The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

Hi all
Thinking of getting a new rad for my sprint. Looking for a rad that fits the standard brackets but with the best possible uprated core to improve cooling.

Any recomendations?
Cost??
Cheers all.
John

http://www.alicool.co.uk/rad-triumph.html

Tony

Alicool won’t provide any information on their radiator so it would seem to be an un-engineered copy using different material and a standard aluminium core; they can’t even disclose its capacity.

GAT radiators in Brierley Hill provide a higher capacity core recondition using brass and copper materials as standard for about 2/3 the cost of the Alicool unit. They retain the standard brackets and side tanks.

xvivalve wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:00 am Alicool won’t provide any information on their radiator so it would seem to be an un-engineered copy using different material and a standard aluminium core; they can’t even disclose its capacity.

GAT radiators in Brierley Hill provide a higher capacity core recondition using brass and copper materials as standard for about 2/3 the cost of the Alicool unit. They retain the standard brackets and side tanks.

Will changing the radiator from original not affect the running of the Sprint (new to this but went through my ears), was there any mileage in the fact that Sprint's not running at the correct temp don't run as smoothly.

RSi wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:03 pm
Will changing the radiator from original not affect the running of the Sprint (new to this but went through my ears), was there any mileage in the fact that Sprint's not running at the correct temp don't run as smoothly.

Frankly, most radiators are too big for the car's needs, to allow for exceptional circumstances, this is why they have thermostats.

However changes in fuel and cooling technology since the engine was designed, along with tuning, means the original 73 spec is mostly redundant and many cars, even standard, well maintained ones have been having overheating problems in the last couple of hot summers, exacerbated by fuel vaporisation caused by ethanol added fuel (which is not actually a cooling system "fault" as such, but encourages one to try and make a cooler running engine) It's also clear that quite a few folk have been sold radiators as Sprint that were actually the thinner, lower vane count, lower capacity 1850 version which superficially looks the same.

I too am not convinced by the expensive bling that is the Alicool radiator. My experience with them suggests that it is, at best, as good as a reasonable condition standard one. It's certainly no improvement. Just making it out of ally doesn't make it automaticlly better, quite the reverse, copper and brass are better conductors of heat, the only reason ally radiators now dominate the market is the usual one, COST!

If I was looking for a good radiator to use in a standard or tuned Slant engined car, i'd be looking at the GAT one recommended by Alun or reasonable facsimile thereof!

Steve

PS, I'm a big fan of the Saab 9-3 Turbo rad myself, can be got from ebay for as little as £50 and does the job.....but the OP specified "original mounts" so that's out!

Carledo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:56 pm
I too am not convinced by the expensive bling that is the Alicool radiator. My experience with them suggests that it is, at best, as good as a reasonable condition standard one. It's certainly no improvement. Just making it out of ally doesn't make it automaticlly better, quite the reverse, copper and brass are better conductors of heat, the only reason ally radiators now dominate the market is the usual one, COST!

If I was looking for a good radiator to use in a standard or tuned Slant engined car, i'd be looking at the GAT one recommended by Alun or reasonable facsimile thereof!

Steve

I had my 1850 rad recored by an excellent radiator shop in Glasgow and the guy who runs the place is also no fan of aluminium radiators. As Steve said, copper and brass conduct heat better, and the guy said that if the rad suffers minor damage a copper/brass one can be easily repaired, whereas repairs to aluminium rads frequently fail.

Fit a header tank

RSi wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:03 pm

xvivalve wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:00 am Alicool won’t provide any information on their radiator so it would seem to be an un-engineered copy using different material and a standard aluminium core; they can’t even disclose its capacity.

GAT radiators in Brierley Hill provide a higher capacity core recondition using brass and copper materials as standard for about 2/3 the cost of the Alicool unit. They retain the standard brackets and side tanks.

Will changing the radiator from original not affect the running of the Sprint (new to this but went through my ears), was there any mileage in the fact that Sprint's not running at the correct temp don't run as smoothly.

Murdo, all this discussion about radiators is interesting perhaps but rather irrelevant if the original "expansion" bottle is retained,
for this bottle is the weakest link in the cooling system.

Cooling systems normally either use an expansion tank or (from the 70s it has become normal practise to employ) a header tank,
Dolomites have neither (in fact there were a few BL cars that didn't).

To improve a Dolomite's cooling system the first thing to do is to fit a header tank.



Ian.

Carledo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:56 pm I too am not convinced by the expensive bling that is the Alicool radiator. My experience with them suggests that it is, at best, as good as a reasonable condition standard one. It's certainly no improvement. Just making it out of ally doesn't make it automaticlly better, quite the reverse, copper and brass are better conductors of heat, the only reason ally radiators now dominate the market is the usual one, COST!

If I was looking for a good radiator to use in a standard or tuned Slant engined car, i'd be looking at the GAT one recommended by Alun or reasonable facsimile thereof!

Steve

PS, I'm a big fan of the Saab 9-3 Turbo rad myself, can be got from ebay for as little as £50 and does the job.....but the OP specified "original mounts" so that's out!

Is your post not contradictory Steve?
You're not a fan of alloy radiators, yet are a "big fan" of the alloy Saab radiators?


Ian.

sprint95m wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:23 pm
Is your post not contradictory Steve?
You're not a fan of alloy radiators, yet are a "big fan" of the alloy Saab radiators?
Ian.

Not what I said Ian! I said i'm not convinced about the Alicool rad - and i'm not! It seems to me to be overpriced bling for suckers, certainly not worth the asking price more than 5 times as much as the Saab rad which will do as good or better job of cooling a slant and 50% more than the GAT uprated rad which WILL do a better job than a standard rad! Also, you can get a Saab rad from any half decent motor factors within a day at most!

Ally rads are a fact of life, they are here to stay, the bean counters have once again trumped the engineers. I don't have to like it, but I can't fix it, so I'll have to live with it. But the whole POINT of using ally instead of brass and/or copper is that it's CHEAPER! So why is the Alicool rad more expensive than the traditionally constructed GAT one?

Steve

The price comparison is surely misleading?

A Saab spec. radiator is a little under £100 plus VAT wholesale.
You need to factor in the cost of bespoke hoses.


Having done this myself, I don't think a Saab radiator is any better on a Dolomite.
The thing that is essential is to employ a header tank.



You can possibly answer this Steve, but aren't the alloy radiators longer lasting?
12 or 14 year old vehicles are common now. Many still have their original radiators?


thanks,

Ian.

sprint95m wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:13 am The price comparison is surely misleading?

A Saab spec. radiator is a little under £100 plus VAT wholesale.
You need to factor in the cost of bespoke hoses.


Having done this myself, I don't think a Saab radiator is any better on a Dolomite.
The thing that is essential is to employ a header tank.



You can possibly answer this Steve, but aren't the alloy radiators longer lasting?
12 or 14 year old vehicles are common now. Many still have their original radiators?
thanks,

Ian.

I paid £58 including VAT and free delivery for a Saab 9-3 AUTOMATIC rad (with trans oil cooler) from eurocarpartsonline about a year ago. It was on special offer at the time but i'm sure similar bargains are available with careful shopping! The only hose you need to mess with is the rad bleed hose on the o/s top of the rad.

I'm aware you've gone the Saab rad route yourself and I agree, there's not much to choose between it and the original in terms of efficiency. But the Saab rad works nicely with my 140 horse Vauxhall engine too and I expect it to cope with the 147 horse Omega lump with equal aplomb. The thermostat means it'll never run cold, so it's hard to say if one is better than another. What I will note is that it takes more than 10 mins sat in traffic to take the Carledo's temperature from normal to the 2/3 guage reading (95 degrees c) that engages the fan, but only 3 minutes with the (Saab factory) fan engaged to drop the 10 degrees necessary for disengagement. And this is not a new radiator, but a second hand one from a scrap car. It also copes admirably with flat out trackday work where the engine is almost constanly over 4000rpm and often over 6000, yet the temp guage never lifts above normal.

I agree that a header tank is a worthwhile improvement to the slant's cooling system. I never liked that stupid overflow bottle that could mislead you into thinking all was well when the engine was half empty.

As far as longer life in ally rads goes, I would say not, or at least not significantly. I'm inclined to think a well maintained brass/copper rad will last longer than an ally one, I frequently come across barn find cars where the old rad is still viable at 40 plus years where ally ones tend to disintegrate from standing. But I have no firm evidence either way, just a gut feeling, modern cooling systems and the way they work with little or no coolant loss ever, means they are less likely to be run without antifreeze and antifreeze has also improved in recent years. So there may be a number of variables involved. I still change an appreciable number of ally rads in the course of my job. So they are not "fit and forget"!

Steve

Carledo wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:05 pmThe only hose you need to mess with is the rad bleed hose on the o/s top of the rad.

Since the Saab radiator is significantly taller and wider it is necessary to make bespoke top and bottom hoses
as well as the one for the vent.
Saab radiators are actually intended for 35mm bore hoses (whereas Dolomites are 32mm)
so for the top hose it is necessary to use a joiner, a 90 degree elbow and 45 degree elbow (one of which needs to be stepped 35 - 32mm)
and the bottom hose needs two joiners and two 45 degree elbows (one of which needs to be stepped) to form a shape
which comes up and over the offside engine mount.


thanks,
Ian.

Aluminium is used in rads mostly to save weight and you can make much thinner tubes with it and so have a larger surface area vs copper/brass for a given size. However it is susceptible to corrosion simply due to the location, think muck, salt and stone being thrown at them. They tend to crumble over time, though they would last pretty much indefinitely on a rarely used car, as of course would a copper/brass one.

Carledo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:56 pm copper and brass are better conductors of heat

Copper's better, but Common Brass has a much worse thermal conductivity than (at least) most Aluminium alloys.
Graham

You can get a second hand Saab rad for next to nothing and as for the hoses, making your own set up is no more expensive than buying a decent set for a normal rad. I think mine is a 9-3 rad and it just about fits without modding the body work.

You can pick up elbows, joiners and hoses off ebay very cheaply, next to nothing if you are prepared to wait for delivery from China.