The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

My project is getting close to MOT time and it’s over 40 years old so on the face of it, doesn’t need an MOT.

However, it’s been modified eg 1300 to Sprint axle, CA18DET engine, Trackerjack brakes.

I’ll get an MOT for my own piece of mind, but hypothetically do I need one ? Quoting the DoT website…

Chassis replacements of the same pattern as the original are not considered to be a substantial change. Chassis is the same.

Axles and running gear - Alteration of the type or method of suspension or steering is a ‘substantial change. Same type of suspension / steering ?

f the number of cylinders in an engine is different from the original it’s likely to be, but not necessarily, the case that the current engine is not alternative original equipment. Same number of cylinders.

Acceptable change - It does not count as a ‘substantial change’ if axles and running gear have been changed to improve efficiency, safety or environmental performance. CA18DET is more efficient ?!

Any thoughts ?

Thanks, Richard

It would be a huge stretch to say you changed the engine for environmental reasons, as that is obvious b0!!ocks.
Be honest with yourself, you have modified the car to be much faster.
It is a no brainer, you need an MoT. No downside at all. Unless the £45 is an issue, but then you will struggle to pay for 1/2 a tank of fuel....
(apols if that is a bit blunt, but trying to find what you consider a loophole is not a good idea here)

I completely agree and it’s a hypothetical question. I’m surprised that the actual wording is so vague as it’s clearly modified !!

I would expect is to say that it’s a substantial change if the engine, axle, brakes etc etc are not OEM equipment.

You want to be careful with the modification points thing too.

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration ... d-vehicles

Your vehicle must have 8 or more points from the table below if you want to keep the original registration number. 5 of these points must come from having the original or new and unmodified chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame.

Chassis, monocoque bodyshell (body and chassis as one unit) or frame - original or new and unmodified (direct from manufacturer) 5
Suspension (front and back) - original 2
Axles (both) - original 2
Transmission - original 2
Steering assembly - original 2
Engine - original 1

5 Chassis
2 Suspension
2 Steering
-----
= 9

And you'd lose engine, transmission, axles. So if you ever change suspension you're perhaps looking at a Q plate.

I've swapped the same things as you on my Dolomite and I still go for an MoT.

Steve

As Steve pointed out, you are dealing with 2 separate authorities with 2 DIFFERENT sets of rules.

The DVLA runs the 8 point rule quoted by Steve above, there are SOME provisos he's not mentioned, but that's the gist of it. This determines whether you get to keep your reg number and historic status or whether you need a BIVA test, a Q plate and road tax for the next 40 years (the Q means you'll need to MOT effectively in perpetuity as well) You need 8 points of a possible 14 to keep on the right side of the regs. But note that if you convert a 1300 Dolomite to Sprint spec, you still have 14 points as everything you fitted is optional for that shell.

The DVSA regs for MOT are a lot more nebulous and vague. "Substantially altered" is far from a precise definition and even the examples quoted are open to interpretation. This one, I think you have to consider the spirit of the rules, rather than the imprecise or even downright contradictory letter of them. You can (and some do) look for loopholes and try to stretch the rules out of shape. Frankly I can't understand WHY! It's an MOT, FFS! £45 or less and i'm sure you know a classic friendly tester. What's the big deal? I even have my legitimately exempt cars tested as a matter of course. If there's nothing wrong with the car, it's no problem, if there are flaws that would fail a test, you shouldn't be driving it anyway!

A Biva costs upwards of £600 and any retest needed is the same again, the process can be incredibly frustrating and cost thousands, not just in itself, but in road tax, MOTs, increased insurance from the Q plate etc. There's a reason all my cars conform to the letter of the 8 point rule. But an MOT is nothing more than a trifle and, if nothing else, is a bit of peace of mind from a second opinion.

Steve

Carledo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:56 pm A Biva costs upwards of £600 and any retest needed is the same again, the process can be incredibly frustrating and cost thousands, not just in itself, but in road tax, MOTs, increased insurance from the Q plate etc.

Is there not also an issue of requiring "E" marked glass to pass an IVA, which isn't available for Dolomites? So you'd need custom laminated front and rear screens made for £££.

captain_70s wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:25 am

Carledo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:56 pm A Biva costs upwards of £600 and any retest needed is the same again, the process can be incredibly frustrating and cost thousands, not just in itself, but in road tax, MOTs, increased insurance from the Q plate etc.

Is there not also an issue of requiring "E" marked glass to pass an IVA, which isn't available for Dolomites? So you'd need custom laminated front and rear screens made for £££.

To be honest I don't know! I've seen the "blue book" of regs you have to comply with and flicked through it a couple of times. But there's a couple hundred pages, I've not READ it! But I wouldn't be suprised either way.

Mostly it deals with features that apply to passenger and pedestrian safety, there's very little on the actual engineering side. It's meant more as a guide to building kit cars or low number production runs, than as a set of rules for what (for want of a better term) i'd call a "hotrod" or "restomod" Whoever was in charge just lumped everything under the same rulebook (also applies to personal import vehicles like old Yanks and, more recently JDM (Japanese Domestic Market) personal imports) without giving any thought (or care) to exactly HOW the rules affect different sorts of car builder and their vehicles. Which is why I am especially careful to build within the 8 point rule and avoid the possibility or need for a BIVA entirely.

There IS a nice loophole in the 8 point rule that I fancy exploiting in my next restomod project. The rules are VERY strict on what you can and can't do with a moncoque shell, not so much with a separate chassis car. If you have a separate chassis, the identity, follows the CHASSIS and the body becomes irrelevant,you can quite literally do what you like, hence cars like the Vincent Hurricane, A Spitfire chassis with a pretty GRP body on top.

You are also allowed to "beef up" that original chassis, strengthening it and adding body/engine mounts as required. So long as you don't cut anything away, you're golden! With this in mind and a hankering I have for something with suicide doors, I'm looking at RM Rileys with a plan to put something Japanese, 6 cylinder and turbocharged under that long flowing bonnet, that should upset the RM owners club (a VERY conservative organisation) no end!

Steve