Free speech...

[Jon Tilson]

Had to laugh at the press this morning...<br>
On one page you've got a bunch of nutters telling the BBC that they cant show a report of cartoons in a French newspaper. If they do of course we can expect our tubes and trains to all be blown up, cos that is completely justified. Said cartoons are of a well known murdering terrorist rapist and paedophile from several hundred years ago of course.<br>
On another they are all up in arms cos a well know leader of a minority political movement gets away with telling the truth but was put in court for doing so cos it was in a supposed racist manner.<br>
<br>
With a press like that (free supposedly) is it any wonder all our cars are made by Japanese or German transplants who a generation or so ago we were fighting against to preseve the same free press...among other things of course. At the same time we fight a war in Irag for no good reason while we let a despot somewhere else murder our kith and kin and drive them off their land and then seem a tad surprised when he turns on his own kind, trashes his economy and starves his neighbours.<br>
<br>
The world is a sad mad place...<br>
<br>
Jonners<br>


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[bodgerben]

It's only a bloody comic! And the raving People's Front of Bromley are loosing the plot...<br>
<br>
And as we're onto free speech... bloody religion - the devils work if you ask me.<br>
A right bunch of blithering idiots through time have rammed stupid religious superstition down everyones neck, my religion is better than your coz mines a red one and will do 0-60 hail mary's faster than yours.<br>
<br>
You would have though that in this day and age people would known better - there is no bloody god, just a bunch of fanatics trying to have a pop at each other. Christ (sic) even the bloody Christian's want to have a go at each other. <br>
More nutters have popped each other off due to religion than anyone dare count.<br>
<br>
Even the yanks (and mad Tony) want to teach creationism in schools - what is this world coming too? The world was not created coz some all seeing thingy doodar said what shall I do today, I know I'll create a few things - why didn't it buy a jigsaw, or pop out to a movie!<br>
<br>
Anyway - like the chap asked in Viz - "Did anyone else feel that Mel Gibson's remake of the classic Life of<br>
Brian wasn't anywhere near as funny as the original?"<br>
<br>


<p>Ben<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.dollysprint.com">www.dollysprint.com</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--></p><i></i>

[redrichie]

For those of you who wish to see what all the fuss is about:<br>
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the comics in their entirety are here. Linked because I don't want to cause offence to anyone. If you don't want to see them don't click. (borrowed from a BarryBoys member, we do have serious discussions on there too, it's not all about crap cars):<br>
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So there you have it. Obviously something to cause reactions like this ripped from here: <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/ ... <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>
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Yup, tongue firmly in cheek here. Carry on gents.

<p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p206.ezboard.com/bthetriumphdolo ... drichie</A> at: 3/2/06 2:32 pm<br></i>

[Jon Tilson]

to out largely protestant and tolerant Christian heritage Ben you are allowed to be an atheist and rant accordingly (if somewhat ignorantly) in peace and security.<br>
<br>
Regretably in other parts of the world where that isnt the case you would not be...<br>
<br>
That alone is enough to make anyone think...<br>
<br>
Jonners

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[SprintMWU773V]

Don't understand the fuss over all this, they were published last October. People should learn to laugh about things, hard to believe Life Of Brian was actually banned in some parts. <br>
<br>
If anyone has ever been to Tunisia they will understand how out of touch with the rest of ther world many other relgious countries are. Officially they are an Islamic country but they really don't give a damn most of them. They realised 30 years ago that there time would be better spent promoting toursim and business in the area rather than ranting on about something that happened a long time ago if at all (like the bible)

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[dollybird72]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and thankfully, in this country we can exercise our right to be vocal about it; mind you, don't know how much longer it will be before Tony and his team of do-gooders put a stop to that.<br>
<br>
A 'religious' person is one who adheres to religion in belief and practice. 'Religion' is mans' slant on how God wants us to live our life. For example, the Church of England used to be of the belief that only persons who had been baptised could take communion when infact, in the Bible, Jesus asks people to "do it (communion) often" and there is no mention of the former. Religious people are more interested in their rituals and abiding by man made rules than they are in their relationship with God.<br>
<br>
As for the Bible, there is a lot theological and historial proof that what was written in the Bible and the existence of Jesus is in fact true. Think of it this way, do you doubt the existence of Tutenkhamun or Alexander the Great? If not, why not?<br>
<br>
Well Ben, I don't know if they have Dolomites in the next life but I guess you will never find out! <br>
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Totally agree with your point on it only being a comic, seems like any excuse these days to incite racial and 'religious' hatred. Thank you for making that point - it has certainly stirred up quite a debate!<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END-->

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[bodgerben]

Too true - as the victor in any dispute has the right to re-write history as they feel fit we now have a load of old rubbish and superstition that is thinly veiled as religion - Christ's birth date fortunately moved to a pagan festival to keep the primatives happy, new religions taking over old religions practices.<br>
<br>
Tis nothing more than a load of old bollocks, if you excuse my french, but back to the towel heads getting all upset over some bloody comic, then standing up in the middle of london shouting death to the uk - that maybe is just a bit too tolerant, maybe we should lock them up, hmmm maybe not, just deport them if they don't pledge to protect the Queen (God save her, coz no one else will, bloody unpatriotic lot).<br>
<br>
As a person who believes the way to a good discussion is to say - There is no god - discuss! - This has been a prime example of free speech.<br>
<br>
Anyway - bring back hanging, castrate sex ofenders and chop off the hands of thieves - hold on maybe I better move to one of those less tolerant countries, or maybe not.<br>
<br>
I've got to arrange the collection of an engine, I was thinking Sunday, shall I arrange that for before or after church!<br>
<br>


<p>Ben<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.dollysprint.com">www.dollysprint.com</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--></p><i></i>

[alun n]

Freedom of speech? <br>
(Self centred) human rights?<br>
I will do just what I bloody well want/like mentality?<br>
<br>
There is a very thin line between all of the above and the necessary respect which needs to be shown to others in a civilisation; a quality that 'mad tone' and his cronies would seemingly like to expel from our society.<br>
<br>
The fact as I see it is we are not a "multicultural" society, we are a society where two cultures struggle to live side by side. Most of this is because of ignorance, sadly most of which can be laid at the feet of the Christian/Atheist/Agnostic/Spiritual sector...yes, that's us WASPS. 'We' no longer teach our children the fundamentals and even if we chose to be atheist/agnostic/spiritual no-one can deny that Christian teachings lead to a safe and secure comfortable society...as do the teachings of Mohamed and the Quran, but differently. <br>
<br>
The Muslem society in Britain (and elsewhere) do a far better job of preparing their next generations for life; instilling them with values and discretions from which they chose their own destiny. We are currently breeding a future generation of ignorant louts.<br>
<br>
All Religeons breed fundamentalism, sadly our focus in recent years has been the fundamentalists who associate themselves with Islam. The provocation caused by these "jokes" from last October has merely served to put a bigger stick in the hole of these 'fundamentalists' by offending one of their basic tenets. The cartoonist had no respect for Islam by creating these images and was probably ignorant to how offensive his images would be viewed. Ignorance is no justification...<br>
<br>
Two of the biggest 'Christian' fundamentalists at the moment are those two "leaders" who are trying in vain to impose democracy on an historic culture which doesn't function in that manner and operated quite nicely thank you very much before they started. Going back 15 years and more the 'dictator' they are currently taking to his death through propaganda and half truth was supported by us as an ally as it suited us then. The argument that he had killing fields and ruled with tyrranny no longer holds true; he kept the peace (in his own way), his subjects were not killing each other in tens of thousands as they have and still are, and our soldiers were not being slaughtered in an attempt to keep a futile and non existant peace. Despite his publicly held, well thumbed paperback copy of the Quran (I wonder how long it took alastair cambell to get it to look like this?) this is because 'he' does not understand the people they are trying to herd into a completely alien way of life.<br>
<br>
How can a democracy be a true democracy if it has been installed by force?<br>
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I digress.<br>
<br>
The basic resentment of these "jokes" is that it has ignored the writings that images of Mohamed are simply not allowed by the Faith. Who are we to disrespect this? They have survived for centuaries with this tenet intact; it is very similar to the Christian commandment regarding graven images. Sadly western culture is now all about idolotry, greed, the coverting of material wealth and goods...etc. Because our 'culture' has forsaken its basic teachings it is now very obvious to those Faiths which have kept their's, the result of lowering of standards and normalisation of the perverse and decadent. Ambivalence and tolerance breeds acceptance, acceptance breeds acceptable normality...and we excuse ourselves by calling it 'progress'!<br>
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I am not surprised at the outcry; I can sympathise with their grief, but do not in any way condone the violence and aggression that this sequence of events has caused. The "jokes" have added fuel to the fire of the Fundamentalists and has no doubt swelled their numbers by converting some of the undecided, and strengthened the resolve of those already caught up in the hatred.<br>
<br>
It is this ignorance and disrespect which causes religeous wars, not religeon per se.<br>
<br>
My local experiece; picture this: Broad Street Birmingham (well any main entertainment zone in UK cities, not to be found outside of the UK unless its a Brit holiday spot), most nights of the week is filled with drunken louts filled with alcohol fuelled aggression, resentment and dissatisfaction. Shouting, peacocking, arrogance leading to fighting, litter, vomitting in the street, comotose young girls with very little clothing falling asleep in doorways at 2am. A permissive, decadent society 'having fun'. Several thousand young people so full of self importance they have no self respect left, let alone respect for anyone different or not joining in. This spectacle is viewed by several hunded taxi drivers who have the unenviable task of ferrying these people home; many of these taxi drivers are Muslim. No doubt many of these journeys are filled with 'banter', vitriol, religeous 'joking' and downright racism that would embarrass most folk who contribute to this board. Why, just why I ask would any self respecting and peace loving Muslim want to 'integrate' into this? Get real Tony, get a backbone, get something done.<br>
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I reiterate, not a 'multicultural' society at all, but two separate ones living in conflict.<br>
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Where's my passport?

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[bodgerben]

Well Jonners I think this little discussion has answered that, I've not had a pop at one religion, I've had a pop at them all, and I've not had one derogatory remark (apart from the ignorant bit which I'm too ignorant to be insulted by, oh and maybe the next life stuff which I don't care about). I know I didn't get onto Zim, but there is always the next time.<br>
Draw your own conclusions.<br>
Alun - good points - Jonners original point was (I think)- Do you believe the press this morning, on the one had we have some nutters threating the UK over a bloody comic, and on the other we have some other nutters who are suposedly pro UK who are the worst of the worst, all the while we've been paying (with lives) for a silly war, whilst some more nutters in Zim get away with robery and murder.<br>
This morning I thought I may stir up this discussion a bit, but I've proved to myself that you lot are very tolerant, and maybe just don't care, or do and cannot be bothered to stand up for your views even when people rant against them. <br>
I do believe that the root of all evil is religion, and although there are many good people in one faith you will always have the nutters...<br>
But that does appear to be the English way - we just don't care, people insult us, we don't care, they take our jobs we don't care, we make rubbish goods, we don't care, and the press talk even more rubbish than me, and we don't care.

<p>Ben<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.dollysprint.com">www.dollysprint.com</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--></p><i></i>

[george]

it's plain to see that muslims are indoctrinated with their<br>
religon at a young age as seeen at the many "schools "<br>
in pakistan etc where they are seen rocking back and for reciting ? teaching them tolerance !!!!! i think not<br>
but on the other hand you have "christians" in the usa who belive that the planet earth has existed for a few thuosand years no mater what the scientific evidence to date points to and are excited by sermons to the point of collapse in religous fervour<br>
you pays your money and takes your choice

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[alun n]

...walking along the street one day you find a fine gold pocketwatch with sophisticated movement and intricate tooling. You would naturally wonder at the skill of the person who made it wouldn't you? (after, like me of course, thinking what a bloody lucky find!)

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[alun n]

...they never seem to wear suits but can always lay their hands on one for the burning effigy...<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :| --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... ferent.gif ALT=":|"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br>
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...and can you get Danish flags in Kabul...perhaps there is a market for a flags of the nations mail order facility for just such occasions.<br>
<br>


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[george]

we have united flag makers here in swansea make flags for every where perhaps they have a contract with osma himself .......<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :lol --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /laugh.gif ALT=":lol"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> if you need a afgan , iraqi one i'm sure there is stock there

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[redrichie]

You should visit Belfast. I've always said that when I leave the Army I should open up a flag factory in NI. Thats a nice area to make money from division.<br>
<br>
Very interesting Alun by the way, I haven't considered it from that point of view.<br>


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[1300dolly]

Good points of views there, but whatever your belive ect it seem that in our modern understanding world we all have the freedom of speech, to do what we please and where we please to do it as long as we don't upset anyone in fear of a backlash from some goverment funded group that wasn't heard of untill yesterday "quick tony i need 37million of our english sorry british euros to set up a 'we are going to sue you for saying that' self help group"<br>
Justyn<br>
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"waiting at the bus stop for the no.11 to the funnyfarm"

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