The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

I've given up my BOC bottles so looking for an alternative set.

I've so far enquired about "Hobby Weld" and "SGS" bottles, but has anyone got experience of them and do the BOC regs work with them.

SGS offer an Acet alternative rather than Acet, Profluid, but is it has hot.

You need a licence (from the local authority/council) to keep and use Acetylene, it's horrendously volatile! And will need to comply with all sorts of H+S regs. Even garages these days can't be bothered with the faff. Especially when there are much better ways of welding than with gas.

The modern hobbyist sets use Propane and Oxygen which is not as hot (or as dangerous) as Acetylene but fine if all you need it for is warming up corroded fittings or using as a "gas axe" or for brazing.

I've not tried to get oxy/propane from Hobbyweld but I use their 5% Argon/Co2 mix for my Mig, it's a lot cheaper and more convenient than BOC who want over £100pa just to have the bottle in my possession, let alone the price they charge for the gas itself (plus delivery fee, even if I collected it myself, robbing b'stards) My current Hobbyweld supplier is even open Sundays, The BOC agents didn't even work Saturdays!

Steve

Carledo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:17 pm You need a licence (from the local authority/council) to keep and use Acetylene, it's horrendously volatile! And will need to comply with all sorts of H+S regs. Even garages these days can't be bothered with the faff. Especially when there are much better ways of welding than with gas.

The modern hobbyist sets use Propane and Oxygen which is not as hot (or as dangerous) as Acetylene but fine if all you need it for is warming up corroded fittings or using as a "gas axe" or for brazing.

I've not tried to get oxy/propane from Hobbyweld but I use their 5% Argon/Co2 mix for my Mig, it's a lot cheaper and more convenient than BOC who want over £100pa just to have the bottle in my possession, let alone the price they charge for the gas itself (plus delivery fee, even if I collected it myself, robbing b'stards) My current Hobbyweld supplier is even open Sundays, The BOC agents didn't even work Saturdays!

Steve

Thanks Steve.

There's no licence required in Scotland from the local authority to have bottles, providing you have paid the appropriate fees to the retailer. It's no different to having portable domestic gas bottles. We might have crap weather, but we don't pay silly taxes like that, shame on the Westminster Government.

I wouldn't bother with anything other than oxy/acet, I've used them all in my job over the years and have no patience for anything other than what acetylene offers, instant heat and perfect cutting properties.

What I'm trying to find is the best deal, and whether BOC sets fit any of the alternative bottles.

new to this wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:50 pm Hi Murdo

i used to have a BOC gas bottle account,but gave if up as was getting to dear,i now have a gas bottle from one of the hobby gas suppliers,the gas regulator is the same,but if you use pub gas your then need a different type of regulator

Dave

Have you got their acet & oxy Dave.

What's the 'pub gas'?

Pub gas could be either carbon dioxide or carbon dioxide/nitrogen mixture.

Toledo Man wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:28 am Pub gas could be either carbon dioxide or carbon dioxide/nitrogen mixture.

Not for my garage then, for a barrel of beer

I wouldn't bother with anything other than oxy/acet, I've used them all in my job over the years and have no patience for anything other than what acetylene offers, instant heat and perfect cutting properties.

What are you using Oxy/Acet for Murdo?

I learned how to gas weld using oxy back in the late '90s at college, I have never used it since. For automotive applications MIG and TIG Welding offer greater flexibility and scope, you can do more with them. After restoring countless cars, I would never go near one with a cutting torch, it's old tech, like using a sledge hammer to hammer in a small nail. Modern cutting discs and air saws far supersede them. I have a plasma cutter for complex shapes but I rarely use it.

As for instant heat there are modern MAP gas bottles and rothenburger heads with fine tips available readily from places like screwfix that do the job perfectly well and just as quick. I got Shauns exhaust off of 138 with the mapp torch, in 30 secs it heated up the exhaust joint until it was red hot, I have also used it to remove stubborn rusted on bolts with the fine tip.

But again, you haven't said what you are using the acet for. I use Hobbyweld for Argoshield and pure Argon for MIG and TIG, the standard bottles should fit the BOC regulators as they are a standard regulator. The Ultra bottles have the regulators built in and use a special connection, this is what I use. Unless you are a full on business then BOC are not cost effective, I have found they are also not interested in dealing with the general public as well.

James467 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:39 am

I wouldn't bother with anything other than oxy/acet, I've used them all in my job over the years and have no patience for anything other than what acetylene offers, instant heat and perfect cutting properties.

What are you using Oxy/Acet for Murdo?

I learned how to gas weld using oxy back in the late '90s at college, I have never used it since. For automotive applications MIG and TIG Welding offer greater flexibility and scope, you can do more with them. After restoring countless cars, I would never go near one with a cutting torch, it's old tech, like using a sledge hammer to hammer in a small nail. Modern cutting discs and air saws far supersede them. I have a plasma cutter for complex shapes but I rarely use it.

As for instant heat there are modern MAP gas bottles and rothenburger heads with fine tips available readily from places like screwfix that do the job perfectly well and just as quick. I got Shauns exhaust off of 138 with the mapp torch, in 30 secs it heated up the exhaust joint until it was red hot, I have also used it to remove stubborn rusted on bolts with the fine tip.

But again, you haven't said what you are using the acet for. I use Hobbyweld for Argoshield and pure Argon for MIG and TIG, the standard bottles should fit the BOC regulators as they are a standard regulator. The Ultra bottles have the regulators built in and use a special connection, this is what I use. Unless you are a full on business then BOC are not cost effective, I have found they are also not interested in dealing with the general public as well.

I'm a welder to trade James, so do all sorts of wee jobs for myself & friends, learned my trade in the oil industry and spent 20 years there before deciding I'd swallowed enough fumes, so changed jobs - I too have used TIG, MIG, Inner Shield, Dual Shield, Sub Arc, Oxy/Acet and Brazing, each with their own unique qualities/properties/uses.

Admittedly the oxy/acet would 'now' be primarily for heating things up, mostly on cars but the odd job for shaping things like rod bars of differing thicknesses, for gates etc, and very 'occasionally' for cutting through steel sometimes up to an inch thick, depending on what we're doing. But the amount I do now (the older I get) it doesn't justify having BOC bottles any longer, so they're off. So I'm looking for the best substitute that meets those needs, so I can still do the 'odd' bit and 'keep my hand in'.

I could get the cutting done by someone else but it defeats the purpose then of helping friends out, and it costs, plus I enjoy the pottering. I do so little though, I even sold my MIG welder 3 months ago, circumstances change so needs change - I held onto my stik welder as it's cost free, and they're not worth much anyway.

I'm glad the regs fit the Hobby Weld bottles, as there's a local supplier not 5 mins from me, so that saves on buying equipment (so that's really useful to know, thanks), the initial deposit is high though at £185 for both bottles, but refills are reasonable.

I'm interested in the mag torch you mention, I've never used one or heard of it, is it what heating engineers/plumbers use - I've lived a sheltered life in the Outer Hebrides

Like James, I learned to gas weld in college, but didn't find it practical to have my own set in the early days and used to rent a set from the local hire shop if I needed to. This was several years before the advent of MiG welders.

This all stopped in England when the new rules about safe storage, transport, etc were introduced. I can't remember exactly when this was, but it was before 1977 as I was still living at home when the hire shop availability ended and I got married and moved out in 77. And I had to learn to use an arc welder!

There is a sort of loophole about having the gases, if you HAD an account with BOC before the legislation was introduced, they'd keep on selling it to you. Many garages kept their BOC accounts long after they were outpriced and outdated, purely on this basis, as it avoided the regulation conformity. Of course, nowadays, garages get regular visits from H+S inspectors, so can't get away with it any longer, but a private citizen like Murdo might because there's no-one with any reason to check up on him!

It may be that Scotland is not as rule bound as England is, my money says it's far more likely that Murdo has unwittingly been storing and using acetylene "illegally" for more years than I care to think about, just because nobody knew!

Steve

Carledo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:42 pm It may be that Scotland is not as rule bound as England is, my money says it's far more likely that Murdo has unwittingly been storing and using acetylene "illegally" for more years than I care to think about, just because nobody knew!

Steve

There's no legal obligation to notify your local authority or pay them a licence fee etc, for storing gas bottles at domestic premises, when bought through a licenced retailer, and all their fees are paid.

When I hopefully go for my new set next week, my only responsibility is to complete the paperwork from the outlet supplying them to me, they then hold all the information on who/where the gas bottles have been supplied (apart from domestic gas; propane etc, there's no paperwork for that).

Carledo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:42 pmt may be that Scotland is not as rule bound as England is, my money says it's far more likely that Murdo has unwittingly been storing and using acetylene "illegally" for more years than I care to think about, just because nobody knew!

Steve

I forgot to mention Steve, I ran the administration of a local garage (in my spare time) for just over ten years, we didn't even have to pay the local authority any individual/separate fee for holding gas bottles (acet etc) for that commercial business either.

RSi wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:30 pm

James467 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:39 am

I wouldn't bother with anything other than oxy/acet, I've used them all in my job over the years and have no patience for anything other than what acetylene offers, instant heat and perfect cutting properties.

What are you using Oxy/Acet for Murdo?

I learned how to gas weld using oxy back in the late '90s at college, I have never used it since. For automotive applications MIG and TIG Welding offer greater flexibility and scope, you can do more with them. After restoring countless cars, I would never go near one with a cutting torch, it's old tech, like using a sledge hammer to hammer in a small nail. Modern cutting discs and air saws far supersede them. I have a plasma cutter for complex shapes but I rarely use it.

As for instant heat there are modern MAP gas bottles and rothenburger heads with fine tips available readily from places like screwfix that do the job perfectly well and just as quick. I got Shauns exhaust off of 138 with the mapp torch, in 30 secs it heated up the exhaust joint until it was red hot, I have also used it to remove stubborn rusted on bolts with the fine tip.

But again, you haven't said what you are using the acet for. I use Hobbyweld for Argoshield and pure Argon for MIG and TIG, the standard bottles should fit the BOC regulators as they are a standard regulator. The Ultra bottles have the regulators built in and use a special connection, this is what I use. Unless you are a full on business then BOC are not cost effective, I have found they are also not interested in dealing with the general public as well.

I'm a welder to trade James, so do all sorts of wee jobs for myself & friends, learned my trade in the oil industry and spent 20 years there before deciding I'd swallowed enough fumes, so changed jobs - I too have used TIG, MIG, Inner Shield, Dual Shield, Sub Arc, Oxy/Acet and Brazing, each with their own unique qualities/properties/uses.

Admittedly the oxy/acet would 'now' be primarily for heating things up, mostly on cars but the odd job for shaping things like rod bars of differing thicknesses, for gates etc, and very 'occasionally' for cutting through steel sometimes up to an inch thick, depending on what we're doing. But the amount I do now (the older I get) it doesn't justify having BOC bottles any longer, so they're off. So I'm looking for the best substitute that meets those needs, so I can still do the 'odd' bit and 'keep my hand in'.

I could get the cutting done by someone else but it defeats the purpose then of helping friends out, and it costs, plus I enjoy the pottering. I do so little though, I even sold my MIG welder 3 months ago, circumstances change so needs change - I held onto my stik welder as it's cost free, and they're not worth much anyway.

I'm glad the regs fit the Hobby Weld bottles, as there's a local supplier not 5 mins from me, so that saves on buying equipment (so that's really useful to know, thanks), the initial deposit is high though at £185 for both bottles, but refills are reasonable.

I'm interested in the mag torch you mention, I've never used one or heard of it, is it what heating engineers/plumbers use - I've lived a sheltered life in the Outer Hebrides

Gotcha, so with anything automotive I don't think an acet torch is necessary anymore but yes, if you're cutting inch thick steel and heating rods for gates I can see where they excel!

RSi wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:07 pm

Carledo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:42 pm It may be that Scotland is not as rule bound as England is, my money says it's far more likely that Murdo has unwittingly been storing and using acetylene "illegally" for more years than I care to think about, just because nobody knew!

Steve

There's no legal obligation to notify your local authority or pay them a licence fee etc, for storing gas bottles at domestic premises, when bought through a licenced retailer, and all their fees are paid.

When I hopefully go for my new set next week, my only responsibility is to complete the paperwork from the outlet supplying them to me, they then hold all the information on who/where the gas bottles have been supplied (apart from domestic gas; propane etc, there's no paperwork for that).

Well at least it's not costing you anything! In England you need a council licence to TRANSPORT scrap (which must be paid for) and if you transport it across council boundaries you need a licence from EACH council whose territory you pass over! They have extortion down to a fine art here! I must try to get oxy/acet from MY local Hobbyweld supplier and see what hoops I have to jump through!

But seeing as I paid only £30 deposit on my Argoshield bottle and you are paying 3 times that (seeing as there are 2 bottles) I think you might be paying a hidden fee for the documentation. I'll give odds that part of holding your info involves dispensing it to the local Fire Brigade at least, if not more. Firefighters are very funny about walking blind into potentially explosive situations! Or the handful I know are!

Way back when I was first married and living in Slough, a neighbour borrowed an oxy/acet welding set to weld up his Herald at home and set fire to it. When the brigade turned out, he informed them what was in the garage. They immediately backed off, evacuated all the houses for a couple of hundred yards around (including mine, 8 doors away) and closed the London to Bristol down fast railway line that ran across the bottom of all our gardens. Then they sat back and waited for the bottles to explode! The explosion took out the garage, utterly destroyed the car and left 5 houses either side with no glass in the rear windows and some other minor damage. My next door neighbour, who had been in the same house during WWII said the bang was louder than than the train mounted AA gun that used to park outside his back yard during the Blitz! Mind you, those WERE the full sized bottles, about 6ft Oxygen bottle and a slightly shorter, fatter Acetylene. I suspect your new ones will not be so massive!

Steve

RSi wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:25 pm I'm glad the regs fit the Hobby Weld bottles, as there's a local supplier not 5 mins from me, so that saves on buying equipment (so that's really useful to know, thanks), the initial deposit is high though at £185 for both bottles, but refills are reasonable.

There is a saying is there not about when something seems too good to be true....?

My neighbour changed from BOC to the non rental type for his Mig welder but wonders if he has done the right thing
because they little cylinders don't contain much gas.....




Ian.