100 degrees F temp gauge nightmare

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mcharlish · #1 Post by **mcharlish** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 2:47 pm

Poor old car. I just took it to a classic car show here in Western Australia and it threw a bit of a fit in the temperature department. It was about 40C or 100F+ here today and the temp gauge managed to get itself just over the 3/4 mark which made for a very stressful journey home. It was only a 25 min trip but we had to have the heater on full blast to help out so it was all a bit on the warm side for everyone. 
 
I need some thoughts on fixing the cooling system ! I think the basic system is working fine - as proven by the fact that it didn't actually fail - and there is the possibility that it's just the gauge. However the heater was working very very well and the bonnet was very hot too so I think we can safely say there is an issue. 
 
My Sprint has a fast road cam but also has an oil cooler and is supposed to have a high capacity rad although I wondering whether I got sneaked a std rad instead. 
 
I'm moving the oil cooler from it's position in front of the rad to get the rad airflow back and intend to put it vertically where the horns are currently located. I'm also fitting radiator shrouds from Sprintparts which should help a bit as well. 
 
Does anybody have any other ideas? 
Does 3/4+ up the temp gauge seem likely for 100F? 
Should I try a new gauge? 
Are electric fans better or worse? 
Any thoughts on ceramic coating of the exhaust manifold? 
How does heat supposedly escape from the Dolly engine bay anyway? 
- the grilles below the windscreen are effectively sealed off from the actual engine bay so what is their purpose? 
Someone with a Nissan Turbo engine in their Dolly - sorry mate we never exchanged names - suggested a larger non-standard (Holden) radiator. Thoughts? 
I am not aware of any leaks in the cooling system and the expansion tank remains suitably full but I have found that after filling to the brim on the engine the level will drop about a cm after the engine has been run for a while. It doesn't matter how many times you top up again - it always finds this level. Thoughts? 
The engine is probably in an average state of tune. By which I mean it runs smoothly and goes OK but probably isn't in peak condition. Are there any issues on this side that would cause significantly higher running temps? 
How much of a running temp increase should I expect from having the fast road cam? 
 
Any help appreciated. I can't keep driving the car in summer in it's current condition !! 
 
Thanks, Mark

Carsreunited · #2 Post by **Carsreunited** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:30 pm

Whether my three quarters on the standard guage is the same as yours is anyones guess. I'm going to have an electronic temerature guage fitted to mine with good old fashioned numbers on it as shown here<a href="http://www.rallynuts.com/motorsport/Rac ... ge_905.asp" target="top">Temp Guage</a> 
 
At least you know where you stand rather than the 'is she gonna blow' feeling you get when you guage watch the oem instrument. 
 
Scott

Richard · #3 Post by **Richard** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 7:49 pm

I fitted a capillary water gauge - well worth it ! 
 
Try a rad from a Volvo 740. it's 55cm wide and just fits in the rad 'bay'. these may be featured in the next DM ...

Malc · #4 Post by **Malc** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 8:28 pm

Fellow club member Frank Ashton uses his 1850 for towing. He found that it ran hot when doing so. Now for the clever bit, he removed the front number plate, cut a number plate size flap where the plate normally sits (cutting sides and lower edge) hinged in forwards to make an air duct, mounted the number plate forwards on a couple of brackets below the bumper. This has the effect of exposing more of the Rad to the air flow. Frank reckons this solved the problem. It is also neat, you look at the front of his car and you know something looks a little different but you are not quite sure what, then you twig, aha, number plate, but you don't see the air duct behind it. Very clever <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/wink.gif ALT=";)">

speedracer · #5 Post by **speedracer** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:36 am

Mark, 
 
This might help: 
<a href="http://www.sprintparts.triumphowners.co ...  
 
I plan to try this myself if i think i can do it without scratching too much paint around the front end. I like Malc's idea too... 
 
Here's a thought - is there any reason why holes can't be drilled into the top of the firewall bit into the grilled area to let the hot air out? 
 
Have you considered bonnet louvers? 
 
speedracer

<a href="http://www.triumphowners.com/2">1975 Dolly Sprint</a>

Jon Tilson · #6 Post by **Jon Tilson** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:30 am

Under no circumstances should the firewall be cut to let heat out of the VENTILATION INLET unless you want to risk serious carbon monoxide poisoning. The rubber seasl are there for a very good reason. Where did you think the air to the eyeball vents and heater comes from... 
Bonnet louvres may help....especially above the exhaust manifold side and make sure your engine has a cold air inlet pipe too. 
100 F is at the upper end for safe Sprint running I reckon anyway. Dont forget they werent sold in the US market.... 
Jonners

Mark Larmour · #7 Post by **Mark Larmour** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:28 pm

The most important thing is that the motor holds the water. I have run race motors up to 110c in hot weather and as long as we did not loose coolant all was sweet. 
 
We also use a water pressure gauge which will show if the cooling system is loosing water (pressure) which is often more useful than the temperature gauge. If the motor hold pressure (and therefore water) the motor will usually cope OK, if it looses the water it has therefore lost it cooling median. 
 
Welcome to Australian summers and the fun with running a car that was designed for English winters. (note how little of the radiator has direct air flow from the grille area)

<a href="http://www.sprintparts.triumphowners.com">SPRINTPARTS</a>

mcharlish · #8 Post by **mcharlish** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:40 pm

Thanks for the thoughts everybody. A few responses : 
 
1) bonnet louvres would do it but I'm not keen on the look. Jon T - take your point on the vent grille space, obviously the heat has affected the brain as well....... 
 
2) the offical Leyland mod is interesting - especially the bit about fitting air-conditioning - but sounds a bit like an act of last resort esp. given the easier to conceal Frank AShton mod. 
 
3) a feature on the Volvo rad would be interesting - get it in the next DM I say !! Where I am now it may be more sensible to go with a local Holden unit though. Volve spare parts might be a few $$$ here 
 
4) re Scott's link to the temp gauge - is this a direct replacement fit and do you need a special sender unit? 
 
5) which makes me also wonder what do we know about the reliability of the sender units......? 
 
6) I really like the Frank Ashton idea. Does he appear online here? I'm wondering whether he has any decent photos of the finished result? My understanding of the description is that the actual front panel material is bent along the top edge of a rectangle once the bottom edge and two sides are cut thereby forming a downward facing air scoop ? Can someone get hold of Frank if he doesn't appear here and find out about some photos? 
 
7) Mark L - I don't think the car loses water apart from the weird !! FYI The courier did try and deliver the shrouds on Fri but no-one was in; they said they'd be back today but weren't. There's no contact number for them so ....?? 
 
<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... lasses.gif ALT="8)"> How do you tell a competition rad from a normal one? 
 
9) if anybody has further thoughts re electric fans, state of tune or ceramic manifold coatings please advise. 
 
Thanks 
 
Mark

alun n · #9 Post by **alun n** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:19 pm

The Jensen Owners Club undertook some serious research regarding where heat could be lost from the Interceptor engine bay and concluded that vents along the back edge of the bonnet under the windscreen area were the only effective place; the factory vented bonnets on the SP and late Series III like mine were next to useless! Rather than messing around with their cars appearance (and the fact that a bonnet skin costs £500) many owners armed with this knowledge simply opt for running the car in hot weather with the bonnet propped open a la Sunbeam Tiger style (only works with forward opening bonnets) and then when temperature drops revert to original. 
 
Only downside is in UK when you stop you get condensation on the windscreen.....on the outside!

Carsreunited · #10 Post by **Carsreunited** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:23 pm

Thats what you call character!

80sprint · #11 Post by **80sprint** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:20 pm

Mark 
 
Check the gauge first it's the easiest option before major work. I did a lot of work for nothing only to find the gauge was not working correctly. 
Is the expansion tank throwing the water out of the overflow ? 
 
Mike

Dave · #12 Post by **Dave** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:52 pm

is normally at the foot of the windscreen, after all thats where the air builds up, good place to pull carb air from but not to dump it air will tend to flow in not out! vents would be best along the front edge where the pressure is low. Imagine the air breaking over the front of the car its forced up and away from the body then fkows along the rear half of the bonnet until it hits the screen. I dont know if the pressure differnces would make all that much difference though<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /smile.gif ALT=":)"> anyone got an air pressure meter?

Dave · #13 Post by **Dave** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:54 pm

thinking about it you could test by opening the rear of the bonnet a bit and taping some wooll tufts along the edge,drive along and see what happens, if they dissappear into the bay theres the answer!

mcharlish · #14 Post by **mcharlish** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 2:14 pm

I'm not aware of the expansion tank dumping water out of the overflow. Is a replacement gauge a direct fit - physically and electrically? 
 
M

Malc · #15 Post by **Malc** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:21 pm

Frank is one of our 'more senior citizen' members so I doubt that he is 'on line' but you never know. I'm sure he will be on the show circuit with his motor, poss Gaydon at end May, i'll take my Digital Camera and get some photo's for you. However, you have the jist of it, a long rectangular flap that allows air to the bottom part of the Rad, thus allowing the cooolant a bit more cooling b4 it gets sucked back into the block.

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100 degrees F temp gauge nightmare

100 degrees F temp gauge nightmare

Re: 100 degrees F temp gauge nightmare

Rad

Too Hot To Handle

Re: Too Hot To Handle

You can tell by the smelll

Hot Running

Re: Hot Running

Re: Hot Running

Ahh

100F

high pressure area

testing

Re: testing

Frank's Mod

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