Dolomite values

[cleverusername]

A couple of months ago,
on the Official Triumph Dolomite Facebook page there is a thread concerning an early Sprint offered
for sale on ebay in Yorkshire.
At the start of this thread one individual stated that this car is a reshell,
this being stated without any evidence other than some extremely feeble argument about the position of aftermarket door mirrors .....
this resulted in a no sale auction, despite Mike Barker confirming that this car is genuine.
That one comment has caused thousands to be knocked off the potential value of this car.

The name of said individual I think is familiar, so he may even be a club member?
No doubt he is very pleased with himself.


Having thought about what happened, I made the decision to leave that group permanently.



Ian.

I am sorry but I think this is non-sense. Such opinions are given all the time on all models of cars, including things like escorts and it doesn't knock their values down.

[sprint95m]

I am sorry but I think this is non-sense. Such opinions are given all the time on all models of cars, including things like escorts and it doesn't knock their values down.

From memory (I can no longer access the page to provide a link I'm afraid)......
The car made about 11K in the first auction but the buyer refused to pay on the grounds that it was a reshell,
this assertion being based on said Facebook page thread.
It was relisted and this time the final bid was some 2.5K less.

Somehow I doubt the the seller, Lee, will agree that it is nonsense (there is no hyphen in nonsense).




Ian.

[sprint95m]

That one comment has caused thousands to be knocked off the potential value of this car.

No it hasn't, what a load of rubbish.

Please see my post above, Anthony.



Thanks,

Ian.

[RobSun]

Steve I really respect where you are coming from and keeping my 1300 till I pop my clogs would be my wish also. You however have the skills and premises to be able to do this at the price of parts only. Those of us not so fortunate, I have arthritis in my spine a big problem at times doing bigger and sometimes smaller jobs, a single garage, great for keeping it safe and minor work, no good for a respray, a large long double width drive but shared with my neighbour so I need to leave access for their vehicles. I am therefore forced to seek professional services at times and for most things needed on the underside. That gets expensive and this is when the sad decisions have to be made on finance. Is it worth spending £3500 on getting remedial work done but probably need more in the future, £7000 on a full strip and repaint on something that would maybe be worth £3000 max sold or £5500 as an insurance write off. Or buy a really good replacement for £2500- £3500 and use the other when the time comes for the parts I have put on it to keep it going,

The common sense financial head says donor car, heart says restore, but if the sales value was closer or at the insurance value of today then the car gets saved. Simply we need to start being prepared to pay a bit more realistic price for the cars to keep them viable. When I got the prices last year the restorer near Harrogate was surprised by my refusing his offer. He indicated that in his mind the car was worth around £6000.00 as it was and was baffled when I told him it was near £2500.

I don't show this car now as much as I did, using it, which surprises many, because that's what they are for has speeded up deterioration, but Joe Public and owners of other make classics often ask me what its worth, and I tell them the insurance value and then what I expect it would sell for. They are surprised, one
said he would say it was 20k others over 10k but most in the 5-7k area based on their perceptions. They are not Triumph Dolomite enthusiasts and see the car as an historic vehicle in its own right and compare it to those around it. They look and see a valuable classic , we see something that is not much more than an eight to ten year old banger in value. I'm not saying they should realise 10-20K for a 1300, but yes a sprint, and maybe the 5K-7K for good lesser variants and that would mean the difference to saving or breaking.

At last months club meeting one of our members mentioned a non members Dolomite 1300 that the owner was considering selling and putting out feelers. An imaculate example with only 29000 miles from new. Looking for £3500, undervalued yes, realistic price to obtain yes but probably go for less. That as a proposition to working on mine, yes a better financial proposition. But still in my mind not good for our cars.

Maybe I am out of cync with the rest of you but I still see it as the only way to keep them going in the numbers left. I also would say use them, keep the parts supply up, £7000 isnt a lot in todays economy, most modern cars on the road cost a lot more than that.

[D16PJM]

I am sorry but I think this is non-sense. Such opinions are given all the time on all models of cars, including things like escorts and it doesn't knock their values down.

From memory (I can no longer access the page to provide a link I'm afraid)......
The car made about 11K in the first auction but the buyer refused to pay on the grounds that it was a reshell,
this assertion being based on said Facebook page thread.
It was relisted and this time the final bid was some 2.5K less.

Somehow I doubt the the seller, Lee, will agree that it is nonsense (there is no hyphen in nonsense).




Ian.

i have listed items on ebay that have varied massivily in price with no mentions on face book

[Carledo]

I am sorry but I think this is non-sense. Such opinions are given all the time on all models of cars, including things like escorts and it doesn't knock their values down.

From memory (I can no longer access the page to provide a link I'm afraid)......
The car made about 11K in the first auction but the buyer refused to pay on the grounds that it was a reshell,
this assertion being based on said Facebook page thread.
It was relisted and this time the final bid was some 2.5K less.

Somehow I doubt the the seller, Lee, will agree that it is nonsense (there is no hyphen in nonsense).




Ian.

i have listed items on ebay that have varied massivily in price with no mentions on face book

A car that is immediately relisted on ebay, for whatever reason, will almost inevitably achieve a lower figure the second time round. It's happened to me on more than one occasion. I can only put it down to potential buyers asking themselves WHY it's been relisted (lets face it, you only have the seller's word for it) and bidding more cautiously as a result.

Not that it's any help to poor Lee who had to take less money for what is, IMO, a very good car, but I reckon the non paying buyer seized on that thoughtless and inaccurate facebook comment as a getout to conceal his real reason for not completing the sale - whatever that may have been! Only a complete MORON would be influenced by a comment from someone he didn't know, about a car the commenter had never even seen in the tin!

To Rob, I would say that 7 grand is far too much to pay for a strip and respray. The guy who owns the Aston I mentioned, owns a body shop that specializes in high end classic paint and body work, it's not often I go there and there's not an E type, Pagoda roof Merc SL, Stag, or similar exotic machinery lurking about. Brian himself is long retired and his son has taken over but with the same enthusiasm and attention to detail of his dad, he is top quality around here and pretty much top price, but even HE would only be looking about £3k for a respray and a bit of remedial cosmetic bodywork. And there are other cheaper guys I know around here who will do an excellent job for a sensible price. Perhaps you just live in the wrong part of the country?

I DO understand your dilemma and sympathize with your physical difficulties, my missus has hypermobility which has led to (currently) 3 prolapsed discs and a torn rotator cuff in her left shoulder. All of which means constant pain and the inability to walk without crutches, but using the crutches has led to the shoulder injury and now she can't use them anymore. Yes, I am hugely fortunate to still be relatively healthy at 65 and to have the facilities and ability to do my own repairs. If I didn't, I certainly wouldn't be able to afford to pay someone to do it for me! I've always had to substitute hard work and enginuity for money cos I've never had much money! But like you, (and massive Kudos, by the way, for driving it despite it's glorious show winning past) I accept the deterioration that comes with actually USING my car, because that's why I built it in the first place and despite all the trials and tribulations i've gone through with it, it still brings this big silly grin to my face, every time I fire it up! And you can't put a price on that!

Steve

[captain_70s]

Please see my post above, Anthony.

Thanks,

Ian.

As is the risk with selling by auction. The car will only ever fetch whatever the current, and limited, clientele are for that particular model within the time frame of the sale. My cars have always been cheaper to buy than the equivalent car in England because there isn't as large a market in Scotland.

Given that a single person suggested it was a reshell and everybody else universally disagreed with him and provided facts as to why they were wrong I reckon the buyer just used it as an excuse to back out of the sale having changed his mind. Why would the buyer mind that the car was a reshell when it was an older restoration using panels from later cars anyway? Surely if he was looking for originality he'd not have bothered with that car in the first place?
Again, the particulars of any one particular sale do not adjust overall values, unless they are record breaking and highly publicised in the classic press. While it is unfortunate that Lee lost money on the eventual sale of the car I'd say it is largely the fault of the initial buyer for backing out for no logical reason.

The classic car community as a whole is drifting far too much into the "how much is it worth?", "is it worth restoring?", "will I make my money back?" mentality which is a grim state of affairs overall unless you happen to have bought a car at the bottom of the market value and are hoping to punt it on for a profit. I've only ever bought and invested in my cars because I like them, financial gain is not one of my concerns, I do all of the work myself as I've been messed around by garages in the past and don't like them bodging my cars and charging £50 an hour for the privilege.

However I must confess I may be biased as I have been largely priced out of classic car ownership over the last few years and it may well be time to throw my hat into the ring and admit that it is a wealthier man's game.

[RobSun]

Yes Steve I do think I live in the wrong area for a fair price bodywork. Talking with the MOT tester last week he told me of an E Type owner just paid £15,000 for a paint job, and a very good reputation restorer has just been paid £16,000 to restore a Golf 1.6SE 1983 one owner. He's not thought to be expensive in this area.
I also know of a Sprint restoration requiring a re shell because it was too far gone, that I'm told on really good authority by a chap who worked at the place who did it, and the MOT tester, cost £50,000 yes I said it right. The owner didn't tell me personally actually how much but told me he could have purchased a house in Lancashire for what it cost him. Later on he had the engine rebuilt, the bill was £5000 and that I know for a fact because I was given the bill by mistake when I went to collect mine. They gave me the correct bill as the ambulance took me away.

[Bish]

It’s all about supply and demand. There aren’t enough buyers out there fighting over - and pushing prices up - of Dolomites , and that’s down to the BL / Triumph Badge not having enough kudos.

At the end of the day, a classic car is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, and the post above just proves that some people have more money than sense! That said, you can spend your money on whatever you like and who are we to judge. But, that sort of money being thrown around doesn’t help those true hobbyist classic car owners who are getting priced out of classic ownership. Those and the people who tell me that they have a couple of cars tucked up for an investment never to be driven - p155 me off to be honest.

[D16PJM]

The reason i started this topic was not that i want to make money on my car but i want to keep it on the road, to do that we would need a certain amount of road worthy cars that mean manufacturers will still have a demand, the ford scene seem to have this which i am linking to value meaning more cars are restored, hence parts demand, manufacturers supply.

a quick look on ebay over the last few months see many being broken which i feel will have a negative effect on not just value but our ability to supply, this club has a great supply of spares but as demand drops is it in the clubs interest to invest in parts that will be sold to less members and at a higher investment

pete

[Standardthread]

The cost of anything, washing machine, car etc. etc. is usually less than the value of its component parts that go to make it, add to that labour, expertise etc..

When it comes to value any value placed on your car it is subjective, it is ‘What it is worth to you?’ To me my home, car etc. etc. are valueless, they are part of my life, but they have a function. To my family, when I’m gone, that WILL be a different situation.

There are a number of ways to look at the value of our cars. An old mechanic where I take my cars for testing once said to me that he didn’t like classic cars in ‘showroom’ condition because that is false and doesn’t show that the car has had a life so long as they are safe. At the time I disagreed with him, now, as I get older I appreciate his point and have come around to his way of thinking.

If you personally want a car just out of the showroom, and obtain premium prices when it is sold, don’t use it, keep it locked away. But it will disintegrate over time. The proof is in the pudding, the paint will oxidise, the bushes etc. will perish. My daughter owns a 1960 Standard 10 Companion, until recently only four known in the world. One was recently found locked away in a showroom in Australia, it had been a dealership demo, a few hundred miles on the clock, but everything had perished! But my daughter her car (daily if she could) and she loves it and the smiles and waves she gets whilst driving it.

My 1300 Dolomite, yes someone else modified it (badly), which I’m slowly correcting. I too have modified it, oil pressure gauge, smaller twin carbs etc. they have a function. But, it is still basically the same functional solid car I was looking for, for which I paid a premium because I thought that jobs I would do had been done, wrong and another story. To me it is a car, not showroom, as we say in Yorkshire “I haven’t got the brass”, and it’s brown, which I may eventually change myself, and, it gets driven winter and summer, but it is solid and I have made sure it is protected underneath.

I have driven Triumphs for over 40 years, I started with a 12/50 Herald. Why did I pay a premium for my Dolomite. Because I was sick of modern electronic crap that kept telling me it was sick, a Fabia. It was the first and only car I have purchased new, I looked after it, but the basis of the car was old, probably older than my daughter’s Standard because the engine they used was a Skoda Estelle, but with ECU etc. fitted. The car wasn’t sick, the ECU thought it was, it started with the temp sensor going, ending up with immobiliser, and other faults flashing up. So it went, now it would be an MOT failure, why, warning light issues. At least with my Dolomite I can fix it, not like the breakdown company who came to ‘fix’ my daughter’s Standard when the clutch seized (it was the slave), because he couldn’t plug it in he put it down to ‘miss fuelled’ and called a recovery vehicle!

To answer the question of value of Dolomites. YOUR CAR is what it is WORTH (not value) to you. If you want one out of the showroom, and have the brass go for it. If you want to own and drive a classic enjoy it and enjoy the response from other road users, see their smiles, waves etc., and possibly envy.

Steve

[RobSun]

Steve you know me and I totally agree with your sentiments.
Whilst mine isn't a daily driver like yours it gets used as you know and I love its originality and that's down to Royston Beasley, who coming up to retirement and wanting only a Dolomite had this one stored away at the garage opposite his BL factory from its manufacture, near the end of production, till he retired in Oct 1982. Its his love of the car, kept and driven until he had to stop driving in his 90s that's the reason its still here in the condition that it is. Then it started winning trophies not because it was perfect, it has knocks and dings, but because of that very originality.

Ive had it now six years, used it shown it, and looked after it the best way I can to keep that originality and I suppose to honour Royston's efforts. But its now starting to take its toll and its started deteriorating. Still trying to keep its originality, a restorer, the one that did the 50K Sprint and the 16K Golf, wouldn't touch the remedial work saying its too original and its how a classic should be and how we want to see them. Leave it until its at the stage it needs a full resto was his advice. I agree whole heartedly with his sentiments on originality but want to preserve it and slow the deterioration not make it into one of those look but don't touch cars. Thats why I took it to Harrogate and got those ridiculous quotes. Too spend the money on a full restoration on one of these cars would be bonkers.

You're very skilled Steve, you mend, fix, weld, make, paint and have the facilities. I'm limited on all those skills together with my back so need to rely on others at times, and its expensive. I know a car is worth only what someone is prepared to pay, but the amount we Triumph Dolomite enthusiastes are prepared to pay means my car will continue to deteriorate possibly until its not worth the financial expenditure of rectification. Not what I want for this car. My agument is, if we were prepared to pay what other marks obtain by their enthusiasts there is a good chance more cars will survive. I may be that I will be forced to sell it in the future to someone with the ability to do the work, but I loose my car.

So I continue to look for someone who may be able to do the work, old school style, at a price I can afford and makes economical sense, to keep the old girl going. As to leaving it to my kids, frankly they are not interested, and as for them inheriting money off it, what at Dolomite values.

[Standardthread]

Bob,
email sent.
Steve