Project White

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dollyboy · #1 Post by **dollyboy** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:08 am

I recently acquired a 1300 toledo. One possibility for this car is to turn her into an entry level budget race chariot. 
 
I know shes going to need some work to prepare for this, if thats what we decide to do. I also need to get a race licence. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /devil.gif ALT=":evil"> 
 
A friend of mine has offered his services as far as engine work and other mechanical stuff is concerned. 
 
Personally I have nothing more than a stack of karting experience (nothing serious, mostly twin engine biz karts), and when I was young and fit ( <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> ) I used to race bikes, i mean the pedal variety. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"> 
 
apart from that, ive done a track day at donnington some years ago with jim russell racing school (the company I worked for had a hospitality suite there so we got it cheap!), and there again on my bike (motor type!) so this basically would be all new to me. 
 
What I could really use is a bit of guidance from someone in terms of what would be a good series to aim at entering, what mods would be needed/allowed on the car, or a hint of where to go to find the info. 
 
Its just a feasibility study at this stage, may come to nothing, but id be very grateful for any advice... 
 
ta 
 
kev

dollyboy · #2 Post by **dollyboy** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:43 pm

my guess is it could be fairly competitive with 1300 spitfires and the likes of, if lowered etc? 
 
<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... ohwell.gif ALT=":">

dollysteve · #3 Post by **dollysteve** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 5:46 pm

Depends what type of racing you want to do. Next year I`m going to be competing in a hillclimb and sprint championship in my 1850, this is basically a timed run up a set route, much like the goodwood fesival of speed but slower. You can literally turn up in you everyday ford mundano and there is a class for it. As for mods, you can do pretty much what you like, you`ll just be put in a higher class, for this reason i`m starting with a fairly standard car, just to get the feel for it all, having said that even standard road cars are allowed suspension mods. To compete, you need a National B non Race licence, this can be upgraded by getting the clerk of the course signature at eash event you compete in. The top licence is the race national A, for this you have to complete a course at an ARDS school and provide medical reorts and stuff.<a href="http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/msa_ ... cation.pdf" target="top">Licence Application</a> 
<a href="http://www.msauk.org/site/custom/home/d ... chapter=22" target="top">MSA Home page</a> 
 
You`ll also need to join a local motorclub.

1976 Dolomite was a 1500 
1976 Dolomite 1850 HL Auto 
1979 Dolomite 1850 HL Man o/d 
1989 Noisy Mini 1340 
1995 2.3 Saab 900 
1968 1300 FWD

dollyboy · #4 Post by **dollyboy** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:55 pm

just what i needed, thanks steve. 
 
I was thinking along the lines of track/circuit stuff. 
 
I have a couple of friend/colleagues who joined the Caterham Academy a year and two years ago respectively, I've been along to a couple of events and have some insight into what they've been through to get licences, like you say, medicals, driving test etc. 
 
Still investigating... 
 
<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /happy.gif ALT=":D">

Carsreunited · #5 Post by **Carsreunited** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 8:26 pm

Are you sticking with the original lump? 
 
It's a tough one in terms of which series it cold fit into. THe TR/TSSC don't currently allow non-sports cars but you could get a few invitation type races but you don't score points. 
 
I could put you in touch with the elligibility guys for the Classic Touring Car Club. The Historic class has been amalgamated with the Post Historic grids so you have Mini's, Morris minors etc. In terms of engine capacity, the Toledo would fit in but the fifficulty lies in its lack of homologation History. I would imagine that if it was built to the regs they would make a decision on allowing it in. They have let a Peerless race and basically stated that anything with a back seat in production would be considered on its merits. 
 
Read the earlier part on my Diary thread for info on getting your ARDS and doing all that stuff. RAce National B is what you need if you want to go curcuit racing. I'd recommend doing it at Mallory as they are one of the cheapest and aren't going to try and sell you tuition. 
 
I'll find a link for the PHTC regs to give you an idea of what mods are allowed. No EWP's !! 
 
<a href="http://www.csccgb.co.uk/pages/tech_regs ... l(web).pdf" target="top">www.csccgb.co.uk/pages/tech_regs/pdfver ...  
 
<a href="http://www.csccgb.co.uk" target="top">www.csccgb.co.uk</a>

Edited by: <A HREF=http://p206.ezboard.com/bthetriumphdolo ... eunited</A> at: 22/12/05 8:30 pm

dollyboy · #6 Post by **dollyboy** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 10:59 am

ta scott. 
 
its all very interesting stuff, mallory is about 5 miles from the house I have for sale, so thats easy, quite practical, and cheaper is definitely a good thing at the minute! 
 
In your (or anybody else reading) travels through motor sport world, have you or anyone ever seen a toledo competing in any events? 
 
Im sure she'd probably be a head turner anyway (or certainly would be given the ideas for paint job I have in mind!) 
 
The engine is mainly the reason for the questions - its the same as in the spitfire of course, and apparantly Jigsaw have been known to squeeeeeze 120hp out of that unit, which would be interesting ?! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... ns/eek.gif ALT=":eek"> 
 
I've been in discussions with mr speedy, he's set up to rebuild and mod the engine as appropriate, but it a matter of how far to go and how that effects elegibilty to compete etc, eg. bigger carb, even twin carbs or webers, cam, blah blah blah. 
 
We also have the possibility of sticking a sprint engine in her, or even a slant 4 turbo (which I reckon would be fun but god knows how that would effect reliability, or the possibility of racing her at all, so probably a bit pointless), and either with 4 speed and overdrive, or possibly even 5 speed. 
 
Then theres how far we could go or would be allowed to go with suspension mods - sticking poly bushes all through, avos and even rose jointed rods (that mr speedy can make) etc. 
 
Its all obvioulsy a bit complicated, our theory being we want to keep her in a low class and not spend a fortune initially, that is assuming we can find an appropriate series to get into. 
 
We could aim to get up and running with this for 2007 hopefully... 
 
I certainly think a race prepared toledo would look more sporty than a moggy anyway! 
 
I'm really keen to have a proper go at something soon, one way or another, and if its not this then maybe more likely to stump up some 'real money', do the lemming style jump on the band wagon thing and go down the caterham route. 
 
nooooooooooo! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... ohwell.gif ALT=":"> 
 
<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /happy.gif ALT=":D">

Carsreunited · #7 Post by **Carsreunited** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:50 pm

Stick with the 1300 lump and put some Twin 40's on it. Be careful not to strip the dash and door cards out (yet!). 
 
I'll give the eligibility guy an email and run it past them. If they think its do-able then I'll pass on your details. 
 
It's not super expensive Graeme when your car is broken and you can't enter a race! I didn't even use my sponsorship money last year! I can do 2 races per meeting next year (Post Historics and Group 1) for about £200. That's about 80 minutes of track time which compares quite favourably with Sprinting etc. 
 
I'll post a message on ten/tenths for you and see if anyone else has any series suggestions. 
 
Scott 
 
Here you go. Hope we get some sensible replies! BTW, its worth checking out the racers forum and the technology one. They can be quite informative. 
 
<a href="http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthr ... ost1489498" target="top">www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php ...  
 
 
 

Edited by: <A HREF=http://p206.ezboard.com/bthetriumphdolo ... eunited</A> at: 23/12/05 11:15 pm

SMIFTER · #8 Post by **SMIFTER** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 1:29 pm

Sounds like an interesting project - I'm sure there used to be a very modded 1300 toledo around that was used for rallying, but i've never heard of one used for circuit racing. Dunno what happened to the rally car. 
 
Racing in any series is expensive and full of pain - motorsport is great way to get rid of any excess cash! - just look at Scotts experiences! - It would probably be cheaper buy a ready prepared car thats proven rather than build one from scratch as the regs are pretty onerous. 
 
Or you could just say balls to it all and carry out some mental mods and make a very interesting track day weapon that you can go hillclimbing in. 
 
Whatever you do, make it funky<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/wink.gif ALT=";)">

dollyboy · #9 Post by **dollyboy** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 3:06 am

it seems that every1 i talk to has a different opinion on the 'best' way to go, which is sort of what I expected... 
 
Graeme - i thought along the lines you suggest, and actually think this is the most realistic and practical thing to do. 
 
<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... ohwell.gif ALT=":"> 
 
I spoke with wag (caterham racing buddy) who gave me the lowdown on what he's done. This is the end of his 2nd yr of caterham thrashing, and he's loving it. he got set up originally for somewhere in the region of just under 20k, including caterham race academy support, car (new), trailer etc etc. he has national b licence, but he's not short of a few £££ and also splashed out on a motorhome to tow his chariot and stop over at the further away meetings, in car video set up, pit goodies etc. nice story. he finished his series at the end of the first yr i think 5th out of 28 or so in his group. 
 
While it'd be nice to have a spammed up toledo with funky head turning paintwork, maybe one or two sponsors etc, in reality i think that mr smifters words of wisdom strike a chord with my thoughts on this. 
 
Mr Speedy and I could work on the car, make it look the dogs danglers and do whatever with it, it owes me £30 for a new bootlid, so i could banger race it for a chuckle and not lose out, but thats just a waste of a nice little car. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /frown.gif ALT=":("> 
 
I reckon I go with the original plan, do the toledo up nicely, fresh paint, nice n tidy, use it for shows etc and then give her to lewis (step son) when the times right, but first keep my attention focused on doing 'orange', my main daft OTT jigsaw powered fast road toy, and get her on the road asap in the new year, budget allowing. 
 
The caterham thing is probably more up my street sport-wise, basically a car in a box with all the know how from the caterham crew to back me up, and the other thing is you can only join the academy if you've never held a race licence before... i can fund this comfortably when my house sells. 
 
like mr smifter says, theres track days (which I intended to have a bash at in orange now n again), hillclimbs etc, and if i want to go properly quick ive got my bike. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"> which will hopefully get chopped in for a daytona 955 in the new year. 
 
as you can tell, im not the fastest decision maker <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> and this is not yet written in stone, i'll watch your post scott and see what crops up... no rush. 
 
im very grateful for all your input folks, i WILL have my 4 wheel track fun one way or another! 
 
<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /happy.gif ALT=":D">

MaddMart · #10 Post by **MaddMart** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 1:18 pm

I have to go along with Graeme. 
 
I was wanting to do what Scott is doing but after Graeme, Scott & myself attended a seminar (er, small meeting) in Jigsaw Mark's office a couple of years ago, I decided to leave it for a while, but now I know I can't afford to go racing unless I win the lottery. I do envy Scott though, even though he didn't get much racing done last year, I'm sure he'll make up for it in 2006 and I shall go along to support him whenever I can. 
 
I also considered Sprinting/Hill Climbing but after talking with Graeme about costs, it didn't seem worth it for the amount of track time you get. 
 
I'm sticking with track days for the foreseeable future, I will probably be going to 3 action days at Castle Combe in 2006 (aswell as a few others around the country), even though these work out quite expensive compared with other track day events (£s per track time).

Martin 
 
<a href="http://www.dolomitesprint.com/" target="top">www.dolomitesprint.com</a>

dollyboy · #11 Post by **dollyboy** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 2:01 pm

stuff like this is always going to end up getting restricted by cash... <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... ns/mad.gif ALT=">:"> and they say golf is an expensive hobby ?! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> 
 
until i get my house gone, im lumbered with cashflow issues. the accident in my mrs car ended up costing me £1200, so my visa card isnt happy at the minute (could have been a lot worse though), along with the usual Christmas expenses which have crucified me, and im looking forward to the day when my pay goes in and I end up in the black! 
 
Im soooooo determined to get orange on the road its at the 'obsession' level now, but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, and Im desparately trying not to get distracted by the toledo... 
 
thanks mart, I need to be told this more, but the sad thing is the more i hear this kind of stuff the more it brings me crashing back into reality... but it helps remind me to keep my mind on one project at a time, which is a good thing. 
 
i should maybe try to catch up with you lot to watch your track day mayhem sometime next year if ok? 
 
anyway, last minute wrapping to do, a trip to b&q for more dremel fittings and some autosol. polishing to do... grrrr. 
 
enjoy xmas etc 
 
kev

gmsclassics · #12 Post by **gmsclassics** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 10:34 am

Friend of mine has been campaining a 2 door Toledo in circuit racing in NZ. Started off with a 1500 tuned motor, then onto an 1850 (which was slightly slower) and now has a tuned TR7 motor waiting to go in. Trouble is he also has a Vitesse and has switced to that for the time being. 
With the right tyres and suspension set up it could carry a lot of speed through the corners, although straight line speed (ie power) was never up with my Sprint. 
 
Geoff

dollyboy · #13 Post by **dollyboy** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 1:53 am

im pretty certain now the toledo racing option is not a goer, mainly due to current cash limitations. i think i'd rather just tidy her up properly. 
 
a new 1.6 caterham is about 16k, you can race it for a yr or 2 then sell it for 12k, so thats probably the favorite. 
 
geoff - interesting to know, apparantly the shell on the 2 door should be more rigid, which makes sense, and I'd expect if you stuck like for like lumps in a dolly vs a toledo, there'll be a few less kgs in a toledo, which may (or may not) be an advantage handling-wise... 
 

project orange - the longest rebuild project ever 
project white - dont know what to do with her yet

Carsreunited · #14 Post by **Carsreunited** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 2:52 pm

Our series has just had the old Milltek BMW's come on board so we will now have an entry level 'cheap' racing called 'The Production BMW Championship'. The idea being that you pick a 320i up for £500, throw a cage, seat, fire extinguisher and other safety requirements in and go racing. We have also started the 'Pre 91' Touring car series so you now have. 
 
Historics and Post Historics (Pre 1974) 
Group 1 (Pre 1983 Touring Cars) 
Classic Thunder 
Production BMW's 
Pre 1991 Touring cars 
 
Should be a good days racing as a spectator. 
 
Scott

dollyboy · #15 Post by **dollyboy** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 8:45 pm

thats spot on scott, I'll certainly be up for coming along to wave the "we love scott, ra ra ra" flag 
 
<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /smile.gif ALT=":)">

project orange - the longest rebuild project ever 
project white - dont know what to do with her yet

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