I’ve wired in a halogen headlights conversion following the below diagram.
Simple enough I thought. Except no. The lights work on the master switch - sidelights, then dipped as normal - but when I use the stalk for mainbeam all headlights work but then stay on! The master switch or column stalk won’t turn the lights off. They only turn off when I turn the ignition off! I’ve checked the relays again tonight and they are wired as per the diagram. I’m guessing the live feed could be the problem, but I’m guessing! I’ve tried a nos master switch, and different column stalk, but still have the same issue!!
The only thing that can be the cause is that the blue/white from the switch is still connected to the lamps. In other words, the switch is not just switching the relais but the lamps also. When main is put on, the relais goes on. At that point you can switch the switch to low beam again but a loop is created as the lamps activate the relais and around.
Twin headlamps have two blue/whites from the switch to the lamps. You have to cut both. All two have to be connected to the 87 and only one from the switch side is needed on the 85. The picture is not quite right as the 85 is ground and the 86 is feed, wrong in your pic. Some relais have diodes in them and when using those the 85 and 86 mixed up isn't that good and will create a fire somewhere..
For the main beam I alway's use a slightly more expensive 5 pin relais with a double 87 contact, not te be mixed up by a changeover 87 and 87a 5 pin. Using a double 87 pin relais will give an easier and neater installation using two seperate contacts for the outers and the inners.
In the pic below is the diagram of the fitting manual of my kits.
Yes, there has to be a short between pin 85 and 87 on, at least, the main beam relay.
When the lights are latched on, see if they go off when one or both connectors are pulled off from the 85 pins. If they do go off, and they don't go back on when the pins are re-connected, that shows it's a short causing the pronblem.
Graham
The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.
Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).
I can’t see a second blue / white wire in the loom by the inner wing.
Maybe I need to be looking further forward and mount the relays forward of the battery?
GrahamFountain wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:28 pm
Yes, there has to be a short between pin 85 and 87 on, at least, the main beam relay.
No there doesn't. That will latch the relay on which is exactly the incorrect behaviour Bish describes. The stalk does the latching. It's a Triumph not a Poxhall.
GrahamFountain wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:28 pm
Yes, there has to be a short between pin 85 and 87 on, at least, the main beam relay.
No there doesn't. That will latch the relay on which is exactly the incorrect behaviour Bish describes. The stalk does the latching. It's a Triumph not a Poxhall.
You didn't think I meant "there should be" a short rather than "there must be", i.e. to explain the described behaviour, did you?
That would have been a truly and stupendously dumb thing for any professional electronics (avionics) engineer to have meant!
Graham
The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.
Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).
I think I’ve cracked it tonight. I think I had a dodgy relay on the mainbeam side of wiring. It seems to have been sticking on if that’s possible? It was getting rather hot too! It was a bit of a cheapo from eBay. I’ve swapped it over for another, better quality, relay. All the lights seem to be working fine now
GrahamFountain wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:04 pm
You didn't think I meant "there should be" a short rather than "there must be", i.e. to explain the described behaviour, did you?
That would have been a truly and stupendously dumb thing for any professional electronics (avionics) engineer to have meant!
Graham
Apologies Graham, that is exactly what I thought you meant.
When I fitted relays to the 1850, I used the 4 pin relays with built-in fuses. eBay is a potential minefield although PayPal is heavily on the side of buyers provided you have already paid for your item.
Toledo Man
West Yorkshire Area Organiser Meetings take place on the first Wednesday of the month at 8.00pm at The Railway, 1 Birstall Lane, Drighlington, Bradford, BD11 1JJ
2003 Volvo XC90 D5 SE (PX53 OVZ - The daily driver) 2009 Mercedes-Benz W204 C200 CDI Sport (BJ58 NCV - The 2nd car) 1991 Toyota Celica GT (J481 ONB - a project car)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint), NYE 751L (1972 Dolomite 1850 auto) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!
Bish wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:35 pm
Thanks again for the replies.
I think I’ve cracked it tonight. I think I had a dodgy relay on the mainbeam side of wiring. It seems to have been sticking on if that’s possible? It was getting rather hot too! It was a bit of a cheapo from eBay. I’ve swapped it over for another, better quality, relay. All the lights seem to be working fine now
I really should stop buying crap parts.
It's certainly possible the short between the 85 and 87 pins was internal to the relay. And Tinweevil was right that such a short would basically be the only way to get such a relay to latch-up until power was removed.
As to the other bit, I know the subtleties in the use of auxiliary verbs is one of the nightmares of English grammar. I chaired a British Standards Institute committee (ACE/6/-/9) and was UK rep to AECMA's C2/GT9 for 20 years, and we frequently had to deal with that issue and give definitions for should, shall, must, etc. So perhaps I ought to have known to reinforce the relationship to what the cause has to be rather than what the solution should be.
Graham
Graham
The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.
Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).
However, re-reading the fault description, that suggests that the fuses were connected to the power that's switched by the ignition, or the relay wouldn't have unlatched when that was turned off - you'd have had to disconnect the battery.
Are you sure you want the lights powered that way rather than off the unswitched side, as normal?
Graham
The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.
Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).
Bish wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:12 am
I have wired the relays in as per Jeroen’s suggestion.
87 pin - headlights side.
86 pin - column side.
85 pin - earth.
30 - power from ignition side of fuse box.
I have the 30 on the brown side directly put on the take off on the battery cable but battery will be fine also. 30 on the switched side isn't advised as all the light feeds go through the ignition switch and a few extra meters cable.
The drawing does work that way but currently a lot of universal 4 and 5 pin relays have a diode fitted over the coil. These cannot be fitted as in the drawing and create immediately a short to ground when switched on. That's why it's the best to use 85 as ground and 86 as pos feed so nothing can happen during installation or replacement.
