Newbie, I know, the car deserved better.
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Toledo Man
- Guest contributor
- Posts: 7542
- Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:52 pm
- Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire
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Re: Newbie, I know, the car deserved better.
I could do with a forklift truck to get my engine out. Congrats on getting your water pump out. I hope your bypass tube doesn't leak when you put it back together.
Toledo Man
West Yorkshire Area Organiser
Meetings take place on the first Wednesday of the month at 8.00pm at The Railway, 1 Birstall Lane, Drighlington, Bradford, BD11 1JJ
2003 Volvo XC90 D5 SE (PX53 OVZ - The daily driver)
2009 Mercedes-Benz W204 C200 CDI Sport (BJ58 NCV - The 2nd car)
1991 Toyota Celica GT (J481 ONB - a project car)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint), NYE 751L (1972 Dolomite 1850 auto) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!
Check my blog at http://triumphtoledo.blogspot.com
My YouTube Channel with a bit of Dolomite content.
"There is only one way to avoid criticsm: Do nothing, say nothing and BE nothing." Aristotle
West Yorkshire Area Organiser
Meetings take place on the first Wednesday of the month at 8.00pm at The Railway, 1 Birstall Lane, Drighlington, Bradford, BD11 1JJ
2003 Volvo XC90 D5 SE (PX53 OVZ - The daily driver)
2009 Mercedes-Benz W204 C200 CDI Sport (BJ58 NCV - The 2nd car)
1991 Toyota Celica GT (J481 ONB - a project car)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint), NYE 751L (1972 Dolomite 1850 auto) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!
Check my blog at http://triumphtoledo.blogspot.com
My YouTube Channel with a bit of Dolomite content.
"There is only one way to avoid criticsm: Do nothing, say nothing and BE nothing." Aristotle
Re: Newbie, I know, the car deserved better.
Just ruined the brass cage removal memory,
Still have to get the waterpump bush out of the block
Still have to get the waterpump bush out of the block
NRW 581W Sprint
On the motorway no one can hear me sing!
Construed as a public service, self preservation in reality.
On the motorway no one can hear me sing!
Construed as a public service, self preservation in reality.
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MIG Wielder
- TDC Member
- Posts: 2338
- Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:52 pm
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Jon Tilson
- Guest contributor
- Posts: 11179
- Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:45 pm
- Location: Middlesex
Re: Newbie, I know, the car deserved better.
The bush at the bottom I would honestly leave as this is a gold seal block.
By all means inspect closely but over the years Ive taken to only changing them in extremely badly worn pump teeth cases.
They just dont seem to wear much and if the pump was just dribbling it should be fine.
The second hand cage on ebay looks fine to me...
Jonners
By all means inspect closely but over the years Ive taken to only changing them in extremely badly worn pump teeth cases.
They just dont seem to wear much and if the pump was just dribbling it should be fine.
The second hand cage on ebay looks fine to me...
Jonners
Note from Admin: sadly Jon passed away in February 2018 but his humour and wealth of knowledge will be fondly remembered by all. RIP Jonners.
Re: Newbie, I know, the car deserved better.
I was going to re-use the brass cage, but after a cleanup, there is chipping evidence internally, most likely bits from the impeller.
- 2015-11-14 16.15.33.jpg (147.09 KiB) Viewed 1091 times
NRW 581W Sprint
On the motorway no one can hear me sing!
Construed as a public service, self preservation in reality.
On the motorway no one can hear me sing!
Construed as a public service, self preservation in reality.
Re: Newbie, I know, the car deserved better.
Thanks Jon
I'll check the bush with a finger, if it's smooth, it stays.
I'll check the bush with a finger, if it's smooth, it stays.
NRW 581W Sprint
On the motorway no one can hear me sing!
Construed as a public service, self preservation in reality.
On the motorway no one can hear me sing!
Construed as a public service, self preservation in reality.
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Jon Tilson
- Guest contributor
- Posts: 11179
- Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:45 pm
- Location: Middlesex
Re: Newbie, I know, the car deserved better.
looks more like damage from removal attempts to me.
The impellor should never come into contact with the cage.
If it has good O ring seal points and the bearing will fit it looks ok to me...
if the pump is apart you can check the bush fit with the pump spindle..if it wiggles a lot change it.
Jonners
The impellor should never come into contact with the cage.
If it has good O ring seal points and the bearing will fit it looks ok to me...
if the pump is apart you can check the bush fit with the pump spindle..if it wiggles a lot change it.
Jonners
Note from Admin: sadly Jon passed away in February 2018 but his humour and wealth of knowledge will be fondly remembered by all. RIP Jonners.
Re: Newbie, I know, the car deserved better.
It's a bugger to get out, I tried everything then resorted to using a small drift to bend it enough so I could pull it out. Mine was worn though.
Re: Newbie, I know, the car deserved better.
I will check the pump to cage fit Jon, but the damage on the cage uprights were not done by me, I only levered the cage from underneath, the chips are on every upright and all roughly the same.
I summised the same that there should be no contact, and the vane deterioration is on the top, unless ground bits got down, or there are foreign objects coming up?
Can't get to the coolant drain plug right now, but the bore does need inspecting in case of removable debris.
I summised the same that there should be no contact, and the vane deterioration is on the top, unless ground bits got down, or there are foreign objects coming up?
Can't get to the coolant drain plug right now, but the bore does need inspecting in case of removable debris.
NRW 581W Sprint
On the motorway no one can hear me sing!
Construed as a public service, self preservation in reality.
On the motorway no one can hear me sing!
Construed as a public service, self preservation in reality.
Re: Newbie, I know, the car deserved better.
As there is now a wait for some spares, I removed the carbs from the inlet manifold.
Just as well, during a bit of cleaning, I came across this,
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- 2015-11-14 20.18.52.jpg (60.03 KiB) Viewed 1074 times
- 2015-11-14 20.19.19.jpg (126.38 KiB) Viewed 1074 times
NRW 581W Sprint
On the motorway no one can hear me sing!
Construed as a public service, self preservation in reality.
On the motorway no one can hear me sing!
Construed as a public service, self preservation in reality.
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Carledo
- TDC Shropshire Area Organiser
- Posts: 7253
- Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:12 pm
- Location: Highley, Shropshire
Re: Newbie, I know, the car deserved better.
Right, I was right and wrong, the 12v impeller is loose and the pump has the 6v impeller on it!
Pictures
The pump is obviously used but the brass cage looks OK (what I can see of it)
The 12v impeller is probably used but seems in good nick.
£20 for the 12v impeller (including postage) or £35 for the pair (they are heavy)
Steve
PS Yes i'm up for RBRR in 2016 let me know what details you need for the application!
PPS, just seen your latest post, think I have an H pipe too, will have to check. OR Chris Witor does new ones in stainess!
Pictures
The pump is obviously used but the brass cage looks OK (what I can see of it)
The 12v impeller is probably used but seems in good nick.
£20 for the 12v impeller (including postage) or £35 for the pair (they are heavy)
Steve
PS Yes i'm up for RBRR in 2016 let me know what details you need for the application!
PPS, just seen your latest post, think I have an H pipe too, will have to check. OR Chris Witor does new ones in stainess!
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!
Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!
Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.
Re: Newbie, I know, the car deserved better.
Hi Steve, send me the pair, I'll sort payment out Monday morning, whatever I don't use will get cleaned up and packaged with a refurb kit for the future.
Will pm you the rbrr requirements, I think it's just name, address, dob, jumper size?.
I had already ordered the stainless pipe from Chris Witor before you put up the post, don't spend time looking on my account.
Thanks
Will pm you the rbrr requirements, I think it's just name, address, dob, jumper size?.
I had already ordered the stainless pipe from Chris Witor before you put up the post, don't spend time looking on my account.
Thanks
NRW 581W Sprint
On the motorway no one can hear me sing!
Construed as a public service, self preservation in reality.
On the motorway no one can hear me sing!
Construed as a public service, self preservation in reality.
-
secondtimer
Re: Newbie, I know, the car deserved better.
Mahesh,
Your water pump saga is well timed as i'm just doing mine and like Jonners have done a few before.
A couple of things though, check you have the graphite seal on up the right way as from your photo it 'appears' as though you have the steel casing facing upwards towards the underside of the impeller. One you pop it all into the brass cage it all becomes 'solid' and runs ok....but, you are in the same position I was, where the cage stayed in the block when you pulled the pump out.
A tip is to drop the pump drive shaft with its bearing on into the brass cage first. If it won't go in (as mine wouldn't as I also used a replacement cage) heat the cage up a little first, then drop the shaft & bearing in. Then once well cooled you can fit in the rest of the bits (seal and flinger) before pressing the graphite seal into place.
I think I've been fortunate in that the underside, mating face of my impeller is in pretty good nick so am just going to lap it slightly tomorrow, but most would advise a fine skim in a lathe otherwise the seal will still leak when you put it all back together.
Geoff
PS.Can post some pics tomorrow if you need any.
Your water pump saga is well timed as i'm just doing mine and like Jonners have done a few before.
A couple of things though, check you have the graphite seal on up the right way as from your photo it 'appears' as though you have the steel casing facing upwards towards the underside of the impeller. One you pop it all into the brass cage it all becomes 'solid' and runs ok....but, you are in the same position I was, where the cage stayed in the block when you pulled the pump out.
A tip is to drop the pump drive shaft with its bearing on into the brass cage first. If it won't go in (as mine wouldn't as I also used a replacement cage) heat the cage up a little first, then drop the shaft & bearing in. Then once well cooled you can fit in the rest of the bits (seal and flinger) before pressing the graphite seal into place.
I think I've been fortunate in that the underside, mating face of my impeller is in pretty good nick so am just going to lap it slightly tomorrow, but most would advise a fine skim in a lathe otherwise the seal will still leak when you put it all back together.
Geoff
PS.Can post some pics tomorrow if you need any.
Re: Newbie, I know, the car deserved better.
Thanks Geoff,
I'm waiting for the impeller from Steve at the moment, mine is seriously worn, corroded, and chipped all over.
I got the brass cage out Saturday, (the forklift is pretty good, no damage to the cage at all) but the cage is
chipped internally all round, in the rotation of the pump, which leaves me to believe that some of the impeller
had got in there.
I haven't done the final assembly yet, and will turn the seal over, once I have the replacement impeller and
new cage. Once a check is done as to how it all fits together am I'm satisfied that all is good, I plan to clean
out the shaft in the block, (there's bits in there) followed by cage insertion, shaft with bearings, and lastly
impeller and nut, then comes the clearance checking, the old gasket was a very thin one, with dollops of
gasket seal everywhere.
Also hope to do some more photos, as the manual is not hard to follow, nor are Jon's instructions, but pictures
may help me in the future or another forum user.
The block mating face to cage on mine is not very good, expected better, which leads to the conclusion that the old
pump may have been transferred over when the engine was changed, and BL Rover had not cleaned the old cage,
this will have to be hand sanded.
Luckily the bush in the block seems fine.
Your going the other way to me, which is interesting, I've been freezing components to remove, you heat them.
I was planning to heat the block with a paint removal heat gun, if the cage needed to much force to insert, and
leaving the shaft in the freezer overnight to contract for a fit.
Please do post pictures up, I will also, as this is interesting, feel free to put them on my resto thread if you want.
My waterpump saga is taking long, but only because I get 45 mins in the morning before work (can't get too dirty)
and about an 1 and half hour in the evening (dark, artificial mobile lighting), and I have to pack away tools and
tidy up in that time.
The upside of all this is that, I am cleaning all items removed (not to James's standard) not even close), inspecting,
replacing worn bits, and painting them up if possible, which should make future leaks easily identifiable.
Also, I am looking at the polyurethane elastic polymer coating, but this may not happen for a month or so, but it
looks like it could almost immortalise dolly impellers, which means I may open up again, (must remember to copper
grease all the bolts).
I'm waiting for the impeller from Steve at the moment, mine is seriously worn, corroded, and chipped all over.
I got the brass cage out Saturday, (the forklift is pretty good, no damage to the cage at all) but the cage is
chipped internally all round, in the rotation of the pump, which leaves me to believe that some of the impeller
had got in there.
I haven't done the final assembly yet, and will turn the seal over, once I have the replacement impeller and
new cage. Once a check is done as to how it all fits together am I'm satisfied that all is good, I plan to clean
out the shaft in the block, (there's bits in there) followed by cage insertion, shaft with bearings, and lastly
impeller and nut, then comes the clearance checking, the old gasket was a very thin one, with dollops of
gasket seal everywhere.
Also hope to do some more photos, as the manual is not hard to follow, nor are Jon's instructions, but pictures
may help me in the future or another forum user.
The block mating face to cage on mine is not very good, expected better, which leads to the conclusion that the old
pump may have been transferred over when the engine was changed, and BL Rover had not cleaned the old cage,
this will have to be hand sanded.
Luckily the bush in the block seems fine.
Your going the other way to me, which is interesting, I've been freezing components to remove, you heat them.
I was planning to heat the block with a paint removal heat gun, if the cage needed to much force to insert, and
leaving the shaft in the freezer overnight to contract for a fit.
Please do post pictures up, I will also, as this is interesting, feel free to put them on my resto thread if you want.
My waterpump saga is taking long, but only because I get 45 mins in the morning before work (can't get too dirty)
and about an 1 and half hour in the evening (dark, artificial mobile lighting), and I have to pack away tools and
tidy up in that time.
The upside of all this is that, I am cleaning all items removed (not to James's standard) not even close), inspecting,
replacing worn bits, and painting them up if possible, which should make future leaks easily identifiable.
Also, I am looking at the polyurethane elastic polymer coating, but this may not happen for a month or so, but it
looks like it could almost immortalise dolly impellers, which means I may open up again, (must remember to copper
grease all the bolts).
NRW 581W Sprint
On the motorway no one can hear me sing!
Construed as a public service, self preservation in reality.
On the motorway no one can hear me sing!
Construed as a public service, self preservation in reality.
Re: Newbie, I know, the car deserved better.
Note to self.
DO NOT UNDO THE COOLANT DRAIN PLUG WHILST UNDER THE CAR!
Loosen 1/4 turn and remove by hand from top.
DO NOT UNDO THE COOLANT DRAIN PLUG WHILST UNDER THE CAR!
Loosen 1/4 turn and remove by hand from top.
NRW 581W Sprint
On the motorway no one can hear me sing!
Construed as a public service, self preservation in reality.
On the motorway no one can hear me sing!
Construed as a public service, self preservation in reality.