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Hanging exhausts

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:31 pm
by ian.stewart
As some of you aware my Toledo is far from stock, Im still scratching around finding things out, the exhaust on the car does need to be shortened at the rear as it IMHO sticks out too far beyond the bumper. its supported in what looks like the stock position, just below the rear panel by a single cotton reel type hanger used in tension, so the exhaust hangs from it, the longevity of this hanger is suspect and has started to delaminate and split from the rubber,
so after my procrastinations, is this rubber a stock sort of fixing position, how do I access the inboard side of the cotton reel, take the boot floor out and wriggle greased size 11 hand past the tank to undo a undoubtedly rusty fixing, or did BL in their wisdom use a captive nut????? or even worserer, do I need to remove the fuel tank, especially as it is 95% full

Re: Hanging exhausts

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:44 pm
by new to this
Think your need to remove the tank to get access to the nut, you could modify it and fit a rivet nut to the body, it will be easier to remove in the future, I've got the same thing to do on my car :D :D

Dave

Re: Hanging exhausts

Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:04 am
by Carledo
It's more than likely that your car is fitted with the Rimmer Bros "Sports" exhaust system. This was designed to be used on the Dolomite Sprint which has a longer tail than the Toledo and therefore the tailpipe sticks out too far! The rubber cottonreel mounting is also part of the Rimmers fitting kit, it's a bit of an abortion TBH and always tricky to replace if fitted as per the instructions, even worse if someone has attempted a "simpler way"

I was faced with exactly this dilemma when fitting the Rimmers Sports system to my own Vauxhall powered Toledo, made worse by my own lack of a rear bumper which extends the available length. My solution was to lop 1" off the back end of the cross axle pipe and another 1" off the front end of the rear box inlet pipe (lengthening the clamping slots in proportion) then removing about 5" off the tailpipe (in a rakish slash cut - cos I COULD) which made the length about right.


Image

This, however, put the potential position of the cottonreel mount about halfway round the curve of the rear valance! I was forced to improvise! What I came up with was to remove the mount bracket from a redundant Sprint tailpipe and weld it to the rear silencer and mount to a Sprint bracket with 2 standard rubber mounts, a bodge (if you like) that has endured to this day, more than 10 years later! Since a bodge that lasts over a week is not a bodge but an "engineering solution" i'm letting myself off on this one!

To save you the bother of trying, if the cottonreel mount is bolted straight through the floor and not into the Rimmers strap bracket, you WILL have to remove the tank to get to it! On the plus side, pulling the tank is a piece of cake once you've emptied it!

Steve

PS For a better engineered and easily replaced double cotton reel mount, see my Project Dolomega resto thread, page 16 about halfway down!

Re: Hanging exhausts

Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:35 am
by ian.stewart
Carledo wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:04 am It's more than likely that your car is fitted with the Rimmer Bros "Sports" exhaust system. This was designed to be used on the Dolomite Sprint which has a longer tail than the Toledo and therefore the tailpipe sticks out too far! The rubber cottonreel mounting is also part of the Rimmers fitting kit, it's a bit of an abortion TBH and always tricky to replace if fitted as per the instructions, even worse if someone has attempted a "simpler way"

I was faced with exactly this dilemma when fitting the Rimmers Sports system to my own Vauxhall powered Toledo, made worse by my own lack of a rear bumper which extends the available length. My solution was to lop 1" off the back end of the cross axle pipe and another 1" off the front end of the rear box inlet pipe (lengthening the clamping slots in proportion) then removing about 5" off the tailpipe (in a rakish slash cut - cos I COULD) which made the length about right.


Image

This, however, put the potential position of the cottonreel mount about halfway round the curve of the rear valance! I was forced to improvise! What I came up with was to remove the mount bracket from a redundant Sprint tailpipe and weld it to the rear silencer and mount to a Sprint bracket with 2 standard rubber mounts, a bodge (if you like) that has endured to this day, more than 10 years later! Since a bodge that lasts over a week is not a bodge but an "engineering solution" i'm letting myself off on this one!

To save you the bother of trying, if the cottonreel mount is bolted straight through the floor and not into the Rimmers strap bracket, you WILL have to remove the tank to get to it! On the plus side, pulling the tank is a piece of cake once you've emptied it!

Steve

PS For a better engineered and easily replaced double cotton reel mount, see my Project Dolomega resto thread, page 16 about halfway down!
OH JOY, tank out, of course I brimmed it last time I used the car,
There is another thing I would like to re-engineer whilst im there, its the pump position, its mounted on the inner arch beside the filler neck behind the millboard cover, Its putting it politely a touch noisy, its a Facet red top, rubber mounted, but transfers enough noise to to be able to hear the pump at 50mph, 2jobs, one stone,
As far as I can see, Positioning pump under the car dosent give me Many options either, as the rear floor is quite flat, without jacking the car up, im thinking on the outside to the spare wheel tub just behind the axle?
As for exhaust length, you could be right about the system, it does look like a pro job, and has the typical position for the exhaust, I did consider slash cutting the exhaust to just behind the bumper, in one of my boxes of Shite, tat and many spares I found a small stainless bend of the right diameter, which could give me a downwards facing exhaust exit, Just enough to say sleeper, but that in turn tells me my TIG will have to have the dust blown off of it, new bottle of gas, which, it turn will enable me to fit the Simpson XE hot rod exhaust manifolds its a touch too snug for the Toledo or sell it on, go back to Simpsons and spend upwards of 1k for a new manifold......... Nah, go and buy a bottle of gas..... Im a tightwad....

Re: Hanging exhausts

Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:53 am
by cliftyhanger
ian.stewart wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:35 am
OH JOY, tank out, of course I brimmed it last time I used the car,
There is another thing I would like to re-engineer whilst im there, its the pump position, its mounted on the inner arch beside the filler neck behind the millboard cover, Its putting it politely a touch noisy, its a Facet red top, rubber mounted, but transfers enough noise to to be able to hear the pump at 50mph, 2jobs, one stone,
As far as I can see, Positioning pump under the car dosent give me Many options either, as the rear floor is quite flat, without jacking the car up, im thinking on the outside to the spare wheel tub just behind the axle?
As for exhaust length, you could be right about the system, it does look like a pro job, and has the typical position for the exhaust, I did consider slash cutting the exhaust to just behind the bumper, in one of my boxes of Shite, tat and many spares I found a small stainless bend of the right diameter, which could give me a downwards facing exhaust exit, Just enough to say sleeper, but that in turn tells me my TIG will have to have the dust blown off of it, new bottle of gas, which, it turn will enable me to fit the Simpson XE hot rod exhaust manifolds its a touch too snug for the Toledo or sell it on, go back to Simpsons and spend upwards of 1k for a new manifold......... Nah, go and buy a bottle of gas..... Im a tightwad....
Is the facet mounted on the correct rubber mounts? But even then they are noisy. Not certain under the car will help much either.
You could try a Huco, they are a bit quiter, and you don't need any real pressure, just a reasonable flow rate. Maybe an old SU electric pump would work (friend has one on his 2.5 saloon, that is about 150bhp on SUs )

As to exhaust mount, those bobbins are meant to be in compression, but hijacked by many and used in tension as it is so easy. But prone to failure. I like the old fashioned hanging straps, and often weld a tab on exhaust pipes to attach one.

Re: Hanging exhausts

Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:16 am
by ian.stewart
cliftyhanger wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:53 am
ian.stewart wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:35 am
OH JOY, tank out, of course I brimmed it last time I used the car,
There is another thing I would like to re-engineer whilst im there, its the pump position, its mounted on the inner arch beside the filler neck behind the millboard cover, Its putting it politely a touch noisy, its a Facet red top, rubber mounted, but transfers enough noise to to be able to hear the pump at 50mph, 2jobs, one stone,
As far as I can see, Positioning pump under the car dosent give me Many options either, as the rear floor is quite flat, without jacking the car up, im thinking on the outside to the spare wheel tub just behind the axle?
As for exhaust length, you could be right about the system, it does look like a pro job, and has the typical position for the exhaust, I did consider slash cutting the exhaust to just behind the bumper, in one of my boxes of Shite, tat and many spares I found a small stainless bend of the right diameter, which could give me a downwards facing exhaust exit, Just enough to say sleeper, but that in turn tells me my TIG will have to have the dust blown off of it, new bottle of gas, which, it turn will enable me to fit the Simpson XE hot rod exhaust manifolds its a touch too snug for the Toledo or sell it on, go back to Simpsons and spend upwards of 1k for a new manifold......... Nah, go and buy a bottle of gas..... Im a tightwad....
Is the facet mounted on the correct rubber mounts? But even then they are noisy. Not certain under the car will help much either.
You could try a Huco, they are a bit quiter, and you don't need any real pressure, just a reasonable flow rate. Maybe an old SU electric pump would work (friend has one on his 2.5 saloon, that is about 150bhp on SUs )

As to exhaust mount, those bobbins are meant to be in compression, but hijacked by many and used in tension as it is so easy. But prone to failure. I like the old fashioned hanging straps, and often weld a tab on exhaust pipes to attach one.
TBH, I accept the pumps will be noisy, its the fact that is essentially in the passenger compartment always makes me uncomfortable, and the positioning of the pump is 10" higher than the 1/2 full on the tank, so its having to suck too, I would much rather have the pump much lower, even below the tank so you always have a positive head on the pump. Ill look into that when I have a chance

Re: Hanging exhausts

Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 7:56 pm
by Carledo
The pump won't fit on the vertical face of the spare wheel well, the axle is too close for comfort!

The accepted place is below the boot floor and as far forward as you can get it whilst still getting an unkinked curve on the rubber pipe joining it to the main steel pipe. It'll still be noisy, though maybe not quite as bad! I've had several of the Pacet type pumps and they are ALL noisy, some bearable, some like a drumkit behind your earhole.

The best I found was a replica SU type that was bought for a Morris Minor fitment (so fitted under the bonnet) It was £50, considerably more than the typical £12-15 of a Pacet type, but it produced that typical SU pump sound of a burbling tick when switched on that gradually slowed to an occasional almost imperceptible tick that told you it was time to kick it over. And you couldn't hear it at all with the engine running, even with the bonnet open and leaning over it.

You'd think a pump designed to feed a Moggy's single 1.25" SU would struggle to feed a pair of Webers, but I ran a MKII Zodiac 2.5 litre straight 6 on 3 x 1.5" SU's for years on a £2 SU pump pulled off a scrapyard Moggy Minor! Those were the days!

Steve