Improving brakes on Dolomite 1850

[tractor boy]

Hi its tractor boy again! The brakes on my 1850hl have never been great {i dont expect them to be as good as todays brakes} The pads are ok but the front discs dont look too good despite being used regularly the y never seem to be bright and always look dull anda bit dark. I am able to skim them in my lathe but they look to be too well worn. I need to replace them any suggestions what to use. I would just like better brakes not particularly up to rally/competition standard. Look forward to help. Thanks tractor boy

[Toledo Man]

The standard brakes will be sufficient for normal road use so just make sure they're in tip top condition. I fitted reconditioned calipers to mine about a year ago and I resealed the brake master cylinder not long before and the brakes are fine. If you want to upgrade them you can fit the "trackerjack" conversion which uses VW Golf vented discs (machined to fit the hubs) and Ford Sierra calipers. Steel wheels will fit but they foul Sprint alloys.

[Edin Dundee]

The standard brakes will be sufficient for normal road use so just make sure they're in tip top condition.......

Tosh.
Absolute tosh.
I'm usually careful, but occasionally things catch you out - and then you realise the brakes are crap.
If the bog standard car in front can stop MUCH quicker than you, the brakes are crap.
Just my tuppenceworth from years of driving in hundreds of cars, as opposed to spouting forth on a forum.

Dave, how many miles have you driven in a Dolly in the last 2 years? Exactly?

[Toledo Man]

Oh dear, I've been comprehensively shot down in flames. I know the Sprint brakes were barely good enough for road use so the 1850 won't be much better.

Point taken...

[dailysprinter]

There is no way to get better brakes without modification. The Tracker Jack conversion is the best safety mod you can do, I've run it for years on the roads it is superb.

[soe8m]

I did try a lot of different pads on a dolomite and think the std mintex ones are the best and give a reasonable stopping power. NOS pads are most of the time hardened and were good in their day but 25 years later not. The cheap nameless pads in white boxes you have to avoid also. It does help to have good brakeshoes also. They are forgotten all the time but can improve the total stopping power.

Jeroen

[Carledo]

Another vote here for Trackerjack conversion. Its a sad fact that ALL Dolomites from the humble 1300 to the mighty Sprint (with over double the horsepower of the base model) used the SAME front discs and calipers. What is just about good enough for 61bhp worth of 1300 is really not up to snuff for the bigger engined and more powerful cars, especially in todays driving conditions and with almost every other car on the road having bigger and more powerful brakes (and ABS)
A Trackerjack kit is like a microwave oven, before you get one you think "why do I need this? I've managed without one all these years!" and when you've got one you think "How did I ever manage without it all these years? Its THAT good!

Steve

Oh and Dave, sorry to add insult to burn damage but TJs WILL fit under Sprint alloys, it was one of the defining features of the design! Tolerances are tight however and on some cars, a little judicious grinding is needed on the caliper.

[Edin Dundee]

Most of my 'moments' have not been due to the power of the car, but due to modern cars in front and busy roads. (and of course my poor driving).
So as Carledo alluded to, it matters not if your car is a Sprint or a 1300, they need roughly the same stopping at town speeds. So the modern or not-so-modern in front has decided to stop unexpectedly, if you haven't been paying attention and keeping a very safe distance.......

[Jon Tilson]

Sorry but for once I agree with Dave...

Dolomite brakes in good condition with the right pads are more than adequate for road use.
You can tell this is true because you can lock the front wheels on a dry road if you press too hard.
The engineers set them up so that an 80lb pedal push or thereabouts would achieve the theoretical 1g
emergency stop.

1300's and 1500's have a less powerful servo because of the lighter engine. The Sprint has harder pads because
it needed greater fade resistance to stop from higher speeds.

Dolomite brakes stand comparison with any contemporary. If they had not they would have been panned for it in Autocar road tests which had a whole section of stopping figures and pedal efforts.

You are now comparing dolomites with modern cars which all have ABS as standard. Pedal efforts are all set up far lower as the ABS prevents the wheels from locking prematurely. Without ABS pedal efforts are set that bit higher to prevent premature locking.

If you want to track your Sprint or you want your brakes to bite harder for less pedal effort then by all means go down the upgrade route. We also live in times when the OE fit Sprint pads are harder to come by. In fact OE quality pads for all dolomites are harder to come by, but you can make up your own mind about how this distorts the argument. Sprint brakes with common modern pads will fade in track use. They will also fade 4 up down an Alpine or Scottish mountain decent. But the downside is if you do go down the TJ upgrade route you won't have ABS to stop you locking up on a damp road, so do be aware of this when you make the decision to spend the money. I'm still quite happy with my old fashioned brakes for road use and there is no reason why you can't be too. I dont see a lot of advantage in sliding into the car in front on a damp road with locked wheels...

Jonners

[Ictoan]

IF you dont wish to fit the trackerjack kit (which I am sure is the best option) then try changing the pads to Mintex 1144. They are a competition pad but work well from cold. I have them fitted after being scared to death that I would run into the back of domething at a junction or roundabout and have to say that I now have some confidence I can stop in time. From memory the part no is something like mgb1144.

Just realised Jon posted while I was writing. I am happy with the improvement from the 1144 pads for standard, fast road use and Classic Rally type tests.

Just checked, part no. is MGB535M1144 and I got mine last year from Camskill. Think they had to order them up from Mintex.

[captain_70s]

I agree with Jon on this one. My Dolomite's stopping power has always felt dreadful compared to a modern car until I looked at it the situation closer and realised the biggest difference was the amount of pressure I had to put on the pedal to get the car to actually slow down. In my few years and over 18,000 miles of driving Dolomites I found my biggest problem was locking the wheels under harsh braking due to the lack of ABS and skinny 155/80 tyres. If your brakes are good enough to lock the wheels then surely they are as good as is of use until you improve the levels of grip by fitting bigger/better wheels/tyres?

Since I've started using Dolomites every day and sold the modern car I've simply learned to brake much, much earlier and leave huge gaps between me and traffic in front. When I touch the brakes in a modern car now-a-days I damn near put myself through the windscreen!

[xvivalve]

The other important item to check that most folk overlook is the thickness of the discs. Running around on wafer thin 35+ year old original brake discs and then complaining about fade under heavy braking is hardly a surprise.

[Carledo]

Dolomite brakes stand comparison with any contemporary. If they had not they would have been panned for it in Autocar road tests which had a whole section of stopping figures and pedal efforts.

You are now comparing dolomites with modern cars which all have ABS as standard. Pedal efforts are all set up far lower as the ABS prevents the wheels from locking prematurely. Without ABS pedal efforts are set that bit higher to prevent premature locking.
I'm still quite happy with my old fashioned brakes for road use and there is no reason why you can't be too. I dont see a lot of advantage in sliding into the car in front on a damp road with locked wheels...

Jonners

I know we are not going to agree on this Jonners, but here's my point, Dolomite brakes stand comparison with any CONTEMPORARY car!
But we are not on the road with CONTEMPORARY cars! We are sharing space with modern cars with 15,16 or even 17" wheels and dustbin lid sized vented discs, it's no wonder our skinny old milk bottle tops can't keep up.
I agree that lockup is not a desireable feature on a braking system, and that more mechanical grip is needed but even a change from 155/80/13 tyres to 175/70s is a rewarding and not too expensive mod and still keeps the car looking stock, if such is your wish.
Without changing wheel diameter, the TJ kit is quite literally as far as you can go with improvements in this area and its NOT too much.
YOU may be happy with your old fashioned brakes but I (and I believe quite a few others) am not! I prefer not to live in constant fear of the idiot in front!
And finally, have you ever actually driven a TJ equipped car? If you had, i'm quite sure we wouldn't be having this discussion!

Steve

[Jon Tilson]

So true Alun...

And a lot of dolomites run around on half seized front calipers, which will pass the Mot roller test but
are in no way representative of how dolly brakes should be....

Same applies to disfunctional servos and non self adjusting rear brakes.

Jonners

[mahony]

I have yet still to fit my Tj brake upgrade and have not driven a car equipped with the upgrade so I'm unable to make comparisons with the standard set up yet, but after 30yrs of owning a sprint I'm convinced that a standard sprint set up is underbraked , we have had this discussion many times on here and there are many different opinions, if you take most fords from the same period they would not have the same size discs for a 1300cc to a 2000cc engines ( and the bigger servo on a sprint was a attempt to cover up the underbraking in my opinion ), I have the sprint in print and reading those early road tests most of the testers comment on the brakes either fading on long runs or just not being up to the job and that was on brand new cars