Alternative Wheels

[Dolly-Nut]

I'm after a set of relatively cheap wheels I can use for track days as well as everyday.
They're to fit a Sprint with 3/8 studs at the front and 7/16 rear so nuts must be available.
MGF wheels would be the obvious option but from what I understand there's no nuts that can be used to fit them straight on, is there?
Are there any other alternatives? I need them to fill the arches so they don't look silly. Anything 13" would need a 70 profile (not ideal for track use) so 14 or 15" would be preferable.

[Carledo]

I bought the nuts for my F wheels on ebay, labelled as fitting MkI and early MkII Escort, these are 7/16 UNF with a large built in taper and chromed. A set of 16 was, I think, £24. I'm sure if you scout about you'll find some 3/8 ones to do the trick, though personally I'd change the front hubs so they're all 7/16!

Steve

Oh and the wheels were £60 for 4x5 spoke standard early F wheels with 3 decent tyres!

[Dolly-Nut]

Do you think there's any chance of these fitting?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271276370947? ... 1423.l2649

[Carledo]

I would say not, but what do I know? The stock F rims are 6x15 and need some "adjustment" of the rear arches to clear my 195/50 Toyos and there is very little room on the inner arch to allow you to relieve the rim centre to get it further in, the front is no bother and clears easily, even on lock.
I believe someone has got 7" rims on a dolly but I think they were 13s and needed extra arches like MX5Dollys. I think if you want to go low as well they will be a non starter. At £300 and rough condition, they're too expensive too!

Steve

[Oli_88]

Change the front studs, having snapped a pair of 3/8s ones, I've gone up to the 7/16ths ones (in a rally style length, which I regret, takes ages to get the wheels off!) Nuts can then be found very easily. Took less than an hour to do the front studs.

[xvivalve]

I have a set of 13" Rover Metro alloys that I'm about to weigh in...

[Jon Tilson]

The spoked ones or pepperpot type?

These look good on a dolly....I'd ebay them.

What rim width are they? I may be interested....


Jonners

[Jon Tilson]

Actually its nor for me but for a car I used to own.
I'll put him in touch with you....he is in South Wales....

Jonners

[Mad Mart]

Yes, change the front studs to 7/16" if you're thinking of tracking it. I had a couple snap before I changed mine.

[Dolly-Nut]

I'll be changing the front studs tomorrow.
This evening I picked up a set of 13" Revolutions on 185/60s from Jim in Bournemouth.

[Mx5 turbo dolly]

My wheels are 7x13 with a 0 offset.
I am running my car -2"
I do have arches fitted and I have cut the
Original arches up by 1.5".
I am looking for some more 7x13 or 8x13 if any one has
Any??

[naskeet]

I would say not, but what do I know? The stock F rims are 6x15 and need some "adjustment" of the rear arches to clear my 195/50 Toyos and there is very little room on the inner arch to allow you to relieve the rim centre to get it further in, the front is no bother and clears easily, even on lock.
I believe someone has got 7" rims on a dolly but I think they were 13s and needed extra arches like MX5Dollys. I think if you want to go low as well they will be a non starter. At £300 and rough condition, they're too expensive too!

Steve

When you refer to stock F rims, do you mean factory-standard MGF 6 x 15 inch wheels? There seems to be some uncertainty about the precise value of the wheels’ offset. Some sources such as Salter, quote 30~35 mm, whilst I think there are also others that quote 28 mm as the offset of MGF and/or MG Maestro & Montego wheels.

http://www.carlsalter.com/rover-wheel-fitments.html

http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/group2/su ... he_mgf.htm

In the 1972 brochure, the following Cosmic LM25 aluminium-alloy wheels are listed for the Triumph Herald, Vitesse, Spitfire, GT6, Toledo & Dolomite, requiring wheels having a PCD – pitch circle diameter with four fixing holes, of 4 x 3¾ inch (i.e. 4 x 95•25 mm); with the caveat that use of the 6 x 13 inch wheels might require bodywork modifications.

Size (inches) PCD Offset (inches) Part No.

5 x 13 4 x 3¾ inch 0•75 ??? RW044/014

5½ x 13 4 x 3¾ inch 0•875 ??? RW027/023

6 x 13 4 x 3¾ inch 1•031 ??? RW024/040

http://mk1-performance-conversions.co.u ... ls1972.pdf

At some time during November 1974 to May 1975, Mann & Egerton Ltd. (the Rover & Triumph dealership in Leigh-on-Sea, Essex) had substituted a set of five Cosmic 5½ x 13 inch alloy wheels & 175 SR13 tyres onto the 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 which my father bought in May 1975, and which I still have to this day.

I later replaced the 175 SR13 tyres with 185/70 SR13 low-profile tyres, but noticed that on the few occasions when carrying passengers in the rear seats, the rear tyres’ outboard sidewalls rubbed slightly against the rear wheel arches. When I swopped the Cosmic 5½ x 13 inch alloy wheels (21 mm offset – my measurement) for Triumph Dolomite Sprint, GKN 5½ x 13 inch alloy wheels (35 mm offset – my measurement), retaining my 185/70 SR13 tyres, there was no longer any rubbing.

What I would like to find out, is whether there would be any tyre sidewall rubbing, if I were to substitute MGF, MGTF, MG Maestro or MG Montego 6 x 15 inch wheels, fitted with 185/65 R15 tyres (same external circumference as 175 R13 tyres) instead of either 185/55 R15 or 205/50 R15 tyres. If these were suitable, where might one obtain the appropriate substitute screw-studs and wheel-nuts?

From the published proceedings, of an engineering research conference (a document I discovered during circa 1983, in the Cranfield university library) about wheels & tyres, held in the early 1980s, I learned that rolling resistance is reduced by maximising tyre external circumference and that the optimum tyre aspect ratio is circa 65%; both of which contribute to minimising fuel consumption.

The research project compared several tyres of nominally identical external rolling-circumference, having aspect ratios of 80%, 70%, 65% and 60%. A graph of rolling resistance versus aspect ratio, resulted in a J-shaped curve. Tyres with an 80% aspect ratio had the greatest rolling resistance, whilst those with either 70% or 60% aspect ratio, had comparatively reduced rolling resistances of similar magnitude, but those of 65% aspect ratio had the lowest rolling resistance of all. What effect a further reduction in aspect ratio would have on rolling resistance wasn’t explored; probably because few if any ultra-low-profile tyres (i.e. circa 20%~55%) were readily available at that time, for mass-produced, road-going cars.

According to my observations (including compensation for changes in speedometer & odometer calibration), the 175 SR13 standard-profile tyres gave about 11% better fuel economy than the 185/70 SR13 low-profile tyres. Both the 175 SR13 standard-profile tyres and 185/65 R15 low-profile tyres, have a circa 5•5% larger external circumference than the 185/70 SR13 low-profile tyres.

195/55 R16 – 1950•6 mm circumference

185/65 R15 – 1952•4 mm circumference

175 R13 => 175/83 R13 – 1949•9 mm circumference
175 R13 => 175/82 R13 – 1939•0 mm circumference
175 R13 => 175/80 R13 – 1917•0 mm circumference

185/70 R13 – 1851•0 mm circumference

155 R13 => 155/83 R13 – 1845•6 mm circumference
155 R13 => 155/82 R13 – 1835•9 mm circumference
155 R13 => 155/80 R13 – 1816•4 mm circumference

175/70 R13 – 1807•0 mm circumference

185/55 R15 – 1836•2 mm circumference

[Carledo]

Nigel, yes I do mean factory standard MGF wheels. I have the early 5 spoke rims fitted and a spare set of the later (and apparently weaker) Minilite pattern in stock. I have not measured the offset, being a pragmatic engineer at best, I used the "suck it and see" method. But I reckon the offset MUST be around 33mm, bearing in mind the wheel is 1/2" wider than the Sprint wheel where the offset (as you have correctly stated) is definitely 35mm. This is why you were getting fouling of the rear arches with the Cosmics, the offset for the small chassis cars, Herald, Spit, et al, is NOT the same as the Dolomite range, as anyone who has tried to fit Sprint rims to a Spitfire will tell you! The stock Spitfire offset is something like 19mm on a 4.5 or 5" rim. AFAIK the Maestro/Montego rims run an even bigger offset which make them suitable for the FWD Triumph range.
I very much doubt you will be able to persuade the F rims into the rear arches of your Toledo without some rubbing of the sidewall, even at standard ride height. I initially ran 205/50/15 tyres on the rear (they came with the wheels) which came into contact with the (unmodified) arches frequently, particularly during spirited cornering. At this point in time the suspension was entirely stock and pretty worn in the bush department. During it's evolution, the car gained antiroll bars at both ends, ASP Gaz shox and polybushes which stiffened, lowered and generally tightened up the ride. I also got some slightly narrower 195/50/15 tyres. All this conspired together to reduce roll and improve axle location to the point where I was only getting occaisional sidewall scrubbing at "full lean" and on very big bumps. I don't have a rear seat so heavy weights in the back is not a problem. However,I was still not satisfied with the stance and the rubbing, so, when the opportunity arose, I relieved the rear arch lips which has stopped the rubbing and allowed me to lower the rear end another 20mm making it "look" right and work better.
TBH, I have no opinion and little interest in the effect of aspect ratio on fuel economy, since I am more interested in roadholding and performance. But I can tell you that my 2 litre, fuel injected, Vauxhall powered car averages around 36mpg in its normal rural driving cycle. Contrary to popular opinion, I do NOT go everywhere flat out, but it does get "used".

Steve

[marko]

On my v8 Spitfire with 5 spoke mgf wheels I used the studs from the freelander which worked a treat. The studs are the same on the Dolomite so I guess these will work. I cannot remember what length I used though but you should be able to measure that simply enough.

[tony g]

What wheel nuts do you both use for mgf wheels? The hole is rather large for the nut

Tony