The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

Hi everyone. I have oil / grease on my rear right brake shoes. Last year I replaced the inner oil seal with a rimmers part and fully cleaned everything. I have only done 300 miles since, but the oil / grease is back. I can see oil in the screw threads for the brake drum retaining screws. I seem to remember checking the half shaft for scoring / damage, but found only a polished area where the original leather seal sealed.
Can anyone advise me which is the best axle (inner) oil seal to fit and whether it should be positioned so it seals on a fresh part of the half shaft. Any one know where in Coventry / Warwick I could get the outer hub seal removed (I can take the hub / half shaft assy to them). Thanks everyone.
John

This is a common problem on cars older than ours! I doubt if the originals are leather but it will be to do with the surface that the seal runs onto. You can use a metal based filler and sand until smooth. The other thing to note is that seals do need time to settle , especially if the car has stood. I know several of our old cars (some quite modern too) will leak until been used for a week, then not a drop!

Common problem, especially when racing. Don't use the standard oil seals - replace with the gearbox nose seal (141756). That will fix the problem for you.

Geoff

slant4 wrote:...it will be to do with the surface that the seal runs onto. You can use a metal based filler.....

Or you could make a lasting repair with a Chicago Rawhide Speedi-Sleeve; job done! Those things even keep Aisin-Warner transmission seals drip-free against the prop nose in Volvos of a certain age.

I can push the hub off the halfshaft for you, I'm in Coventry.

PM me if required

The inner seal is easily replaced with no special tools required just undo the hub bolts and the drive shaft and hub come out together, which gives you access to the offending seal (the large outer seal that does require full strip down is generally fine).

Thanks everyone, the advice much appreciated. I think I will give the gear box seal a try as I don't really want to start filling and sanding yet. The seal that is now leaking is a modern one. The one replaced last year was a leather one that had only been in for 6000 miles /7 years.
The shafts have only done 140000 odd miles !! (Although my Sprint has had more axle rebuilds / replacements than brake pads in my 20 years of ownership).

An ideal candidate for the Speedi sleeves then and I have no connection to Chicago Rawhide, other than as a very satisfied customer with several cars behind me that became drip-free thanks to their product.

I thought I'd re-open this to ask about my current experience with my Sprint.

Per other recent threads I've been rebuilding the front suspension lately but this only came about when I was having a look around after replacing the rear axle seals. The car has been a long time off the road related to getting that job done and then another long period between replacing those axle seals and replacing the front suspension bushes recently.

So the point is it has stood a while with those new axle seals not doing anything. I drove it for the first time in ages today. It has other issues - some to do with it and some to do with me. The tracking needs doing. It needs a tune I'm quite sure. It ran OK but was noisy - partly because it is and partly because there is a mystery vibration. See other thread about sub frames but basically I think i know what that is.

But the worst of it is that there was a little oil on the bottom of the backplate when checking yesterday. I was hoping - grabbing at straws really - that this was just a remnant. After driving it today though it feels slightly oily again suggesting it still has an oil leak.

It just never ends. I'm about ready to take it to a crusher.

The only hope is that seals have to bed in and that because it has been standing this won't have happened; per the comment above.

Is this actually true though? The new seals went in ok and the half shafts looked fine by the way

m

I have a Sprint that regularly sits for extended periods between bursts of use.
I have never had an axle leak bar the odd drip from the pinion nose seal that's been there for 30 years.

The problem with new oil "seals" is they are often made of inferior rubber or have incorrect spring tensions.

I suspect you have fitted new seals but sadly not very good quality ones if they are leaking. They dont bed in...they either
seal or they dont. The rubber you have I suspect is not up to the nasty stuff you get in EP90 axle oil.

Get some OE payen seals NOS from somewhere and you will do better.

Fitchetts are better at OE as are Paddocks. Find out what they sell for TR4's non IRS, which should be pretty similar.

Jonners

The ones I got were from Rimmers.

What are "OE payen seals NOS" please ?

thks

Sorry...

OE = original equipment
NOS = new old stock ie old parts that are still unused and sat ideally on dry shelves in decent packaging. There is a guy in cyprus who does a good line in these type of oil seals. Ive had a couple of Payen crank rears off him now.

Payen = seal and gasket manufacture of the stuff that was used in the factory when building them.

I suspect Rimmers sold you "remanufactured" stuff from whatever 3rd world (Turkish Chinese or Indian) supplier was in favour at the time
and why I almost never buy anything from them.

Jonners

As Geoff says, higher up in this thread, use the seal intended for the input shaft of a Sprint Gearbox, part number 141756. I had this issue with the Sprint axle in the Carledo, fitted the gearbox seal (which is marginally tighter on the shaft) and have had no trace of leakage since. Took less than an hour to change too! Fitchetts supplied the seal I used.

Steve

OK gents thanks for the info.

Various points then :

1. When we talk about part 141756 is that to replace the inner seal or the outer seal?
2. How do these seals work anyway? The oil is in the diff and the inner seal stops it getting into the axle tube? What's the outer seal for in that case? A kind of backstop? My point being surely in the case of a leak at the brake backplate it is the outer seal that is leaking? Or arguably both.
3. Less than an hour to change?????? When I did this before and removed the halfshafts etc I had to strip the whole thing to bits starting with the brakes. But I did do both inner and outer seals. So, are you saying the half shaft comes out as one and it is the inner seal that is quickly replaced? If so I refer you to the previous point re outer seal...
4. Do you have contact details for the guy in Cyprus?
5. Take your point about Rimmers at least lately. Where do you guys generally get all your parts from? Rimmers is convenient being able to order online from overseas

Regards

olr159w wrote:OK gents thanks for the info.

Various points then :

1. When we talk about part 141756 is that to replace the inner seal or the outer seal?
2. How do these seals work anyway? The oil is in the diff and the inner seal stops it getting into the axle tube? What's the outer seal for in that case? A kind of backstop? My point being surely in the case of a leak at the brake backplate it is the outer seal that is leaking? Or arguably both.
3. Less than an hour to change?????? When I did this before and removed the halfshafts etc I had to strip the whole thing to bits starting with the brakes. But I did do both inner and outer seals. So, are you saying the half shaft comes out as one and it is the inner seal that is quickly replaced? If so I refer you to the previous point re outer seal...
4. Do you have contact details for the guy in Cyprus?
5. Take your point about Rimmers at least lately. Where do you guys generally get all your parts from? Rimmers is convenient being able to order online from overseas

Regards

1) 141756 is to replace the inner seal.

2) the inner seal is to keep the diff oil in the case, the bearing is lubricated with grease and the outer seal is to keep the grease in the bearing. It does not, however, stop oil that has got past the inner seal getting into the bearing, then out through the drum screw holes (my car turned out to have only one drum screw, which made the leak significantly worse)

3)Definitely, less than an hour if only changing the inner seal, remove wheel and drum, knock back locktabs and undo bolts securing bearing housing to axle case, pull out halfshaft leaving brakes in place, flick out old seal and tap in new one then reassemble in reverse order. Don't forget to top up axle oil and regrease bearing! Outer seals in and of themselves virtually never fail, people change them because they APPEAR to have failed for just the reasons you describe.

Just re-read this and it sounds a bit abrupt - didn't mean it that way!


Steve