No brakes

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2F45T4U · #1 Post by **2F45T4U** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:23 pm

How easy is it to over heat the dollies brakes and boil the brake fluid causing you to lose your brakes?! 
 
I went for a drive down some country lanes, it was only about a mile long. Then back on the road (going downhill behind a lorry which kind of seems like it contributes to it) I could feel my brakes wernt as good as they were before the lanes. then on to a small round-a-bout and then nothing! Foot to the floor and no effect <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... ns/eek.gif ALT=":eek"> . After 2 pumps more or less full power was back in the brakes, felt the wheel centre, nearest metal object to discs and you could feel some heat on them. 
 
Are the brakes that inefficeint that they over heat easily or do I have a problem? 
 
 
Adam <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes">

alun n · #2 Post by **alun n** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:40 pm

Houston...you have a problem!

1973 Dolomite Sprint 
1974 Dolomite Sprint 
1977 Dolomite Sprint (Pageant) 
1977 Dolomite Sprint (White) 
1979 Dolomite Sprint 
1979 Dolomite 1850HL 
1980 Dolomite 1500HL 
1998 Lotus Elise 
1999 Alfa Romeo 166 2.5 V6 
1999 Alfa Romeo 166 3.0 V6 (Didn't sell, still for sale!)

DailySprinter · #3 Post by **DailySprinter** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:45 pm

I agree with the last comment. The brakes were crap, but not as bad as u describe. Consider modifying them if you are stripping down the brakes, can get them as good as modern car

davepoth · #4 Post by **davepoth** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:22 pm

I had a similar experience in a friend's MGB I was driving, three big lads (which is great fun) going down a steep and long hill following a slow car a little bit too fast for engine braking in first. 
 
The pedal was within an inch of the floor by the bottom, and on top of the brake fade it turned out the master cylinder seal was shagged, which made matters a little more dangerous. Might be worth a look. 
 
If you're lucky I'll tell you all about the time I drove round san francisco in an automatic with no brakes.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... lasses.gif ALT="8)">

Edited by: <A HREF=http://p206.ezboard.com/bthetriumphdolo ... avepoth</A> at: 26/9/05 4:24 pm

mbellinger · #5 Post by **mbellinger** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:33 pm

If you boil the brake fluid you will hear it very clearly, both as a hissing noise (like a puncture) at every wheel, and at the fluid reservoir, where you will physically see the fluid bubbling.

Martin 
 
1968 Triumph 1300FWD 
2002 BMW 320d 
2002 Renault Scenic

2F45T4U · #6 Post by **2F45T4U** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:34 pm

Awww I hate spending money <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... ns/mad.gif ALT=">:"> 
 
 
Dave now that sounds like a story I want to hear! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /happy.gif ALT=":D"> 
 
 
 
Adam

2F45T4U · #7 Post by **2F45T4U** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:38 pm

No hissing. What could it be? 
 
After an hour and a half rest they were fine again and didnt suffer all the way back home... any ideas <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... ohwell.gif ALT=":"> 
 
There were 4 of us in my car by the way. 
 
 
 
Adam

davepoth · #8 Post by **davepoth** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:46 pm

Four in a car down a long hill behind a slow moving truck is a pretty good recipe for cooking the brakes. Even if the fluid didn't boil the pads lose effectiveness when they overheat.

george · #9 Post by **george** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:42 pm

how long since the fluid was changed 
brake fluid i hydroscopic (think thats the spelling) 
it absorbs water so if it aint been changed maybe nows the time

dollyboy · #10 Post by **dollyboy** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:51 pm

how much is left on the pads and how thick are the discs? 
 
is the wear even? 
 
can you drive at about 20mph, take your hands off the wheel on a piece of road with no visible camber and stop in a straight (ish) line? 
 
<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /frown.gif ALT=":("> 
 
If what you're saying is real as opposed to you being off your head on mushrooms at the time, I reckon lots of experimentation required to find the root of the problem, unless you're very lucky. Down right dangerous I'd say. I bet you can guess what my answer is ?! 
 
Well here it is anyway - Stop driving the car on the road until you've sorted it. Dismantle the lot, including callipers. Clean it all with serious love. New fluid, new pads, new discs, new seals. Also, braided hoses. Job done. Cant fail. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/wink.gif ALT=";)"> 
 
Thats what I'd do in your position anyway. 
 
Duff brakes put the willies up me. I had a bad brake experience on my bike once, luckily only going slowly at the time. They work on the same priniciple as any other hydraulic brake system with callipers, discs etc, nothing special, except the front and rear brakes are separate circuits altogether. 
 
25mph - ish, approaching junction on housing estate. plenty miles already covered, no problem noticed. Pulled brake lever, nothing. pulled harder, nothing. brake lever against handlebar, nothing else to do, stomp on back brake, back wheel locked, bike stalled, left foot down, stopped J I T. 20 minutes earlier I was doing about 140 with a couple a couple of mates. Completely baffled me... pumped lever a few more times, braking recovered. Absolutely bizarre. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /frown.gif ALT=":("> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... ns/eek.gif ALT=":eek"> 
 
back home, front wheel out, front brake off (pads only couple of months old, didnt replace), drained, thoroughly cleaned and checked, reassembled, new fluid, bled, job done, never had problem again, confidence returned... after about a month! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... ohwell.gif ALT=":"> 
 
Odd things, brakes... only takes one bad experience like that and you're in a ditch, buddy, hopefully without a few small kids stuck in your rad. 
 
<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... ferent.gif ALT=":|">

Edited by: <A HREF=http://p206.ezboard.com/bthetriumphdolo ... ollyboy</A> at: 26/9/05 5:54 pm

Jon Tilson · #11 Post by **Jon Tilson** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:55 pm

Dollies like most Triumphs are marginally braked. I dont now why but no Triumph Ive ever owned stops like a P6 or Jag, which are if anything overbraked, well the P6 is anyway...4 big disks and a big servo 2. Never had any fade with that. Spose you expect it with an XJ6 with 2 tons to stop form 140 mph. 
Anyway the Dolly has poxy small pads and they are probably moprod rubbish to boot. Add that to a dose of old fluid, 4 exuberent lads and some welsh hills and you have a recipe for fade city and potential disaster. 
Ive boiled the fluid on one of mine which had green stuff old thin pads and I hadnt changed the fluid yet. Its not nice suddenly having no brakes! 
What you can do is....check the pads...check the disks. If the disks look thin and rusty round the outside then change them soon. Make sure both pistons are fully operational. Sometimes one on each side sticks. The frightening thing is it will still pass the Mot like this. Only one pad is doing any work! More overheat and boil fluid time. 
Pads- well see if you can track down Mintex NOS ones. 
The fluid should be completely renewed every 2 years at the latest unless you change to silicon fluid. Ive done this on 2 of mine but its a PITA as everything rubbber needs changing. You cant or wont want to afford it either. 
Jon

mbellinger · #12 Post by **mbellinger** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:23 pm

Adam, 
 
This is all good sound advice. You will be amazed how much crud you will find in your braking system, in the cylinders, calipers and pipework generally. You will also be amazed at the difference afterward in both feel and response. It is an investment of time rather than money as, whilst you should replace anything at all that looks remotely knackered or worn, you will be very unlucky if that ends up being the entire system. The rest you can clean lovingly and re-fit, and then fill with lovely new fluid. It is also time worth investing as it could save yours or someone elses life. 
 
There is little point in getting your car going like a rocket if it won't stop, literally. 
 
No brakes equals no fun at all.

Martin 
 
1968 Triumph 1300FWD 
2002 BMW 320d 
2002 Renault Scenic

Toledo Man · #13 Post by **Toledo Man** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:43 pm

I echo everybody's comments. 
 
Brakes are something that you can't afford to compromise on. Adam, get that fluid changed and check everything else! 
 
Also did any of you know that the standard front brakes were the same across the board from the Toledo right up to the Sprint? Toledo brakes aren't too clever at times!

2F45T4U · #14 Post by **2F45T4U** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:23 pm

Ill do the fluid tommorow. Checked the pads when I had the car and there was about 10mm on them so I was happy. The car will pull the the right hand side on braking, but its a bit intermitant, itll only do that 10% of the time. I know that its the front right causing this as in the wet at very low speeds its locked up on its own before <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... ns/eek.gif ALT=":eek"> 
 
I am at a real low point as far as money is concerned at the mo. got my MOT AND tax in less than a month! Im on a mere £97 a week and have to pay my parents £150 a month due to them paying for my insurance on there credit card. Im hoping its the fluid that has moisture in it and that boiled causing the 0 effect pedal for my wallets sake at least! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /frown.gif ALT=":("> 
 
 
 
Adam

davepoth · #15 Post by **davepoth** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:26 pm

How were the front brakes on the 1300? you stil have all the bits, so it might be worth seeing if anything on it is in better nick.

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