Tilly's Top End

[dave comer]

Tilly had developed a very noisey top end and upon inspection, revealed very worn rocker gear. A complete new set was obtained and after fitting made Tilly very quiet.
However, I was concerned about lack of oil to the rocker gear and purchased the external oil feed kit from some brothers in Lincoln. It works really well. Engine noise is right down from what it was and the top end is very oily indeed. This has got to make the rockers last longer.
The down side is that because there is much more oil up top, I am now getting the dreaded blue smoke on the over-run. Just a puff when I press the loud pedal. As is well documented, Triumph did not fit valve stem oil seals to the ohv engines and because of the extra oil flow, the oil is being sucked down the valve guides. After having a root about, I find that our Goose feather pen making friends from Woolwich supply stem seals to counter-act the condition. Not wishing to line their pockets, I had a go on the computer thingy and came across an article that said the stem seals from a Ford Pinto engine would fit. I have no way of confirming the veracity of this and would welcome any advice or wisdom from anyone that has come across this before.
I am not taking the head off to fit the seals. A vavle spring remover is on its way via ebay. Really old fashioned but nos still in it's box. Sold to that man with the Toledo for £10. All I need now is some decent cord to bung down the cylinders to stop the valves dropping and I'm good to go.
The stem seals that I'm looking at are less than £3 for the lot including free postage which a darned sight cheaper than Quillers offerings of £2.50 each plus carriage.

[soe8m]

Remove to external oil feed. The oil what is now too much in Tilly's top end is supposed to lubricate Tilly's bottom end. And that is now much less.

Jeroen

[dave comer]

Thanks for that, Jeroen. I was under the impression that it was okay for the external oil feed on a 1300 but not on a 1500 due to the marginal oil supply to the big ends and mains on the 1500.
The supply to the rockers is not very good without the external feed and I am concerned that it would ruin another set of rocker gear but I suppose that is better that buggering the bearings. Still waiting to get a concensus of opinion either way.

[Jon Tilson]

i have a 1500 spit that has now done 130k miles with NO rocker feed.

You dont need one...just regular and decent oil changes. It only goes wrong cos oil ways sludge up due to bad maintenance.

Do what Jeroen says and sell the external feed kit on ebay - no better still throw it away or use it somewhere useful like housheold plumbing maybe?

Jonners

[dave comer]

OK. Over a hundred people have read this thread and only two have proffered advice or wisdom. So, I'm going with what Jonners and Jeroen have advised. The oil feed is coming off but will still be kept for it's ornamental value in my shed. After a bit of thought I have come to the conclusion that the lack of oil to the top end was probably due to the crud on the old rocker gear which was preventing lubrication of the rockers towards the front of the engine.
Tilly has had two oil changes in the last 4000 miles using Halfords Classic 20/50 and it will be changed again soon. She has done less than 40,000miles (allegedly) and if this is true,she has been sadly neglected and abused before she came into my care.
Due to the aforemetioned neglect, there is very slight play in the valve guides and I am still considering fitting valve stem seals to prevent oil loss and help with the carburation. Any thoughts on this?

[Triumph1300]

Ditch the pipe, KAC has been mercilessly thrashed for many miles without one.

[sprint95m]

Tilly has had two oil changes in the last 4000 miles using Halfords Classic 20/50 and it will be changed again soon.

Is that the green coloured oil?
That could well be the problem with oil consumption.

Comma (who make the Halfords classic oil) do a better alternative which is brown in colour but is supplied in a green container, Comma Premium 20-50.

If it was me, I'd try that before taking the engine separate....



Ian.

[stokieat75]

I too have fitted a external feed kit to my 1500 and found that it used more oil than before, also I have a oil pressure gauge fitted and have found that before I fitted the oil feed pipe the oil pressure was better by 10-20 psi so I suppose if you have marginal oil pressure due to wear/age etc then that could make a difference.

I fitted oil seals to the guides on my cyl head when I had the cyl head removed for refurbishment work, and I did notice that due to the double valve springs fitted they were a tight fit over the seal and I did wonder if they would damage the seal in time. Even with new guides, valves and seals it still uses a little more oil than before so I will remove the external feed pipe to see if the oil consumption stops or even slows at all, at the moment roughly it uses about 1/2 pint in 350 miles but I don't know if that is good or bad as I don't know what the manufacturer specified when new, also as the guides and valves were badly worn originally and it used oil before the work was done last September I have no real guide to oil consumption until now, although the car has only done 500 miles since the head work and at the same time I fitted the oil pipe kit. After I have removed the pipe I will monitor the oil usage to see what the difference is, so yes I would be inclined to agree with the others about removing the pipe.

[cliftyhanger]

The external feed can be made to work, but not just by bolting it on. The normal oil feed through the head needs blocking (remove the head, grubscrew the gallery in head and block) and then reduce the external feed size down with a restrictor. 2mm or something similar, details are out in the ether somewhere.

All this means you get a better feed to the rockers without the oversupply issues. And also stops that annoying oil weep at the corner of the head gasket.

Worth doing?
I can think of many many other things that are more worthwhile.

And changing the oil every 2k? Unless that is an annual mileage I would be using a better oil and changing every 6k. Plenty of good oils for not a lot extra. Vr1 is good, but since I bought some millers CSS 20 60 at under £20 a tub, I am using that ( better oil pressure when hot than vr1, but I would happily use vr1)

[Jon Tilson]

What? The oil feed robs 10-20 psi? That seems like a lot. But 5 would be too much....

Get rid of the useless oil feed. If you engine is doing 700 to the pint then its reasonable.

Much more the 500 and you will start getting Mot pass visible smoke issues.


Jonners

[Toledo Man]

Changing the oil regularly is the best way to prevent the problem. One oil I would recommend is the Millers Classic 20w50 but any decent brand should be suitable. You should by paying £20 upwards for such an oil. The oil feed kit definitiely needs to go.

[soe8m]

The external feed can be made to work, but not just by bolting it on. The normal oil feed through the head needs blocking (remove the head, grubscrew the gallery in head and block) and then reduce the external feed size down with a restrictor. 2mm or something similar, details are out in the ether somewhere.

All this means you get a better feed to the rockers without the oversupply issues. And also stops that annoying oil weep at the corner of the head gasket.

That is also not ok and why should you. Every Triumph, also the slants have a pulsated oil feed to the head. That means in a cyclus: No oil, oil, no oil, oil etc. The no oil part does mean all oil to the bottom. The oil means a bit of oil to to the head. Normally that would be enough. At crancking the flow to the head is already "constant" and when running it's sufficient. Most of the time the problem is a clogged rocker shaft.

Jeroen

[dave comer]

The external feed can be made to work, but not just by bolting it on. The normal oil feed through the head needs blocking (remove the head, grubscrew the gallery in head and block) and then reduce the external feed size down with a restrictor. 2mm or something similar, details are out in the ether somewhere.

All this means you get a better feed to the rockers without the oversupply issues. And also stops that annoying oil weep at the corner of the head gasket.

Worth doing?
I can think of many many other things that are more worthwhile.

And changing the oil every 2k? Unless that is an annual mileage I would be using a better oil and changing every 6k. Plenty of good oils for not a lot extra. Vr1 is good, but since I bought some millers CSS 20 60 at under £20 a tub, I am using that ( better oil pressure when hot than vr1, but I would happily use vr1)

Yes that is Tilly's annual milage. She was purchased in June 2011 from ebay. Incidently, she was subject to a lot of discussion on these very forums of which I was not aware of until recently. Mileage on purchase 36,000 now 39,900.