The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

Im playing with ideas here, Im not overly endeared to the layout of the dash, its been previously modified, not to my taste, I dont have plans to destroy the interior, just move things about slightly so I can see all the extra gauges and lights,

1st question, How does the plank come out?

2nd question, If I over veneer it will that cause fitment issues later?,

3rd question Is it hard to cur a new plank or are things recessed

4th, question, Has anybody got a spare empty plank with glove box lid and hinges they want to sell,?

ian.stewart wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 6:48 pm Im playing with ideas here, Im not overly endeared to the layout of the dash, its been previously modified, not to my taste, I dont have plans to destroy the interior, just move things about slightly so I can see all the extra gauges and lights,

1st question, How does the plank come out?

2nd question, If I over veneer it will that cause fitment issues later?,

3rd question Is it hard to cur a new plank or are things recessed

4th, question, Has anybody got a spare empty plank with glove box lid and hinges they want to sell,?

The plank is secured to the carcass of the crash pad with a load of little nuts and washers, some of which are hard to see and harder to access. I normally remove the whole crash pad and work on it on the bench/kitchen table/whatever

You can over-veneer it, but keep to the face surface.

It's a plank of plywood, you can make a new one. The dials are recessed and some of the switch holes are funny shapes but it can be done. You just have to be aware that, when designing a new dash, there is a lot going on behind it in the vicinity of the heater. I found this out the hard way when I added a 4" 3 way fuel/temp/voltmeter from a T2000 to the left of the 2 stock guage positions. The guage looks fine and you can read it through the steering wheel, but I can no longer turn my heater to cold as the mechanism fouls on the back of the guage!

I don't have a spare plank dash, but i'm sure someone will have one!

Steve

ian.stewart wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 6:48 pm Im playing with ideas here, Im not overly endeared to the layout of the dash, its been previously modified, not to my taste, I dont have plans to destroy the interior, just move things about slightly so I can see all the extra gauges and lights,

1st question, How does the plank come out?

2nd question, If I over veneer it will that cause fitment issues later?,

3rd question Is it hard to cur a new plank or are things recessed

4th, question, Has anybody got a spare empty plank with glove box lid and hinges they want to sell,?

This is why I substituted a "four-headlamp" Dolomite sculptured dashboard (with removable & replaceable concave instrument panel) into my 1974 Triumph Toledo.

Carledo wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:13 pmThe plank is secured to the carcass of the crash pad with a load of little nuts and washers, some of which are hard to see and harder to access. I normally remove the whole crash pad and work on it on the bench/kitchen table/whatever

You can over-veneer it, but keep to the face surface.

It's a plank of plywood, you can make a new one. The dials are recessed and some of the switch holes are funny shapes but it can be done. You just have to be aware that, when designing a new dash, there is a lot going on behind it in the vicinity of the heater. I found this out the hard way when I added a 4" 3 way fuel/temp/voltmeter from a T2000 to the left of the 2 stock guage positions. The guage looks fine and you can read it through the steering wheel, but I can no longer turn my heater to cold as the mechanism fouls on the back of the guage!

I don't have a spare plank dash, but i'm sure someone will have one!

Steve

I anticipated & investigated the possible interference problems behind the dashboard, when I was redesigning the removable & replaceable concave instrument panel to incorporate NINE gauges (including speedometer & tachometer) and an 8-segment warning-light cluster, in the substituted "four-headlamp" Dolomite sculptured dashboard, fitted to my 1974 Triumph Toledo.

By trial-fitting small sections of fibre-board offcuts with just one large gauge-housing or two small gauge-housings or warning-light cluster, in different positions, plus a full-sized cardboard template, I determined the optimal ergonomic arrangement and identified the interference sources, including the heating & ventilation control-lever linkages, to which there is a relatively simple solution; involving slight-shortening of a control rod and a slight rearrangement of the mechanism.

naskeet wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:27 pm

ian.stewart wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 6:48 pm Im playing with ideas here, Im not overly endeared to the layout of the dash, its been previously modified, not to my taste, I dont have plans to destroy the interior, just move things about slightly so I can see all the extra gauges and lights,

1st question, How does the plank come out?

2nd question, If I over veneer it will that cause fitment issues later?,

3rd question Is it hard to cur a new plank or are things recessed

4th, question, Has anybody got a spare empty plank with glove box lid and hinges they want to sell,?

This is why I substituted a "four-headlamp" Dolomite sculptured dashboard (with removable & replaceable concave instrument panel) into my 1974 Triumph Toledo.

Carledo wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:13 pmThe plank is secured to the carcass of the crash pad with a load of little nuts and washers, some of which are hard to see and harder to access. I normally remove the whole crash pad and work on it on the bench/kitchen table/whatever

You can over-veneer it, but keep to the face surface.

It's a plank of plywood, you can make a new one. The dials are recessed and some of the switch holes are funny shapes but it can be done. You just have to be aware that, when designing a new dash, there is a lot going on behind it in the vicinity of the heater. I found this out the hard way when I added a 4" 3 way fuel/temp/voltmeter from a T2000 to the left of the 2 stock guage positions. The guage looks fine and you can read it through the steering wheel, but I can no longer turn my heater to cold as the mechanism fouls on the back of the guage!

I don't have a spare plank dash, but i'm sure someone will have one!

Steve

I anticipated & investigated the possible interference problems behind the dashboard, when I was redesigning the removable & replaceable concave instrument panel to incorporate NINE gauges (including speedometer & tachometer) and an 8-segment warning-light cluster, in the substituted "four-headlamp" Dolomite sculptured dashboard, fitted to my 1974 Triumph Toledo.

By trial-fitting small sections of fibre-board offcuts with just one large gauge-housing or two small gauge-housings or warning-light cluster, in different positions, plus a full-sized cardboard template, I determined the optimal ergonomic arrangement and identified the interference sources, including the heating & ventilation control-lever linkages, to which there is a relatively simple solution; involving slight-shortening of a control rod and a slight rearrangement of the mechanism.

I'm sure there is more than one solution to this problem! I'd considered modifying the linkage, also using the cable from a Herald to control the temperature which is akin to a choke cable, but with graduated movement. I'd even considered replacing ALL the heater controls with something less space hungry. The self same problem caused me to substitute a shorter backed switch for the "factory" rear foglight switch i'd fitted to the Dolomega dash in the space once occupied by the "seat belt" warning light (which I had deleted, along with all it's circuitry, as un-necessary)

I'm not convinced yet that fitting the curved dash to a flat dash car is worth the effort, the layout of the curved dash leaves very little room for the introduction of extra kit, the "pie chart" warning light cluster, whilst clever and a design icon in it's own right, takes up a load of space that could be better used and, finally, the curved wood panel itself is excessively difficult to duplicate if you want to start again on a blank canvas!

I've long since converted the Carledo to an adjustable steering column, which (as well as getting the adjustment, a good reason in itself to do it) gets all the most used switchgear off the dashboard and onto the column, but kept the plank dash for it's versatility and ease of duplication. I'll probably be making the next (MkIII) version from scratch, the only question being what it's made of, wood, thinner wood with a faux carbon fibre vinyl finish, or machine turned aluminium!

Steve

Carledo wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 4:42 pm I'm sure there is more than one solution to this problem! I'd considered modifying the linkage, also using the cable from a Herald to control the temperature which is akin to a choke cable, but with graduated movement. I'd even considered replacing ALL the heater controls with something less space hungry. The self same problem caused me to substitute a shorter backed switch for the "factory" rear foglight switch i'd fitted to the Dolomega dash in the space once occupied by the "seat belt" warning light (which I had deleted, along with all it's circuitry, as un-necessary)

I'm not convinced yet that fitting the curved dash to a flat dash car is worth the effort, the layout of the curved dash leaves very little room for the introduction of extra kit, the "pie chart" warning light cluster, whilst clever and a design icon in it's own right, takes up a load of space that could be better used and, finally, the curved wood panel itself is excessively difficult to duplicate if you want to start again on a blank canvas!

I've long since converted the Carledo to an adjustable steering column, which (as well as getting the adjustment, a good reason in itself to do it) gets all the most used switchgear off the dashboard and onto the column, but kept the plank dash for it's versatility and ease of duplication. I'll probably be making the next (MkIII) version from scratch, the only question being what it's made of, wood, thinner wood with a faux carbon fibre vinyl finish, or machine turned aluminium!

Steve

If one relocates the far-right-hand, circular ventilation vent (or substitute vent) from the RHD instrument panel, to either beneath the dashboard and/or the horizontal top of the dashboard, this would create additional space for instrumentation and/or switches. From experience of driving the Triumph Toledo in hot, humid conditions, I know that for comfort, it would be desirable to incorporate low-level, cool-air ventilation vents at lower-torso, crotch & thigh height.

As I have mentioned elsewhere, the two-piece plastic nacelle of the “four-headlamp” Dolomite adjustable steering column, can accommodate several more switches, in addition to the factory-standard rotary main-light switch and the two combination stalk switches for the horn, direction-indicators and headlamp dip & flasher plus windscreen wipers & washers. It is practical to incorporate at least four, if not five or even six more switches in the nacelle’s vertical surfaces (something I did in the mid-1980s), plus possibly a hazard-warning light switch (similar to that of the Ford Sierra etc) in the nacelle’s upper sloping surface.

I no longer have the Toledo’s original “flat-plank” dashboard which I swopped out 38½ years ago in early-1984, but it’s my subjective impression that the instrument & switch mounting areas of the “four-headlamp” Dolomite sculptured dashboard, are further away from the heater-unit, heating & ventilation control-levers & linkages (as indicated by the longer control-levers) than for the “flat-plank” dashboard; especially to the left of the heating & ventilation control-levers where the 60 mm diameter Kienzle clock is normally fitted.

If you intend to retain a “flat-plank” dashboard, I would be inclined to avoid having any reflective surfaces in line of sight, including “machine-turned aluminium” for the “flat-plank” dashboard’s plank-surface, chromium-plated instrument bezels, chromium-plated steering-wheel spokes or polished stainless-steel windscreen-wiper arms.

My Toledo’s Dolomite HL steering-wheel spokes and original factory-fitted, polished stainless-steel TEX windscreen-wiper arms, caused me a lot of problems with intense reflected glare from the sun on MANY occasions, when travelling in certain directions at certain times of the day & year! Anything of that nature can be a major safety hazard.

It would probably be MUCH easier to create a replacement flat board of the appropriate size & shape, and then machine the apertures for the instruments, using a router. It probably won’t be easy to create the first prototype, substitute concave instrument panel for the “four-headlamp” Dolomite sculptured dashboard, but I feel that it will be worth the effort in the long term. Having a concave instrument panel, reduces or possibly even eliminates, the parallax error in reading the gauges; something that would be inevitable with a “flat-plank” instrument panel, where one’s line of sight to the gauge is not perpendicular to the instrument panel.

https://sciencing.com/prevent-parallax- ... 00073.html

The panel’s curvature is likely to conform closely to the arc of a circle, so after making two simple linear measurements of the existing instrument panel and/or dashboard, I can use the circle theorem pertaining to the intersection of two chords (or in this special case, the bisection of one chord by the other chord), to determine the radius of curvature r. This is an extremely useful mathematical tool, if one has less than half of a complete circular arc. It’s a technique I have previously used to calculate the radius of curvature of my 1973 VW Type 2’s spare-wheel well for an upright spare wheel, so that I could determine the maximum external tyre-diameter that would fit in it.

https://www.mathematics-monster.com/les ... enter.html

https://www.cuemath.com/geometry/Chords-of-a-circle/

https://www.mathwarehouse.com/geometry/ ... chords.php

Once that is done, I can use the simple equation of a circle to define the shape of the curve. In Cartesian co-ordinates, this is given by r² = (x – a)² + (y – b)², where r is the radius and a & b are the co-ordinates of the circle’s centre. For a circle centred at the origin of the co-ordinate system, where a = 0 & b = 0, this simplifies to r² = x² + y², rather like Pythagoras’s Theorem, from which this equation is derived. This can also be expressed as a parametric equation in terms of circular-polar co-ordinates using trigonometry, but it’s more complicated if not centred at the origin.

https://doubleroot.in/lessons/circle/pa ... -equation/

A few months ago, I consulted with a professional shop-fitter acquaintance, who showed me how easy it is to bend quite thick plywood, even without wetting or steaming it beforehand. Over the past several months, I have managed to salvage plywood offcuts of various thicknesses from several different waste skips.

Before I can make a start on it, I first need to make a jig or former, to ensure that the curvature is correct. If I can create a concave former, the plywood can be bent gradually by applying progressively heavier weights such as small sandbags or flexible plastic containers of water. It would be easier to bend several thin sheets of plywood and then glue them together once they have acquired a set shape, but I would need to identify a strong, durable glue and I’m not yet sure whether PVA adhesive would be suitable. Creating the apertures in the concave panel for the gauges, warning-light cluster & switches, might be easier if I had access to a CNC machine tool, but I shall probably have to resort to my old-fashioned carpentry hand-tools such as a jigsaw (or fretsaw or coping-saw), drill and mallet & chisels.

For what it's worth, even the factory curved dash panels don't hold their curvature if left out of the car for extended periods. I had to force the last couple that i've fitted, the Dolomega's (10 years out of the car) and the replacement i've fitted to the water damaged 1500FWD (at least 15 years on a shelf) both needed considerable persuasion to re-assume their correct shape.

Steve

Carledo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 9:15 pm For what it's worth, even the factory curved dash panels don't hold their curvature if left out of the car for extended periods. I had to force the last couple that i've fitted, the Dolomega's (10 years out of the car) and the replacement i've fitted to the water damaged 1500FWD (at least 15 years on a shelf) both needed considerable persuasion to re-assume their correct shape.

Steve

Thank you. I shall keep that in mind.

Carledo wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 4:42 pm I'd considered modifying the linkage, also using the cable from a Herald to control the temperature which is akin to a choke cable, but with graduated movement. I'd even considered replacing ALL the heater controls with something less space hungry.

The beauty of the Triumph Toledo’s & Dolomite’s vertical, three-lever, heating & ventilation controls, is that they are so intuitively simple to understand & operate with little thought, that any significant deviation from this design would make matters more complicated and less ergonomic. I have yet to drive any vehicle which has bettered this design layout!

If one is replacing the entire “flat-plank” of the “flat-plank” dashboard, the most one could reasonably do is to shift the whole three-lever assembly to the left, closer to the glove-box’s hinge-down flap, which would involve shortening the left-hand horizontal control-rod and lengthening the right-hand horizontal control-rod. As mentioned earlier, it would also be desirable to modify the right-hand linkage, to reduce or eliminate interference with any instruments that are close to the right-hand end of the heater box / plenum.

As you have rightly observed, the space between the back of the dashboard and the heater box / plenum is rather shallow and particularly so with the “flat-plank” dashboard I believe, which is somewhat limiting with regard to what can be fitted there. Whether it would be possible to redesign the heater box / plenum is something which might be worth investigating, but it would probably involve a significant amount of work; particularly with regard to the sheet-steel box / plenum, and one would also need to consider the operation of the internal damper-plate, which directs the air-flow to pass through or bypass the heater core.