Bruce the FWD
Re: Bruce the FWD
I have replaced that earth strap but to no effect. If the engine earth was smoking I may not see it as im doing this alone and when the starters turning im in the car. t
One thing that I have noticed is that I dont seem to be able to push the points all the way down onto their pivot post so maybe thats where the problem is. I may try cleaning up the new rotor arm incase that has been film coated as well
One thing that I have noticed is that I dont seem to be able to push the points all the way down onto their pivot post so maybe thats where the problem is. I may try cleaning up the new rotor arm incase that has been film coated as well
Re: Bruce the FWD
Any film on the rotor arm isn't going to get in the way of the 10kV or so that it gets hit with when a spark comes.
As for the points, if they're not fitting together properly then of course you'll have problems. If they're not lined up and parallel to each other when they close the contact area is reduced, which creates increased resistance. Increased resistance = less current and bad spark.
Note that the amount of resistance needed to screw it all up is not measurable with an ohmeter. 0.05 ohms will lose you a 1/4 volt or so and digi meters may read down to 0.1 ohms but they're not reliable at such low values.
As for the points, if they're not fitting together properly then of course you'll have problems. If they're not lined up and parallel to each other when they close the contact area is reduced, which creates increased resistance. Increased resistance = less current and bad spark.
Note that the amount of resistance needed to screw it all up is not measurable with an ohmeter. 0.05 ohms will lose you a 1/4 volt or so and digi meters may read down to 0.1 ohms but they're not reliable at such low values.
Re: Bruce the FWD
the contact faces meet full face on what I meant is that the assembly doesn't seem to go all the way down to the base plate on the pivot post thus is probs not getting a brilliant contact. More attacking with sandpaper tomorrow untill it will
Re: Bruce the FWD
Now you've lost me.
Are you saying that the whole contact set is sitting with a gap between it and the distributor base plate, or are you saying that the moving contact doesn't go all the way down on the post?
If you mean the first then you've got major points-fitting problems that, without seeing it, I honestly can't imagine what's wrong.
If you mean the second then the moving contact isn't supposed to go right down. It has an insulated bush at its pivot which extends slightly out the top and bottom of the arm. If it went all the way down then you'd have permanently shorted points and no chance at all of a spark.
Are you saying that the whole contact set is sitting with a gap between it and the distributor base plate, or are you saying that the moving contact doesn't go all the way down on the post?
If you mean the first then you've got major points-fitting problems that, without seeing it, I honestly can't imagine what's wrong.
If you mean the second then the moving contact isn't supposed to go right down. It has an insulated bush at its pivot which extends slightly out the top and bottom of the arm. If it went all the way down then you'd have permanently shorted points and no chance at all of a spark.
Re: Bruce the FWD
You've just described what would happen if you tried to fit 25/23D points to a 45/43D distributor, but I assume that you must have had it running with the same type before now, most odd though but.Pauldaf44 wrote:the contact faces meet full face on what I meant is that the assembly doesn't seem to go all the way down to the base plate on the pivot post thus is probs not getting a brilliant contact. More attacking with sandpaper tomorrow untill it will

Re: Bruce the FWD
Tried again today. Tried starting with the air filter removed still nothing. Cleaned the contacts again. Checked all the wiring.
Anyway taken a load of pics to see if theres something obvious that im missing

Internals of dizzy cap.

side on view of dizzy shows what I was saying about the points not seating properly. I just cant make them

Shows wiring connections

Dizzy cap closed all HT leads connected as says in book

Showing internals of carb fuel residue visible and smellable.

Close up shows minor damage around edge of diaphragm.

Diaphragm in place and air filter tempoairly removed to aid airflow.
Oh I also did the timing today which was 5 degrees out now set as the book says to 10 degrees before TDC
Anyway taken a load of pics to see if theres something obvious that im missing

Internals of dizzy cap.

side on view of dizzy shows what I was saying about the points not seating properly. I just cant make them

Shows wiring connections

Dizzy cap closed all HT leads connected as says in book

Showing internals of carb fuel residue visible and smellable.

Close up shows minor damage around edge of diaphragm.

Diaphragm in place and air filter tempoairly removed to aid airflow.
Oh I also did the timing today which was 5 degrees out now set as the book says to 10 degrees before TDC
Re: Bruce the FWD
Nothing obvious jumps out in those photos apart from the lack of a locating post coming up through the pivot of the points - I take it there's a short post on yours that doesn't show above the top of the points?
As for the rest:
Turn engine until the points are closed.
Remove the king lead from the centre of the distributor cap and put a spare spark plug in the end of the lead. Place the plug so that its metal body is touching an earth.
Remove the black wire from the distributor connection.
Turn on the ignition and touch that wire to the distributor body, then remove it. you should see a decent spark at the plug as you break the connection.
Do the same again, but this time touching the wire to the distributor spade connection (the one you took it off). You should get a spark again, similar to the one you got first time. If you get no spark there is a break in the points or the wiring inside the distributor. If you get a weak spark, then there is resistance in the points or the wiring inside the distributor.
Reconnect the spade terminal and open the points slightly (about the same as they open in use) using a screwdriver between the plastic block and the distributor shaft. Again, you should get a nice spark. If not then suspect the contact at the points themselves or the condenser.
Now turn the engine until the points are open.
Repeat the test on the spade terminal and this time you should get no spark. If you do get a spark this time then the points or the wiring inside the distributor is shorting to earth. Best bet on that would be strands of one of those crimped connections on the black wire to the points touching the body or the base-plate, or the white plastic insulators on the points connection being assembled wrong so that there's a permanent earth throught the connection post.
* Edit to add: how did you do the timing with no spark happening? If you relied on the points visually opening then it'll probably be too far retarded now because the gap needed to break the circuit is less than you'll see by eye.
As for the rest:
Turn engine until the points are closed.
Remove the king lead from the centre of the distributor cap and put a spare spark plug in the end of the lead. Place the plug so that its metal body is touching an earth.
Remove the black wire from the distributor connection.
Turn on the ignition and touch that wire to the distributor body, then remove it. you should see a decent spark at the plug as you break the connection.
Do the same again, but this time touching the wire to the distributor spade connection (the one you took it off). You should get a spark again, similar to the one you got first time. If you get no spark there is a break in the points or the wiring inside the distributor. If you get a weak spark, then there is resistance in the points or the wiring inside the distributor.
Reconnect the spade terminal and open the points slightly (about the same as they open in use) using a screwdriver between the plastic block and the distributor shaft. Again, you should get a nice spark. If not then suspect the contact at the points themselves or the condenser.
Now turn the engine until the points are open.
Repeat the test on the spade terminal and this time you should get no spark. If you do get a spark this time then the points or the wiring inside the distributor is shorting to earth. Best bet on that would be strands of one of those crimped connections on the black wire to the points touching the body or the base-plate, or the white plastic insulators on the points connection being assembled wrong so that there's a permanent earth throught the connection post.
* Edit to add: how did you do the timing with no spark happening? If you relied on the points visually opening then it'll probably be too far retarded now because the gap needed to break the circuit is less than you'll see by eye.
Re: Bruce the FWD
If its trying to fire than the dizzy is not lined up/ firing order out slightly if its not trying no fire as in no spark or a very weak spark either the orange and black wires on the points are earthing or tehre is some dodgry connection on the dizzy bush (thats the tech name the bakalite connection that sits on the dizzy eadge and has the LT lead going to the coil)) the bush is very prone to earthing out if it is not insulated well and looking at that pic i would say the bush is not insulated.
The earth wire frombase plate to body also look very iffy, these are basic things that you should be able to sort out!
Also you seem to be confused about of its a spark or fuel issue?
Put HT testers on the spark plus, if there is no sprk or a weak spark then its the ignition side if there is a strong spark and no firing then its fuel related.
Spraying carb cleaner straight into the carbs whilst turning over will tell you if its fuel related as well.
Did you do the hed gasket change ?
The earth wire frombase plate to body also look very iffy, these are basic things that you should be able to sort out!
Also you seem to be confused about of its a spark or fuel issue?
Put HT testers on the spark plus, if there is no sprk or a weak spark then its the ignition side if there is a strong spark and no firing then its fuel related.
Spraying carb cleaner straight into the carbs whilst turning over will tell you if its fuel related as well.
Did you do the hed gasket change ?
Re: Bruce the FWD
I dont think its a fuel issue but have been unable to get it going so thought I would post carb photos incase there was something glaringly obvious.
Re: Bruce the FWD
Paul, sorting this sort of thing is a completely methodical process. With any non-starter (unless there's an obvious problem like flat battery or out of fuel) the only way to approach it is:
(1) make sure the ignition system is right. That means a nice, clear, blue spark at the plugs and at (about) the right time. Until you have that, looking ahead to other stuff is not only wasted time but likely to create further problems. No exceptions. Something like 95% of non-start faults are ignition related according to just about every study done.
(2) Once you are certain that the spark is right, only then do you move on to fuel delivery (including tank vents, pump and pipework) and carbs.
(3) Once you are sure of the fuel system, only then do you move on to major mechanical problems like lost compression. It takes surpisingly little compression to make an engine fire up and, even with a blow between two cylinders, you can expect the other two to fire, even if it won't actually start.
It may seem long-winded and it may be tempting to jump ahead on a hunch but, unless you have a hell of a lot of experience with a particular engine, it will waste time in the long run. Guaranteed.
(1) make sure the ignition system is right. That means a nice, clear, blue spark at the plugs and at (about) the right time. Until you have that, looking ahead to other stuff is not only wasted time but likely to create further problems. No exceptions. Something like 95% of non-start faults are ignition related according to just about every study done.
(2) Once you are certain that the spark is right, only then do you move on to fuel delivery (including tank vents, pump and pipework) and carbs.
(3) Once you are sure of the fuel system, only then do you move on to major mechanical problems like lost compression. It takes surpisingly little compression to make an engine fire up and, even with a blow between two cylinders, you can expect the other two to fire, even if it won't actually start.
It may seem long-winded and it may be tempting to jump ahead on a hunch but, unless you have a hell of a lot of experience with a particular engine, it will waste time in the long run. Guaranteed.
Re: Bruce the FWD
If you do have a spark which i doubt it looking at the wiring and you have fuel going through have you checked the state of the spark plugs, are they wet or sooted up?
if you have been trying to crank over the car and there was no spark but fuel going in eventually that will bugger up the plug rendering them useless.
if you have been trying to crank over the car and there was no spark but fuel going in eventually that will bugger up the plug rendering them useless.
- mbellinger
- TDC Member
- Posts: 2403
- Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:29 pm
- Location: Bromley, Kent
Re: Bruce the FWD
Do as Joe says.
Once you are certain you have a big fat blue spark, then slacken the distributor clamp sufficiently that the distributor can be just turned. Turn the engine over whilst an assistant slowly turns the distributor body. If you have fuel coming up the car will at least catch and try to fire as the distributor moves through its arc.
Oh, and get a new diaphragm please - that one is shot. that microscopic feathering of the edge causes air leaks and tiny particles of rubber find their way into your carb jets. Not good. They are a service item on these cars as the quality of what is available now is not what it used to be. I only bought from Burlen's and I kept a spare in the glove box - ask Angie!
Once you are certain you have a big fat blue spark, then slacken the distributor clamp sufficiently that the distributor can be just turned. Turn the engine over whilst an assistant slowly turns the distributor body. If you have fuel coming up the car will at least catch and try to fire as the distributor moves through its arc.
Oh, and get a new diaphragm please - that one is shot. that microscopic feathering of the edge causes air leaks and tiny particles of rubber find their way into your carb jets. Not good. They are a service item on these cars as the quality of what is available now is not what it used to be. I only bought from Burlen's and I kept a spare in the glove box - ask Angie!
Martin.
2021 Land Rover Discovery Sport HSE PHEV
2021 Dacia Duster 1.3 TCe
1963 Austin A40 Rally Car
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2021 Land Rover Discovery Sport HSE PHEV
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1963 Austin A40 Rally Car
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- mbellinger
- TDC Member
- Posts: 2403
- Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:29 pm
- Location: Bromley, Kent
Re: Bruce the FWD
Is that a crack in your distributor cap between 1 and 3?
Martin.
2021 Land Rover Discovery Sport HSE PHEV
2021 Dacia Duster 1.3 TCe
1963 Austin A40 Rally Car
2021 Honda Cross Tourer Highlander
2021 Land Rover Discovery Sport HSE PHEV
2021 Dacia Duster 1.3 TCe
1963 Austin A40 Rally Car
2021 Honda Cross Tourer Highlander