Cost effective 1300 upgrades

[Hoops]

What are the easiest cost effective upgrades for a Toledo 1300 engine.

I gather that they were around 58bhp out of the factory and that there is quite a lot of tuning bits that can be done.

Now to a novice like me, i think a separate engine re-build is a bit too much at the moment, but apart from the usual Iginition, Timing, Oil change etc then the costly bits like 4-2-1 Exhausts, Carb upgrades (twin HS4's/Single HS6 or single Webber) is there any other things i can do while the car is still being used?

Also any decent starter books to look at?

Or the big question, is it cheaper just to stick something like a TR7 engine in (over the 16v Sprint as they are a lot cheaper and more torqey) Will the 5-Speed TR7 box fit in? I doubt it as i cant remember seeing it done...
EDIT, seems that the 5-speed box is a lot of work.

Cheers, Rob

[Jon Tilson]

The trick is in the use of the term cost effective....

If your car is in sellable condition then the cost effective route to more ooomph is to flog it. Lots of people like the "low rent" models as they are and decent ones get rarer all the time. They are useful for young ones with insurance issues as a way into the dolly scene. If we all fit them with Sprint running gear then where will they start?

Then get yourself a hl model of some sort with a duff engine and stick the TR7 lump in that. Its least work to start with an 1850 cos then you can reuse the rest of the running gear, but too few 1850's are actually in bad running nick when you get them home.
Most of them are just out of tune.

With 1500hl's most of them need bottom end rebuilds unless owned by the serious pro's on this forum...your Richard Old and Tin weevils etc. who know how to drive them...no feet resting on the clutch and no exceeding 4k rpm etc.

The downside of concerting them is they need subframe exhaust and box changed as well and they dont have tinted glass either.

Its your funeral....

(tongue only slightly in cheek throughout)


Jonners

[Hoops]

Cheers

I would love a 1850HL but there are none about atm, but lots of Toledo's and 1500's. (and all the 1850's seem to be auto's)

I also like the 1300's as you can get up to 40mpg, rather than in the low 20's with the Sprint, or high 20's for the TR7. Of course a decent TR7 engine apparently can do 30-35mpg, and having a lot more torque means you would not have to thrash it.

[DoloWIGHTY2]

...........just to add....

Any modifications to the cars original spec that are not declared to your insurer will invalidate your policy.

So might be worth getting a quote before you go ahead with proposed changes?

[Hoops]

Yes i was aware of that, i would obviously get a revised quote before i made any changes

[slant4]

I think you also need to think about this. Power to weight ratio! These cars weigh c 3/4 ton. The new astra weights a ton more starting at about 87hp!

[xsquared_uk]

Valve clearances, points gap, new plugs correctly gapped, setting timing, setting mixture, decent HT leads and dizzy cap - all the above has made mine a lot faster and smoother - if I'd taken the car to a garage instead and they'd told me they'd fitted a 1500 engine I probably would have believed them, it's that much improved in terms of performance.

[triple tango]

Tried & tested 1300 mods;
1500 twin SU's
1500 exhaust
1500 radiator
electric fan
1500/1850 diff
Car will be transformed, faster reving & more economical than a 1500.

Whats all this ill informed bollox about Sprints? Have you ever driven a decent one?
A Sprint will easily do 30-35mpg , & as for a TR7 being superior, you are joking!

[Aar0sc]

Tried & tested 1300 mods;
1500 twin SU's
1500 exhaust
1500 radiator
electric fan
1500/1850 diff
Car will be transformed, faster reving & more economical than a 1500.

Go the whole hog and fit a 1500 engine! Then it (could ) sound a bit like this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HC2qrnOl4I

[triple tango]

I had both a 1300 modified in this way (thanks to Jods recomendations) & a superb standard 1500 (that I sold later to Lewis). I owned them at the same time so could drive them" back to back"
The 1300 was far superior to drive in every respect, Period!

The reason BL deliberately detuned the 1300 at the factory was because it made the 1500 look silly and nobody would have bought the inferior 1500 when the 1300 was so sweet.
But they needed a 1500 in the range so they could compete with 1300 & 1600 Escorts/ Cortinas 1300/1500 Avengers etc. So BL soldered on with an engine stretched beyond its capabilitys because the marketing boys needed a 1500.

[Hoops]

Tried & tested 1300 mods;
1500 twin SU's
1500 exhaust
1500 radiator
electric fan
1500/1850 diff
Car will be transformed, faster reving & more economical than a 1500.

Whats all this ill informed bollox about Sprints? Have you ever driven a decent one?
A Sprint will easily do 30-35mpg , & as for a TR7 being superior, you are joking!

Was that aimed at me? my sprint was doing 23mpg on average, it was not in the best tune, but it ran really well. The TR7 engine was knackered, but should do around 30mpg at least. I found even though the TR7 engine had no top end, there seemed to be more torque than the Sprint, driving around town at 30 in 4th for example. It was an easier more relaxed drive.

And thanks chaps, lots to think about.I know its not the best idea to make a decision now, but a mate has a Weber 45 that could be arranged. Could be interesting!

[Hoops]

Whats the deal with unleaded? We ran my gf's old 13/60 on super unleaded and there were no issues, do you really need to use addative? Looking at a 1977 Dolomite 1300 as well, i guess the later ones are not much different to the Early Toledo 1300's engine wise (I know the gearbox is different)

[marty dolomite]

super unleaded is a higher octane fuel so you dont need a additive with that but you do with regular unleaded.

[DoloWIGHTY2]

You will of course need to add a Lead Substitute additive .

[Jon Tilson]

In my fleet at present we have a 1300 with 3.89 diff, no overdrive and a spitfire twin carbs and 1500 exhaust setup.
We also have a trick cam'ed sprint on SU's but with needles to suite, an early 1850 with 3 rail o/d box, 3.63 diff and a TR7 lump on std HS6's. Recently Ive had a decent 1850HL with o/d and a single rail box and Ive had the odd standard sprint as well.

I've also got a 1500 spit which I dearly love and have done about 100k miles in in the last 30 years or so. Some of the above dollies I've had for abot 25 years, though maybe not in there current form

So given that mish mash if I were to build one again from scratch what would I do?

I'd put an 8 valve TR7 engine with a sprint drive line from the sub frame back.

While I like the sprint, the valve gear is too noisy, the extra oomph is noticeable, but in the road how often do you really need it and the sprint is less reliable somehow. Its always needing attention to the odd leak from plug tubes, rocker cover, manifold gasket or wherever else it feels like leaking and the exhaust manifold downpipe flange is a joke quite honestly.

The TR7 would have none of those faults, but it would pull the 3.45 stronger diff and sprint box would last forever. Mine has eaten 3 diffs and 3 boxes from the lower order...

I might try a 5 speed TR7 box if I could work out how to do the clutch hydraulics and then the other major source of unreliability in the o/d stick gubbins would be done away with too.

I woudn't bother with an ohv of any sort now. The time I wasted getting the 1300 to run half sensibly is time down the toilet. At its best its still well below an ordinary 1850 in every area. Its slower and either the same or less economical. The only reason for doing it is young driver insurance and road tax. My 1850 is tax free so its a no brainer.

Jonners