Triumph 1300s & 4WD Pony Boxes

[james_r_lucas]

Having done a forum search, I've not found out much about the Pony Boxes, so though I'd ask here.

I've managed to aquire one myself, (for the sum of £100 via facebook!), and I am looking for more info on the boxes & the rally car, if anyone can help? I'm already looking to sourcing a 2000 Mk1 rear end!

I've got a few photos to post for those who are interested...

[grifterkid]

Blimey, you've got yourself something very special there...!!!

Let's see those pictures please!

What are your plans then? Is a 4 wheel drive 1300 going to be created?!

[DoloWIGHTY]

Yes pictures would be great. A Triumph specialist had a load of them in stock and weighed them in as they needed the space, so it's great at least one survives. A recreation of the 4wd rally car and also a Toledo TS replica are both long overdue. Please keep us updated.

[cliftyhanger]

Canley classics I believe were the supplier. And nobody wanted the gearboxes, think they were offered at scrap value before he weighed them in.
I believe there is a fundamental flaw, something to do with a front/rear diff or suchlike which makes the cars scrub on corners. Not terribly handy on road, but probably OK on the loose stuff.

Well worth doing some serious research I reckon.

[james_r_lucas]

Yup, a 4WD conversion is on the cards

I'll sort those pics tonight then

And yes, I believe this one came from Canley 20+ years ago

I believe there is a fundamental flaw, something to do with a front/rear diff or suchlike which makes the cars scrub on corners. Not terribly handy on road, but probably OK on the loose stuff.

There is a 2WD/4WD selector, when in 2WD it disengages the propshaft, so becomes normal FWD. It also has a dual ratio input section, with what looks to be complete synchro hubs etc. Looking at the ratios, it provides a high range (that actually steps down the engine speed for a given road speed, getting round the tall diff issues 1300s have) and a low range (not that it's land rover style low range, I can count the teeth when I have a proper look at it, it looks less than 2:1)
In the current setup the 4WD is engaged when switching to low range on the same lever, but I intend to change that

Incidentally, does anyone know of a 2000 Mk1 being scrapped?

[grifterkid]

How many of the 'Pony' gearboxes were made...?! It is surprising that a fair number were made when this seemed to be something quite experimental...!

[DoloWIGHTY]

I believe the "Pony" 4WD utility vehicle it was intended for was put into actual production by a subsidiary in Israel, I guess these 'boxes were left over from that production run?

[james_r_lucas]

I believe the "Pony" 4WD utility vehicle it was intended for was put into actual production by a subsidiary in Israel, I guess these 'boxes were left over from that production run?

It was the Triumph Dragoon as far as I know...

Anyway, here are some piccies

Overall views of the box





Main casting is the same as the standard FWD box, just a bit ectra on the back + different diff outputs

Diff Output shaft & bearing (Different to standard FWD)




View with the high/low ratio box covers off



High/Low gear lever



Input shaft hole (As far as I know it will be a custom job to get an input shaft made)



High/Low gearing




Diff looks to be the same as standard FWD

[TrustNo1]

Glad you managed to get the box.
Nathan or Bruce should be able to tell you everything you need to know about the Ponies as he is planning on one.
Quite a few of the boxes were saved from being scrapped, he sold them for about 340 each but of course carriage and storage would have put a lot of folk off the idea.

Not a lot of info out there.

http://www.canleyclassics.com/?xhtml=xh ... roduct.xsl

http://9700vc.blogspot.co.uk/2008/10/4wd-triumph.html

http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/cars/tr ... of-israel/

[1300_2door]

Yes "technically" these are Dragoon gearboxes, afaik there was only one Pony prototype.

The diff is a different ratio to the other fwd cars in 4.88:1, the low range ratio is 1.61:1 ( no synchro )

Also you may have noticed the different diff output flanges, as the Dragoon had inboard CV's not the rotoflex couplings of the fwd cars.

Gordon

[DavePoth]

There's a bit of debate as to what gearbox the 1300 rallycross car actually had - some sources have it as a "large triumph" gearbox with an extra output shaft. Either way a 4wd 1300 is going to be a very fun thing to have.

[1300_2door]

There's a bit of debate as to what gearbox the 1300 rallycross car actually had - some sources have it as a "large triumph" gearbox with an extra output shaft. Either way a 4wd 1300 is going to be a very fun thing to have.

I don't think you'll find a "larger" Triumph gearbox than the Pony/Dragoon gearbox!

One other thing that may be a problem is finding a input shaft, as these are also different. Although I do remember someone saying that they did have one,

[DavePoth]

There's a bit of debate as to what gearbox the 1300 rallycross car actually had - some sources have it as a "large triumph" gearbox with an extra output shaft. Either way a 4wd 1300 is going to be a very fun thing to have.

I don't think you'll find a "larger" Triumph gearbox than the Pony/Dragoon gearbox!

One other thing that may be a problem is finding a input shaft, as these are also different. Although I do remember someone saying that they did have one,

I mean "Large Triumph" as in the Sprint/TR6/2500 box, as opposed to the "Small Triumph" box for, well, small Triumphs.