Air Filters and Engine Performance

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Leeds Sprint · #1 Post by **Leeds Sprint** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:56 pm

Hello All 
 
My 1850 has the standard air cleaner box. I understand that some performace increase can be expected by switching to K&N type air filter boxes. Is this true? What type of performance increase and how much. Are they worth it? 
 
Also can I just put them on the car, or do the carbs need adjusting? 
 
Thanks 
 
Chris

mr speedy · #2 Post by **mr speedy** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:19 pm

You will need to adjust the mixture on the carbs at least, if not re-jet. Probably won't make a huge difference on a standard exhaust tho'!

Leeds Sprint · #3 Post by **Leeds Sprint** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:36 pm

There is an exhaust on the Rimmer Brothers web site called the "Sports System" 
 
<a href="http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/cgi-bin/rim ... e/exhausts" target="top">www.rimmerbros.co.uk/cgi-bin/rimmer?fin ...  
 
<img src="http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/dolomite/im ... 1096ss.jpg" style="border:0;"/> 
 
Is this a reccomended replacement? 
 
How does this exhust differ from the standard setup? What kind of performance increase can I expect? 
 
My dolomite has pretty old stainless exhaust. It comes with a receipt from a previous owner showing it to be almost 20 years old. It's not rusting really, but all the boxes and pipes have taken a battering over the years. So an exhaust replacement might be worth considering. 
 
Thanks 
 
Chris

Edited by: <A HREF=http://p206.ezboard.com/bthetriumphdolo ... ckinson</A> at: 14/8/06 10:52 pm

2F45T4U · #4 Post by **2F45T4U** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:09 pm

Yer you can get a different exhaust. The Rimmer brothers one. 
 
Don't know what it does for performance but it does sound nice. I also got K nd N styleee filters and they make the car sound nicer again. 
 
I've got a 2 ltr 8 valve with rimmer brothers sports exhaust with collapsed baffles in the centre silencer and two chav filters. 
 
Richards got a 2ltr 16 valve with the same exhaust but a different manufacturer (so it hasn't collapsed!) and standard filters. Mine sounds alot nicer <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"> Well it did, he took the baffling out the back silencer <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> 
 
 
 
 
So yes get one! and some nicer air filters. You sound like your going faster <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"> 
 
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goRYv1LS ...  
 
The camera does add a touch of roar to it but it does sound nice.

Edited by: <A HREF=http://p206.ezboard.com/bthetriumphdolo ... 2F45T4U</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b5 ... bNW7hu4ZtQ" BORDER=0> at: 14/8/06 11:13 pm

Jon Tilson · #5 Post by **Jon Tilson** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:44 pm

Both are a waste of time... 
The K+N's mess up the high rpm mixture which means you will have to rejet to suite...rolling road and someone who knows is your only chance of getting it right, which will cost you at least fifty quid, assuming you can find a non charlatan with a good stock of needles. How long will it take to get that back? And its noiser...dolomites are supposed to be refined. 
The exhaust is a pain in the arse to fit...and has an absoluteley crap boot floor mounting. To do it properly you have to take out the tank, reinforce the floor underneath and drill some holes and make a captive nut. 
 
Its just worth it on a Sprint maybe, but I'd keep the std setup on that too next time... 
On an 1850 its a no brainer. Stay standard. 
 
Jonners

2F45T4U · #6 Post by **2F45T4U** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:50 pm

My Dolomite isn't refined. It's a rally car that has been used by granny for the past 29 years <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol">

tinweevil · #7 Post by **tinweevil** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:06 am

If you attend to the breathing on both sides of the engine together and get it set up properly you will free some horses. 
 
The sports kit is an improvement over standard but as jonners says it's a bar steward to fit and the rear mount is sheeeeeeite! It is noisier too but I don't find it at all intrusive. 
 
Dunno what sort of airbox the 1850 has, the sprint one is pretty good tho. I think the sprint box with a (rare/expensive) K&N element and cold air tubes is the best arrangement. I don't like K&N pancakes as they result in the engine sucking hot and therefore less oxygen rich air. 
 
Look at the carbs first, if they are worn you'll be losing more compared to standard than those mods will gain. 
 
If you've the motivation and the budget a sensible and very interesting approach would be: 
1 - rolling road session to get a baseline, you'll probably be down double digits on factory spec, most old cars are. 
2 - Carb overhaul (http://www.su-carbs.co.uk). 
3 - Head inspection, decoke and overhaul including new cam if neccessary. 
4 - Dizzy overhaul. 
5 - Full service. 
6 - Rolling road session, should now give factory figures. 
7 - Exhaust, airfilter and leccy ignition. 
8 - Rolling road session, you'll be up on standard don't ask me to put a figure on how much! Bet it's less that you gain in 1-6. Add a mild cam to step 7 and you'll be up around as much as you were down at 1. 
 
Best of luck finding a rolling road with equipment new enough to be believable & repeatable and staff old enough to know what a carburettor is for. 
 
Julian

1978 <a href="http://www.triumphowners.com/704">Dolomite Sprint</a> Blue, a bit tetley. - Current daily drive. 
1972 <a href="http://www.triumphowners.com/754">Spitfire IV</a> No name, in bits. 
1968 <a href="http://www.triumphowners.com/705">GT6 II</a> Little blue, nice! 
1973 <a href="http://www.triumphowners.com/755">Dolomite Sprint</a> VA41, seriously tetley. 
1980 <a href="http://www.triumphowners.com/864">Dolomite 1500HL</a> Orange, really quite tidy.

davepoth · #8 Post by **davepoth** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:33 am

The mount on my sports exhaust ripped through the boot floor of my car. Twice. Always carry a wire coathanger around for such emergencies. 
 
In the end I gave up and bodged something a bit more sporty using 2" pipe and 2 1/2" OD silencers. Refined it isn't.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"> 
 
Also, The K&Ns from Rimmers are not the biggest you can fit to a sprint. I fitted a set that are 1" deeper than those, which I'm pretty sure gives a bigger filter area than the standard panel filter. It needed richer needles afterwards, which I suppose means it was sucking more air.

LewisK · #9 Post by **LewisK** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:41 pm

With the 1850 I'd be tempted to just go for electronic ignition, decent leads and plugs and then get it rolling road tuned by someone who knows what they're doing - getting a car properly timed up can make quite a difference in itself. 
 
Saying that, ram pipes, big deep K&N's and an air feed set up to keep them refreshed, along with slightly richer needles can make it a little more livelier <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> I ran on rampipes and socks for a while, did make it noisier, at least <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> 
 
<img src="http://www.antchip.com/carbs/20.jpg"/> 
 
<img src="http://www.antchip.com/carbs/19.jpg"/> 
 
Oh - get an Aldon Flamethrower coil, excellent piece of kit. Made starting on mine much easier (although I may have started with a duff coil) and improved through the range running. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"> 
 

<img src="http://www.antchip.com/sig2.jpg"/> 
Crazy! I mean like so many positive waves, we can't lose! You're on!

Leeds Sprint · #10 Post by **Leeds Sprint** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:52 pm

I've seen Dolomites with dual exhaust pipes. Are these all likely to be custom made, or is there a supplier of Dolomite exhausts with two tail pipes? 
 
Lewis,.... your induction kit looks the business. Do those sock type filters provide simmilar filtration to the standard cartridge type? Or do you just end up sucking loads of junk in? 
 
Many people have mentioned the need to change carb needles. Are there not any induction kit packages that come with the appropriate carb needles? 
 
Chris

LewisK · #11 Post by **LewisK** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:59 pm

The socks are totally useless <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> But they did filter fairly well....not as good as an OEM filter or a proper K&N/Green cotton oiled filter. 
 
Hacking on a Sprint airbox (need to make up a new back panel) with a flat K&N panel and small bellmouths could be a good upgrade, especially with cool air intake hosing ducted towards the front as original <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> 
 
Needles will have to be changed to suit the car but the Rimmers K&Ns can be supplied with appropriate needles. Needles are only about 6 quid each from the right place. 
 
Dual exhaust pipes - well, depends what you mean. Sprints had twin exits as standard: 
 
<img src="http://www.triumphowners.com/uploaded/3 ...  
 
Twin pipe-backboxes (as fitted to some sports exhausts) tend to be Falcon systems......not availiable new at the moment, I think.

<img src="http://www.antchip.com/sig2.jpg"/> 
Crazy! I mean like so many positive waves, we can't lose! You're on!

MaddMart · #12 Post by **MaddMart** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:31 pm

oops!

Martin 
 
<a href="http://www.dolomitesprint.com/" target="top">www.dolomitesprint.com</a>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p206.ezboard.com/bthetriumphdolo ... addMart</A> at: 15/8/06 8:06 pm

Leeroy ORG 27R · #13 Post by **Leeroy ORG 27R** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:46 pm

Jonners, exhaust mounting going to be one of my next jobs, while the tanks out. I've got the exhaust mounting shit, sorry kit, from rimmers, are you still using the the rubber mounting. Ive seen you lot on the forum in the past even mention cotton reels. Ive got the stainless back box with twin pipes, bought some ten years ago. I take it the rubber mounting would just screw up through the underside of the body into this welded on nut? or do we have any better options?

2F45T4U · #14 Post by **2F45T4U** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:54 pm

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6 ... bNW7hu4ZtQ" style="border:0;"/> 
 
The rimmers fitting kit has this metal bracket for the back box. Bent over to hook in to the hole in the boot floor one side and bent at a 90 degree angle the other side and bolts to rear wing llip. Has a welded nut on it which accepts the cotton reel bush. I had to drill an extra hole in the bracket to get it to fit properly but if that's to much hassle maybe a Dolomite isn't the car for you <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> 
 
Only problem I've had with this is that the bolt loosend it's self and fell out. 2 minutes later with a bent paper clip fixxed it, drove it like that for a week or two <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> Once done up properly I havn't had any problems with it

mbellinger · #15 Post by **mbellinger** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:30 am

Chris, 
 
I have never owned an 1850, though I have driven several, and I did own a TR7 for some time , which has almost identical engine and induction arrangements bar the actual cubic capacity. 
 
Julian's advice is extremely good - get the standard set up spot on first and then work from there. 
 
In my experience K&N's do give a noticeable increase to any engine provided it was properly set up first. You absolutely will have to change the needles and/or jets to get maximum benefit. On my 1300 the betterment was 5 bhp (combined with a very slightly freer flowing exhaust). This does not sound much but represents about 9% on that vehicle! 
 
Much more importantly, driveability, smoothness and torque were all improved noticeably. 
 
My old TR7 ran electric ignition, a Lucas sports coil, a free flow exhaust (std manifold), K&N's and appropriate re-jetting/ re-needling of the carbs. It produced 118 bhp as opposed to the factory figure of 105 bhp. Again, drive, smoothness and torque all improved. So there are gains to be had for relatively small expense provided a methodical approach is adopted AND THE THING IS SPOT ON FIRST as Julian says (I cannot over-emphasise this point). 
 
In my experience, the bit about K&N's sucking in too much warm air is bunk - at least as far as mildly tuned road cars are confirmed. There definitely are gains to be made from a proper cold air box induction system on a very highly tuned or race engine, but really only when you are going to the nth degree as that sort of level of tuning befits. If this does concern you, it is relatively easy to rig a pice of suitable large diameter duct behind the front grille to direct ram air straight at the K&N's. 
 
The footnote to all this is that for many years I have been very fortunate to have access to a man who understands old cars, has a rolling road which I access on a buy him a drink basis, and therefore my costs are low. You will almost certainly not enjoy such benefits, so factor the cost of the rolling road sessions into your sums. I will be in that mode henceforth as my man is emigrating to Australia.....

Martin 
 
1968 Triumph 1300FWD 
1975 Triumph 1500TC Auto 
1989 Honda Civic 1300 Auto 
2006 Mondeo 2.0 Ghia X Auto 
2002 Renault Scenic

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