Toledo track day car.

[bodgerben]

Seems a bit strange starting a 'restoration project' with a 26K mile Toledo.

I'll be updating http://www.bodgerben.com/toledo.htm as I go along, but at the moment she's a very fine car awaiting a bit of get up and go.
The 26K mile running gear is about to be replaced with an (almost) zero mileage running gear. She has a very fine list of new parts to be fettled and fitted :
New - almost everything, in fact the second hand bits are gearbox case, axle case and half shafts.... that's about it.

The bodywork needs a bit of sorting - as you'd expect from a 36 year old car there's a few blisters and dried out underseal - that will be fixed first before she dissolves in front of me (the old rust proofing is not up to modern standards).

Caroline's track day car is almost complete http://www.bodgerben.com/Scimitar.htm (a Supercharger is next- a 400 bhp SE6 should be fun) after that we'll have a bit of time to get my car sorted.

[Nathan Mwk 627G]

such a shame to mess with such a near concours rare car, must be another toledo out there to tare apart but as benny says its yours, hope the conversion goes well!!

[alolympic]

Is this Janette and Dannys car?? Really.
You're going to modify that!!!
Now, I have never said this before, because the owner of a car has the right to do what they want, and I certainly do with my car, BUT
WHAT!?
I am not admiring your plan.......

[Purplebargeken]

Pains me to say it but I tend to agree with the comments as above, however, it is your car to do with what you want. Shame to mess about with it though, probably other examples that would have sufficed instead, but it is indeed your car.

Oh well.

[David6214]

A very wise person who used to frequent this forum a lot told me that if you are going to do anything 'serious' with your car, start with the very best most solid example you can find....

[bodgerben]

Nice to hear the comments - it shows you lot care about keeping the good OHV cars as they are.

The modifications will be almost entirely reversable (rolled rear arches - perhaps not)- and I don't intend selling the existing running gear - they have little value outside of the car and I may want to bolt it back in if I find a better one
The dash etc won't be mucked about with (an all in one Stack unit will replace the speedo) - and the seats will be stored.
Obviously the wheels will be different and so will the exhaust - but she'll be a sleeper.
A completely new set of running gear will be bolted in place, not one nut and bolt of the OHV running gear will be used.

Obviously I don't agree with the - it's an immaculate example don't touch it - I think it's the best example I could get and I'm going to use it, but instead of restoring my old 2 door I've now got a much nicer example - which is how at least one other modified Toledo started out
She's not going to be hacked - any wiring changes will be with a new custom loom.
There's a few custom Toledo's out there - this will be a plain Sprint running gear Toledo - a proper Toledo TS. No slammed look here (OK she'll roll a bit - but at least I'll be able to drive over speed bumps without catching the exhaust.
If I wanted to create a custom Toledo with modern parts - I would have used my old 46k mile one. This one is just getting a bit of a tune up. If I get bored of the Sprint lump I may put a modern engine in - but I have a new Sprint lump.

I'm going to potter about in her as she is for this year - so she may get a reprieve (or I may find the 100mile example...)

[Nathan Mwk 627G]

this will be a plain Sprint running gear Toledo -

Now im not picking on you as this is your thread, as iv already said, it would be a shame but its your car, you bought it when others had the chance etc etc

But the one thing i cant get my head round is when people buy a small engined Triumph and then want to "Sprint it" if you want something with a the running gear and speed of a Dolomite sprint why not go out and buy a Dolomite sprint??

while there are so many sprints about its something i dont and never will understand!!

Like iv stated im not having ago at yourself personally, just something i dont understand!!

Nathan

[DoloWIGHTY]

- a proper Toledo TS.

Sorry don't understand that statement. The TS was a meant to be a Toledo 2 door with a Spitfire engine in it.

[mbellinger]

I can see both sides here, and have sympathies with both.

My view for what it is worth, is that on an exceptionally original low mileage car, if you want to modify it, go ahead and do so. Just try and keep the modifications easily reversed, and keep the bits you remove for possible re-fitment later. Ben is doing this, and thus, on balance I have no issue with his intentions.

My Redtop Toledo was made out of a one owner 18,000 mile example - I have the pictures in the history file to prove it. It is a great source of regret to me that all the old running gear got seperated from the car and sold (for bugger all no doubt). The car still has its original interior though, and externally at least, is little modified.

Had I bought the sapphire blue car in question, I almost certainly would not have modified it, but that is probably partly because I already have a (highly) modified one. My thinking also is that there are far less really nice Toledo's around now; even compared to when my conversion was started (six years ago), so when one of this quality comes up, it probably should be preserved. However, as I said earlier, I have total empathy with the approach Ben is taking.

The bit I too (like Nathan) do not get, is why folk put Sprint engines in a Tolly. If you want a Sprint, buy a Sprint. If you want to make a fast Toledo, do something different, like Lewis' Dad's V8, or mine.

That said, Ben has a brand new Sprint engine knocking about, and the temptation to use it would, under the circumstances be difficult to resist.

Each to their own.....

[bodgerben]

Nathan that is a very good question - if you want a Sprint why not go and buy one. If I wanted a Sprint I certainly would.

As for the "Sprint it" of the other small Triumph models - it depends what is available. I certainly would not buy an immaculate 1500 or 1850 and Sprint it - I'd buy the immaculate Sprint. But if you already have a Sprint which has had a ding - and you don't want to buy another car - Sprint'ing a 1500 with your bits is an option - I'd certainly do that - I have for a couple of people in the past rather than have their cars written off. Or even if your Sprint is a bit scabby a good OHV car can save it.

I was all set for getting my 2 door dipped and painted - then this cropped up, so I did the decent thing and bought it. Saved me one heck of a lot of time.

I could use this stuff in a Sprint, been there done that, a Robin Hood - the wife won't let me (I'm a rubbish driver so would wreck me and the car) or a two door - I had a good shell which I was going to use, then this turned up...now I have a better two door. So at least one shell is saved

If I get bored with the Sprint lump I can supercharge it or bin it and put a new engine in there, the main thing is keeping it looking standard - it's a nice little 1300. But 1300's are not my thing, Sprint lumps are. Or V8's but I don;t think I'd get a supercharged 1UZFE in without some major bodywork mods - then again....

Both cars will be at the Cranleigh Classic car show on Sunday - Caroline's 1UZFE Scimitar and the snail.

Anway, it's mine, it getting it's running gear replaced and I intend having some fun with it

A proper Toledo TS would have 125 bhp at the wheels, not a Spitfire engine.

[alolympic]

Having read your latest posts on this Ben I think I should offer an apology.
It is clear that you are not approaching the conversion with haste and am sure you will do it properly, either way, my opinion should be kept to myself.
You were the man to stump up the cash for the car so it's future is purely your choice.
Modifying a car so that you end up using it more is probably a better thing for the club longer term than maintaining a musuem piece. A whole new group of people could become interested in the cars if they see the potential that can be realised.
As for people saying if you want a Sprint, buy a Sprint, this is missing the point too. You are going to build a car that logically BL should have done themselves for a start. A 2 door offering would have competed much more squarely with offerings from the blue oval, and BMW amongst others. You clearly don't want another Dolly Sprint otherwise you would have gone that route - it would be far easier and cheaper!
Good luck with the project. I will watch with interest.....

[JPB]

Modifying a car so that you end up using it more is probably a better thing for the club longer term than maintaining a musuem piece. A whole new group of people could become interested in the cars if they see the potential that can be realised.

I've avoided commenting on this so far, but that pretty much sums up how I see it too.
I know that I'm not one for modifying massively, but with an 1850 as a daily car there's little need to do so. However, I'd start by finding the best shell I could get my hands on if I did want to build a one-off with a modified sort of vibe to it and, as Bodgerben is doing with his other car, I'd keep my current Dolomite just as is, 'cos I like that car that way.

But see if I ever get around to buying a bare 2-door shell and the remains of a scrapped TVR.......

[sprint95m]

Good luck with your project Ben.

[jeroensprint]

One of the BCCP racecars was build from a brand new shell what also could make a very nice street car. The hardest part was cutting out the rear wheelarches to fit the larger wheels and have the wing extensions fitted.

BUT, when having/building a decent competitioncar it is the best to have the most solid shell and that are most of the time nice original cars. Ford escorts have the same issue with the 2 door shells.

As long as the concept stay's the same and you are using Triumph parts no car is lost so build it Ben the way you like.

Jeroen

[Purplebargeken]

Yes, good luck with it. Glad you are saving the parts for it to go back to spec if needed.