Sprint Ignition

[B8WLY]

Terry.

If money is not a problem, go for a 123.

My Sprint has been in storage since October last year. I have not started it for three months. Three turns of the key today it fired up, and idled at 800rpm like it was started and running yesterday.

The 123 is a superb bit of kit that is hard to beat.

The down side is they are pricey.

Richard.

Richard, I was looking at the 123 option but the adapter problem put me off.
Yours looks very neat so how did you manage that please?

Russ

I think Richard has done the donkeywork, collaborating with one 123 supplier to make a model specific 123 dizzy for the Sprint. so no adaptation/conversion parts needed any more. Just swap the original drive gear to the new 123. Think he also paid the development costs so the next ones MIGHT be a bit cheaper! Thanks Richard!

Steve

I only did some research Steve and sent an old Lucas 44D dizzy to the boys in Holland. They did the rest.

I had a similar issue this winter with my Pinto. Was told there was not a 123 for the Pinto block. I spoke to a Pinto race engine builder in of all places, New Zealand. He put me straight on a few things. Got talking to a guy in the UK and managed to work out a V4 Tarnus 123 which also fitted a Saab fitted the Pinto block. I am fitting it Monday.

As for the Sprint engine, the 123 is brilliant!!

[sm519193]

Ok so no adaptor being made in the UK? and we don't have any drawings to get them made

If I want a 123 Distributor I send one to somewhere in the NL and they make it, am I getting this right?
I have a spare Sprint Dizzy

Just need a few more details Who /What /Where etc

And if I get this done, before it needs be fitted should we get all the information off the adaptor or whatever has been created and see if we can get someone to make some more
It seems there loads of us that would like to go down this route

Cheers

[B8WLY]

https://www.123ignitionshop.com/gb/12-123ignition

Address your email for the attention of Leen.

He did my Sprint dizzy a few years ago now but will remember.

He machined the base to the exact dimensions of the Lucas dizzy.

It’s not cheap so don’t be surprised to part with upwards of £500 plus you may get stung with some import tax because of Brexit.

However it’s a straight replacement, with an additional earth required.

Map your own curve and that’s it. Forget about it.

Richard.

[sm519193]

Thanks Richard, I'm going to enquire

Still a shame we can't get our own adapters made

[Carledo]

Thanks Richard, I'm going to enquire

Still a shame we can't get our own adapters made

Well Jeroen Rothman (SOE8M on here) USED to make adaptors, But I don't think he has the facilities or the inclination to do any more.

And Mahesh had (I think) 3 turned up when he 123 converted his Sprint circa 2016/17. I have a hunch he sold one. But he's moved house in the intervening period and the maybe one he had left is MIA.

TBH the adaptors, which had to be sweated into place were a bit of a PITA (get it wrong and you were stuffed) I think the factory made job is much neater and a lot less hassle. Probably worth the extra money as almost anyone can fit one like this!

Steve

[sm519193]

So I did eventually decide to get a 123 dizzy, it arrived a couple of weeks ago and I am now attempting to fit it!
My first hurdle and still a hurdle if I need to move the timing marks, so I am open to any advice!

I needed to get the engine a TDC according to all the info I have seen, but this is a problem for me as I have a electric fan that restricts the amount of space needed to get a socket on the crank pully nut and I don't have a ring spanner that's 38mm (I did take the fan out but still didn't have the clearance, and I wasn't about to take the rad out) even then if I did have a 38mm ring I don't think I would have the angle from the top to get on the nut.
So I thought take the plugs out and with no compression I should be able to turn by hand, absolutely no chance it wouldn't budge, so my next plan of action was to jack up the back put it in 4th and get the wife to help turn the rear wheels together, that was a no go as well the wheels refused to move, With the car back on the ground I then tried bumping, this worked but it was tough! I thought it would easy ... so is it the engine is very tight (its had a Mad Mart rebuild) or does the gearbox and OD have that much of an influence?

Anyway I got the 123 installed, but I have questions - I have sent a couple of emails Richard (B8WLY) but he seems on radio silence at the moment.
In the Installation Manual it states “Bring the engine to the static timing point” is the static timing point 10° BTDC (this is for a Dolomite Sprint) or TDC 0°, When watching several videos they all talk about taking it to TDC and install the 123

This is where I am at, I took the old distributor out at TDC (0 and crank lining up, number 1 cylinder rockers have movement) Installed the 123 turned the distributor until the light just comes on – this is what I think is correct, but now there is almost no room for any more rotation of the distributor in a CW direction

As I feed the distributor in the bolt holes line with to the top centre of the distributor raceway, as I turn it to get the LED to light I then end up back at the bottom of the raceway, I have tried may positions to get the optimal adjustments but this seems to be the best at the moment, but that might change if I should have the crank lined up to the 10° mark
You are limited in the positioning of the 123 because the cap fouls on the inlet manifold

After an email to 123Ignition and speaking to Leen he at least got me on the right way to getting the raceway dead centre with the LED to light up, there are 3 hex grub screws that hold the body to the adaptor, I undid these positioned the distributor where it was dead centre took it back out and tightened job done...well that is if someone tells me I should have done it with the crank at the marks for 10° BTDC and not 0 TDC



Steve M

[Carledo]

"Static timing point" is indeed 10 degrees BTDC (before top dead centre) This is the point at which the spark would or should occur at the points if you still had them. So it's the point you should time the 123 to.

People, even hardened long term Sprint owners, often have trouble with distributor position. The problem is it will only go in at one or other end of the distributor travel on the locating bolts and obstinately refuses to time in the middle of it's range. From time to time, this problem troubled ME as well. Then I worked it out!

The distributor driven gear has 12 teeth which may engage at any one of 12 x 30 degree increments available. BUT the oil pump drive, that the bottom of the driven gear locates onto, has only a hex drive, so will only naturally locate at 6 of those 12 possible locations and balk or refuse to enter at the other half of them. So if you have the choice of either end but not the middle (the range the bolts allow is around 100 degrees) what is required is to remove the dizzy, turn the oil pump drive as close to 30 degrees as you can with an 8mm socket on a longish extension, then you will find the dizzy miraculously fits in the middle of it's timing range! SEEMPLES!

Steve

[new to this]

What does the dizzy 123 adaptor plate look like ?

Dave

[sm519193]

"Static timing point" is indeed 10 degrees BTDC (before top dead centre) This is the point at which the spark would or should occur at the points if you still had them. So it's the point you should time the 123 to.

People, even hardened long term Sprint owners, often have trouble with distributor position. The problem is it will only go in at one or other end of the distributor travel on the locating bolts and obstinately refuses to time in the middle of it's range. From time to time, this problem troubled ME as well. Then I worked it out!

The distributor driven gear has 12 teeth which may engage at any one of 12 x 30 degree increments available. BUT the oil pump drive, that the bottom of the driven gear locates onto, has only a hex drive, so will only naturally locate at 6 of those 12 possible locations and balk or refuse to enter at the other half of them. So if you have the choice of either end but not the middle (the range the bolts allow is around 100 degrees) what is required is to remove the dizzy, turn the oil pump drive as close to 30 degrees as you can with an 8mm socket on a longish extension, then you will find the dizzy miraculously fits in the middle of it's timing range! SEEMPLES!

Steve

Thanks Steve for the explanation and I now understand why no mater how many times I tried I could only get it to position at either end of the race way
However I was lucky enough to be able to turn the whole body with the distributor clamp fixed in place once I had the extra knowledge of the 3 grub screws, but that was a faf, now knowing I could just turn the hex shaft 30° will help

So now I'm looking at moving to the 10° static point and starting again, that brings into play the rotating of the engine, with Marts excellent engine rebuild I knew it should be all nice and tight but I didn't expect it to be that difficult to turn and certainly not to the extent that I have to put in in gear and give it some proper beans by bumping it from the back and then run to the front to see how much I had moved it
I guess you might have modified some lovely 38mm ring spanner for those tight situations

[sm519193]

What does the dizzy 123 adaptor plate look like ?

Dave

Dave, maybe an adaptor is not quite the right word, its more of an adaption as I sent my spare dizzy to 123Ignition and they used the bottom half which included a newly machined clamp plate

[new to this]

Thanks for posting what it looks like

Dave

[Carledo]

I guess you might have modified some lovely 38mm ring spanner for those tight situations

I don't even have a 38mm ring spanner!

My trick is to put a ring spanner (22 or 24mm) on the alternator pulley nut, apply pressure to the fanbelt midway between pulleys and turn the engine that way. It also gives a geared effect to the turning for better accuracy.

If that doesn't work (it should really) try jacking only 1 rear wheel, the differential effect will let you turn the engine (in 4th gear) just by rocking the wheel that is in the air.

Steve

[xvivalve]

If that doesn't work (it should really) try jacking only 1 rear wheel, the differential effect will let you turn the engine (in 4th gear) just by rocking the wheel that is in the air.

Steve

Unless you have a limited slip differential!

[sm519193]

If that doesn't work (it should really) try jacking only 1 rear wheel, the differential effect will let you turn the engine (in 4th gear) just by rocking the wheel that is in the air.

Steve

Unless you have a limited slip differential!

Unfortunately I don't but I did get it to move using the 22mm spanner and the alternator pully nut method, just started her up but she sounds like a bag of nails, put the strobe on and she's running about 13° so not wildly out I need to check if all cylinders are firing correctly

[Carledo]

If that doesn't work (it should really) try jacking only 1 rear wheel, the differential effect will let you turn the engine (in 4th gear) just by rocking the wheel that is in the air.

Steve

Unless you have a limited slip differential!

Unfortunately I don't but I did get it to move using the 22mm spanner and the alternator pully nut method, just started her up but she sounds like a bag of nails, put the strobe on and she's running about 13° so not wildly out I need to check if all cylinders are firing correctly

Probably worth checking the firing order from the cap, that Bosch cap type doesn't necessarily relate to the Lucas one in terms of which lead goes where!

Just a thought! Steve