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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:08 am 
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Upper UJ seized?

Rack bar worn or bent? This is the reason 90% of core I take in for reconditioning is rejected; we've already reached the point where rack bars are now having to be straightened more often than not and the reason the costs have recently risen


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:55 am 
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Upper UJ seized?

Rack bar worn or bent? This is the reason 90% of core I take in for reconditioning is rejected; we've already reached the point where rack bars are now having to be straightened more often than not and the reason the costs have recently risen
I doubt it's the upper UJ, a) it's not notchy enough and b) it's a new repro one from Fitchetts. How would I know if it was the rack bar?

Think my first port of call is to jack it up, get the wheels off and disconnect the TREs then check the free movement of the hubs on the balljoints. That will at least divide it up into 3 sections that can be eliminated individually.

Steve

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'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:44 am 
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The reconditioners visually inspect for wear and if all is seemingly good they then check for straightness on a light box; both involve the rack being dismantled.


Have you used two solid mounts? It might be a combination of 500 miles on Shropshire's roads and not allowing enough 'give'...
https://forum.triumphdolomite.co.uk/vie ... ie#p310244


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:25 am 
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I had some brand new upper suspension ball joints a few years ago that were virtually seized straight out of the packet, I spotted this during assembly so didn't fit them so can't say whether they would have caused this problem, but worth a look.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:38 am 
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Quote:
The reconditioners visually inspect for wear and if all is seemingly good they then check for straightness on a light box; both involve the rack being dismantled.


Have you used two solid mounts? It might be a combination of 500 miles on Shropshire's roads and not allowing enough 'give'...
https://forum.triumphdolomite.co.uk/vie ... ie#p310244
I have used 2 solid mounts, of the old Jigsaw variety. Something else Shaun said in that post (which I contributed to, should have remembered this) has struck a chord. he mentions a rubber bung or plug which needs removing to stop the rack binding on cars fitted with solid mounts. Now I think this post happened before I fitted this rack to the car, but don't remember checking for the plug.

However I fitted an identical pair to the Carledo many years earlier without any problems at all, so may have got lucky with that car not having a plug (which is apparently quite common) or perhaps the Jigsaw type mounts dont foul the bung (possible, they aren't as wide as Shaun's) in which case I have a different problem!

But I think it behooves me to check for the presence of that bung, it may be a quick fix as the near vertical Vauxhall engine block leaves both rack mounts in clear air, removing the rack entirely however needs a big engine lift of 5-6 inches, not sure it will even GO that high now it's all fitted up.

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:28 am 
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If I had to guess, i'd say one or more of the (new) balljoints is partially seized as the further you turn it, the stiffer it gets. I will need to investigate this, it didn't seem to be noticeable when the car was up on stands. Suggestions anyone?

Steve
Quote:

Think my first port of call is to jack it up, get the wheels off and disconnect the TREs then check the free movement of the hubs on the balljoints. That will at least divide it up into 3 sections that can be eliminated individually.

Steve
Free hanging is something different than on it's wheels. My guess is a binding rack. Some wear in the middle, adjust the play and too tight at the ends now.

Jeroen

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:02 am 
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Quote:
Some wear in the middle, adjust the play and too tight at the ends now.
...and that my friends is what a cheap reconditioned rack consists of and what 'our' current reconditioners refuse to do.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:52 am 
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I read Shaun’s original response which included a picture of this rubber bung.

Does anybody have a picture of it ?

Thanks, Richard


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:09 pm 
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If the bung were present with solid mounts, OE was nylon rather than rubber, the rack would likely lock solid.

Most racks have the hole where it once sat taped over with insulating tape.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:24 pm 
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Quote:

Free hanging is something different than on it's wheels. My guess is a binding rack. Some wear in the middle, adjust the play and too tight at the ends now.

Jeroen
well yes, I do know that free hanging is a different proposition to driving! In this instance, i'd be putting my stands under the outer ends of the TCAs for testing purposes in order to simulate as closely as possible the position of everything when loaded up on the ground. Which I didn't do when building it up as there wasn't any perceived need.

I guess i'm paying now for my habit of using bits from my extensive stock of used stuff. I can't remember where this particular rack came from, it wasn't the one from the car (which was a "quick rack" that I didn't want on a car SWMBO would possibly drive) so I just pulled this one from stock, nicely painted in silver and with new boots on, it looked and felt fine in my hands with just the right amount of stiffness in the track rod balljoints and no perceptible play. So I threw it on and forgot about it. If it HAS been adjusted in the fashion you describe, it wasn't by ME, I know better! Nor do I know of any pro or even semi-pro rack builder who paints them any colour but black, so where the silver came from is anyones guess.

I should say that it has been like this effectively since built. I didn't really notice when manoevering it round the garage and drive, nor on the first few hundred yard drive up the road and back. But since then and on any run and at any speed (possibly worse when going faster) it's pretty hard to miss!

It's not so bad as to be undriveable once you get used to it. But it certainly doesn't make the experience pleasurable, it's gotta be sorted! But it may have to wait till i've got some undercover space available. I'm not enjoying being outside in this weather!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:25 pm 
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This is a another spare rack that I have, which, at 3.25 turns, is an "intermediate" one (correct me if i'm wrong Alun, the stocker is 3.5 turns and the "quick" is 2.75) The hole was wrapped in insulating tape and no bung present. As you can clearly see, the hole is less than 0.5" from the stop.


Image

This is the rack on my car with the Jigsaw solid mounts fitted. What is immediately obvious is that the presence or absence of the bung is completely irrelevant as the mount is not close enough to the bung hole to cause a problem. Haven't measured the gap to the stop from the mount but must be over 1", I can get my thick forefinger in it and wiggle it about!


Image

That's one possibilty eliminated! Onwards and upwards!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:28 pm 
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A stock rack is 3.75 turns lock to lock


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:42 pm 
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Like Tony Burd I have come across what look like almost new upper suspension ball joints that are virtually seized so I would be checking them first.

When it comes nylon bung part number 145108 it is described as a damper so at some point it was decided that some damping was needed and this is done away with if the rack is solidly mounted. It is still possible to fit the damper if the rack is poly mounted.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:52 pm 
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Quote:
Like Tony Burd I have come across what look like almost new upper suspension ball joints that are virtually seized so I would be checking them first.

When it comes nylon bung part number 145108 it is described as a damper so at some point it was decided that some damping was needed and this is done away with if the rack is solidly mounted. It is still possible to fit the damper if the rack is poly mounted.
Yes it can be there even with the solid mounts. The damper/nylon part does stick slightly above the surface of the tube. When fitting solid clamps this nylon part is pushed flush with the tube, nowhere to go, and can push on the inside on the shaft make it move heavier or not move at all. It depends on how much wear this nylon part has and howmuch it's pushed inside. When it does push the internals you can even sand some off the nylon part so it does protrude the tube less just touching the inner shaft.

Jeroen

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:15 pm 
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Pretty sure my next task is to check all the balljoints for freedom of movement. If only because it's easier that way!

Changing out the rack will be a last resort, not only because it's the most difficult job, but because, believe it or not, I don't actually HAVE another usable standard rack in stock, only that intermediate and a couple of quick racks. So i'd have to spend money, just about everythig else I could need I can pull from my own stock.

Steve

PS Just out of interest, how much IS a club recon stock rack these days?

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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