to fix your car, listen to Jerome and ignore Graham....
Just my best advice for you.

Hi Joe.

I can recommend 'The Distributor Doctor' http://www.distributordoctor.com/ for good quality points and condenser. They are more expensive than those from our regular suppliers, but as others have said, the reliability of the current offerings does leave much to be desired.
A new set may be a good start to get your car running, even if you do decide to go down the electronic route in future.

Modern distributor caps are also a known weak point due to quality. A genuine Lucas item is well worth seeking out when they crop up.

All the best and I hope you resolve the running issues soon.

Matt.

Afternoon all

Ok so on measurement the coil is reading 6ohm safe to say that is fried?
With the ignition on pre start position(Ignition lights on) one loom wire is reading 0 volts the other is reading 4 volts.

Next steps:
I'll fit a new coil check measurement get 1,5 ohms, connect the 4Volts wire to the + and the 0 Volt wire to the - along with the Disb wire and give this a try?

@Mad Mart them videos did help but in Video 4 did he not have a power wire from the fuse box and the wire from the Starter? This looks exactly what was on mine.

@Jeroen does your business offer Video call consultation?

Again thanks to all I feel like i'm getting somewhere and continually learning.

@Mad Mart them videos did help but in Video 4 did he not have a power wire from the fuse box and the wire from the Starter? This looks exactly what was on mine.

Yes, that is correct for a 'ballasted' system. The pink/white is the ballast wire (resistor) which gets power from the fuse box via the ignition switch. The white/yellow comes from the starter but is only live on cranking the engine.

jlan1978 wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 1:21 pm Afternoon all

Ok so on measurement the coil is reading 6ohm safe to say that is fried?
With the ignition on pre start position(Ignition lights on) one loom wire is reading 0 volts the other is reading 4 volts.

I'll fit a new coil check measurement get 1,5 ohms, connect the 4Volts wire to the + and the 0 Volt wire to the - along with the Disb wire and give this a try?


@Jeroen does your business offer Video call consultation?

Again thanks to all I feel like i'm getting somewhere and continually learning.

6ohm is a bit of an odd reading. A shorted coil should read less than 3 or 1,5 depending on type. What is the resistance of your multimeter leads when you hold the tips together? Sometimes a low battery of the multimeter does also give some different readings than the actual. When measuring no wires should be connected to the coil.

The ballasted feed wire should read around 12v also connected to nothing. When it's at the coil and an actual current is running you will measure a lower voltage around 9 volts.

My business has no video call. I actually have only email and when I'm in a good mood I pick up the phone sometimes. Deleted the whatsapp and switched off the companies FB messenger. The more communication the greater disturbance during the day. This filters the spontanious callers 'I have an Golf 1 and fitted a Golf 5 engine and now the right rearlight doesn't work. What can that be?' or the 'do you have 1,5 meter wire red with a blue tracer?'. The customers for harnesses and the ones with electrical issues who take the effort of sending an email with their issue's are more seriously and actually do want something. The people busy in the shed, googling a number and call the first number they see for help are most of the time a waste of time.

You can send me an email with your phonenumber and then go by private whatsapp or messenger. Whatsapp has the preferance because of easy sending pics.

Mad Mart wrote:
Yes, that is correct for a 'ballasted' system. The pink/white is the ballast wire (resistor) which gets power from the fuse box via the ignition switch. The white/yellow comes from the starter but is only live on cranking the engine.

There are one white/yellow wire ballasted systems also. Then that single one is the ballasted coil feed and the bypass in one wire. Two wires is as Mad Mart describes.

Jeroen

I've seen "factory" wiring to the coil in several different variations, a single white/pink, a single white/yellow, both on a single terminal, and (may not have been standard fit) both on 2 separate tags. There doesn't SEEM to be any logic to how this works, but since the cars are all 40+ years old, ANYHING could have happened, up to and including complete loom replacement from an earlier or later car.

But this is only what shows at the end of the plastic sleeve round the bit of loom that goes to the coil. Under cover of the loom, they're all exactly the same! The white/pink ballast lead (all 5 or so feet of it) starts inside the loom near the N/S suspension turret where it is joined to a white unfused ignition live. It travels, still completely within the loom, into the car on the nearside of the firewall, right across the bulkhead and out under the bonnet again on the offside. Just near where the loom exits the bulkhead on the offside it spurs off with the white/slate rev counter lead and heads to the coil +ve. Somewhere in this sleeve it joins to the white/yellow ballast bypass lead that originates at the starter. This joining point is the ONLY difference and, though it can be confusing, doesn't affect the actual circuits at all.

When disconnected from the coil and ignition on, this lead should show you 12v and around 1.5ohms. If it doesn't show ANY voltage then there is a fault somewhere inside the loom.

Steve

Evening All

Ok i Changed the Multimeter batteries and with leads together its reading 3 ohms but will flick to 4-5ohms
I checked the coil again and its still 6ohms. Sounds like a faulty meter?

Jeroen I'll send you a mail from jlan1978@hotmail.com.

Yes, that is correct for a 'ballasted' system. The pink/white is the ballast wire (resistor) which gets power from the fuse box via the ignition switch. The white/yellow comes from the starter but is only live on cranking the engine.
There are one white/yellow wire ballasted systems also. Then that single one is the ballasted coil feed and the bypass in one wire. Two wires is as Mad Mart describes.

On the above:
Should the car have two + wires connecting to the coil a white/Yellow one from the starter and also a Pink/White one from the Fuse Box.
In the case of mine I have the Yellow/White wire form the starter but not the Pink/white form the fuse box. The red wire was fitted as a replacement for the pink/white wire but with no resistance hence the issues

Thanks

jlan1978 wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 9:02 pm Evening All

Ok i Changed the Multimeter batteries and with leads together its reading 3 ohms but will flick to 4-5ohms
I checked the coil again and its still 6ohms. Sounds like a faulty meter?

Jeroen I'll send you a mail from jlan1978@hotmail.com.

Yes, that is correct for a 'ballasted' system. The pink/white is the ballast wire (resistor) which gets power from the fuse box via the ignition switch. The white/yellow comes from the starter but is only live on cranking the engine.
There are one white/yellow wire ballasted systems also. Then that single one is the ballasted coil feed and the bypass in one wire. Two wires is as Mad Mart describes.

On the above:
Should the car have two + wires connecting to the coil a white/Yellow one from the starter and also a Pink/White one from the Fuse Box.
In the case of mine I have the Yellow/White wire form the starter but not the Pink/white form the fuse box. The red wire was fitted as a replacement for the pink/white wire but with no resistance hence the issues

Thanks

The Pink/white lead DOES NOT COME FROM THE FUSEBOX. It starts inside the loom and is fed from the ignition switch (see my post above for exact description) The red lead you have coming from the fusebox is somebodies add on, it's NOT OE and never has been!

Steve

I've seen "factory" wiring to the coil in several different variations, a single white/pink, a single white/yellow, both on a single terminal, and (may not have been standard fit) both on 2 separate tags. There doesn't SEEM to be any logic to how this works, but since the cars are all 40+ years old, ANYHING could have happened, up to and including complete loom replacement from an earlier or later car.

Yes, as Jeroen pointed out, it doesn't matter if it is one or two wires, the two configurations are the same. On the single wire configuration the ballast resister wire (pink/white) joins the yellow/white in the loom.

Morning all

So making progress turns out the car was wired unballasted so have it traced down to a weak spark from the coil.
My next step is trying to source original Lucas Points and Condenser so if you know anyone could you let me know.

Thanks everyone for the input its been a big help in making progress and learning.
A huge thanks to Jeroen, Jeroen spent half a day yesterday sending me Whats app messages with directions and tests absolute Gentleman.

Yes Jeroen is a good sort. Sometimes misunderstood because English isn't his first language.

jlan1978 wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 10:02 am Morning all

So making progress turns out the car was wired unballasted so have it traced down to a weak spark from the coil.
My next step is trying to source original Lucas Points and Condenser so if you know anyone could you let me know.

Thanks everyone for the input its been a big help in making progress and learning.
A huge thanks to Jeroen, Jeroen spent half a day yesterday sending me Whats app messages with directions and tests absolute Gentleman.

Have PM'd you.