Historic status

[new to this]

Ive just received my log book back after apply for Historic status, forgot to photo it before sending log book off, should the log book say Dolomite Sprint ? mine just says Dolomite 1998cc

Dave

[Carledo]

Yes, it should say Dolomite Sprint - if that's what it is! Ie with a VA comm number. Since you don't know (and more importantly have physical evidence) how it was written up before, I doubt you'll have much joy in getting it correctly registered.

But it wouldn't be alone in being misidentified on the V5, to err is DVLA's SOP! I know of one MUCH worse! It's on the V5 with a VA comm number, VA engine number 1998cc capacity and it's an original Magenta (Sprint only colour) car yet the V5 calls it a Triumph 1500!

Back in the 70s, log books were written at local council licencing offices, the predecessors of DVLA's Local Vehicle Licencing Offices (LVLOs) and mistakes were rife. Basically the clerks wrote verbatim what the registering dealers representatives told them, without ever seeing the car or checking anything. The salesman, or more likely his secretary, would probably be registering a dozen cars at once, THEY wouldn't check either as they didn't know what was right or wrong. Then, and this continued into DVLA's time and is still true today, point blank refused to correct anything that wasn't right!

Steve

[Ralph]

I had a similar run in with the DVLa when I changed the engine in my 1968 A35 van from the original 850cc lump to the 1098cc which was optional at the time, and had been standard fitting in earlier years. At the same time I was changing it to Historic status, and a colour change too.
I got the new V5 back with the colour change and the historic status changed and a letter stating that before they would change the engine no and capacity details I needed to supply a copy of the invoice from the engine vendor, an engineers report on the installation, and have the vehicle put through an emissions test in case the new engine put it in a different emissions category !!
Needless to say I didn`t bother. I recently sold the van with the V5 still saying 850cc, and just gave the new owner the letter.
Ralph

[Carledo]

I had a similar run in with the DVLa when I changed the engine in my 1968 A35 van from the original 850cc lump to the 1098cc which was optional at the time, and had been standard fitting in earlier years. At the same time I was changing it to Historic status, and a colour change too.
I got the new V5 back with the colour change and the historic status changed and a letter stating that before they would change the engine no and capacity details I needed to supply a copy of the invoice from the engine vendor, an engineers report on the installation, and have the vehicle put through an emissions test in case the new engine put it in a different emissions category !!
Needless to say I didn`t bother. I recently sold the van with the V5 still saying 850cc, and just gave the new owner the letter.
Ralph

This is what you get for confusing the poor sods at DVLA with too many changes! Or maybe they were new, or just having a bad day!

Rules were introduced circa 2013 to try and cut down on parts ringing (like stolen engines) that made it obligatory to have an invoice or some sort of provenance for the engine you are putting in, Difficult when the engine came from a mate (who's since passed/emigrated/whatever) and sat under the bench in your garage for 20 years! They just didn't think it through!

I was faced with this when I first tried to get the Carledo registered with the Vauxhall engine in 2014. I'd have left it too, but the car was then still liable for VED and the bigger engine put it in a different tax bracket and I didn't want the car crushed for tax fraud!

I had, of course, no provenance whatsoever for the engine, i'd pulled it from a scrapper years ago, but I found a loophole, in that you can get the car certified as having the engine you've fitted by a relevant owners club official (I got the local TSSC Area Organiser to do mine) on headed Club paper and they'll accept that.

I certainly never got an engineers report and, though i'd had it MOT'd, as I had to, with it being "substantially altered", I'd had it tested as the car's age not the engine's age, (I got to choose) so the emission test was "visible smoke check only" It's a pre cat 89 engine so would have passed emission test anyway! In fact, on a later date, I had it cat tested just for giggles and it would have passed if I could have got the Lamba reading a tiny bit lower - it doesn't even HAVE a cat fitted!

There's been a lot of muttering around the same rules about engineers reports, but that's an option if no provenance, rather than being "as well as". As for emission status, that's THEIR mistake, it's historic FFS, emissions are totally irrelevant.

But your BIG mistake was saving on postage and trying to get 3 changes at once! Had that been me, i'd have got it changed to Historic at the Post Office first. Then sent the V5 off a month or two later for the engine change and followed THAT a month or two later with the colour change. That way they don't get muddled!

Finally, the rules are still on the books, but are largely ignored by DVLA staff these days, it turned out the ruling caused endless grief for them and their customers and NO ringed engines were found thereby. So nowadays if you just send the V5 in with the engine change (and ONLY that) clearly stated, chances are, you'll get it back corrected without comment. I'm about to do this with the Dolomega even though I HAVE provenance (a bill of sale for the Donor Omega and a V5 for the car, registered in my name) I won't initially send it in, just wait and see if they query it!

Steve

[new to this]

Im still having trouble with DVLA about my log book, after changing it to Historic satus

DVLA are asking for a MAKE code and Model code can the club supply me with these ? Didnt know there was any just thought it was know as Triumph Dolomite Sprint

Would a heritage certificate say the right model and if so how do i go about getting one

Thanks Dave

PS Does VA5019DCO sound like a Sprint chassis Number ?

[GlenM]

But your BIG mistake was saving on postage and trying to get 3 changes at once! Had that been me, i'd have got it changed to Historic at the Post Office first. Then sent the V5 off a month or two later for the engine change and followed THAT a month or two later with the colour change. That way they don't get muddled!

Steve,

Your comments are encouraging, as I have literally just put a stamp on a letter to the DVLA, to change my Dolomite from 1500cc, to the 1809cc Nissan CA18DET engine. The car already has Historic status, and I am planning a colour change but that's a fair way down the line, so I will do that later.

Fingers crossed that it goes through.

Glen.

[xvivalve]

I've had genuine Sprints in the past with correct VA numbers recorded but just 'Dolomite' on the logbook model description

[tangocharlie1]

Dave

PS Does VA5019DCO sound like a Sprint chassis Number ?

VA5019DLO Would be a chassis number for a Dolomite Sprint.

[Ralph]

[/quote]

Steve,

Your comments are encouraging, as I have literally just put a stamp on a letter to the DVLA, to change my Dolomite from 1500cc, to the 1809cc Nissan CA18DET engine. The car already has Historic status, and I am planning a colour change but that's a fair way down the line, so I will do that later.

Fingers crossed that it goes through.

Glen.
[/quote]

Be careful, changing the engine for one that was not originaly fitted or available as an option may cancel your Historic status.
Ralph

[GlenM]

Steve,

Your comments are encouraging, as I have literally just put a stamp on a letter to the DVLA, to change my Dolomite from 1500cc, to the 1809cc Nissan CA18DET engine. The car already has Historic status, and I am planning a colour change but that's a fair way down the line, so I will do that later.

Fingers crossed that it goes through.

Glen.
[/quote]

Be careful, changing the engine for one that was not originaly fitted or available as an option may cancel your Historic status.
Ralph
[/quote]

Ralph,

I am not so worried about that, I would always get the car MOT tested anyway and I would just have to bite the bullet and pay the Road Tax. However, IIRC, Richard Hyde has changed his to the CA18 DET engine and retained Historic Status.

Glen.

[Carledo]

Be careful, changing the engine for one that was not originaly fitted or available as an option may cancel your Historic status.
Ralph

Transplanting an engine for a different make/size does NOT automatically cancel your historic status entitlement. You only lose it if your build falls outside the notorious DVLA "8 point rule" specifications. Look them up, I cant be bothered to quote chapter and verse here again.

Stick to the 8 point rule and you'll have no problems at all. I've seen 2 or 3 Dolomites fitted with the CA18DET like Glen's car and I know it can be done within the rules.

On a slight tangent, don't confuse DVLA's version of modified, "radically altered" (ie outside the 8 point rule) with DVSA's (the authority in charge of MOTs) rules on "sustantially modified" They are 2 completely different rule sets from 2 independent authorities.

"Radically altered" for DVLA is something like a 1953 Ford Anglia with a tube chassis, V8 engine, GRP body and Jag axle (to quote an extreme case) where almost nothing matches the original car except the number plate. Get caught by DVLA with such a vehicle and your V5 and historic status will be revoked and the vehicle will have to pass a stringent and expensive BIVA inspection, get issued with a Q plate and be liable for VED forevermore (or at least the next 40 years) before it can be returned to the road. Pretty Draconian IMO!

"Substantially modified", the DVSA's version, however, can be applied to something as simple as dropping a Rover V8 into your previously inline 4 cyl MGB. This is not a real problem, as all that will happen is you are obliged to get the car MOT'd every year instead of using the historic MOT exemption.

Since, IMO, the historic MOT exemption is a farce that should never have been passed anyway and all my historic cars, modified or stock, are tested every year regardless, I don't regard this as any sort of hardship!

My 2p worth, Steve

[GlenM]

Steve,

The most significant body modification on mine will be a set of Sprintspeed arches. No spaceframe chassis, or GRP body!

Glen.

[Carledo]

Steve,

The most significant body modification on mine will be a set of Sprintspeed arches. No spaceframe chassis, or GRP body!

Glen.

My comments were mostly meant to reassure you mate!

Steve

[GlenM]

Steve,

The most significant body modification on mine will be a set of Sprintspeed arches. No spaceframe chassis, or GRP body!

Glen.

My comments were mostly meant to reassure you mate!

Steve

I know, and they did. I was just being flippant. Thanks.

Glen.

[GlenM]

Well, that was relatively easy. I got the V5 back today with the capacity change, and Historic Status retained.