MG Midget Frontline K Series Conversion...

[James467]

Yep thats right folks, if you haven't been reading my restoration thread you won't know that after about 10 years or so I managed to buy back my first restoration, a 1977 Midget 1500.

I was a happy man, until I realised that the previous owner hadn't looked after it. The suspension needed an overhaul and the brakes were basically shot. I was quite annoyed given the time and effort I had invested in it. On the up side the gearbox is newly reconditioned!

I decided to de-bumper it and overhaul the suspension first and over the past few months I have been thinking about what to do with it. It's not a special car, not like NWL, it's a Midget 1500 which isn't wonderful as it is, lots of owners, unknown history. The shells are great because they are stronger and more rigid than the RWA cars and mine is rock solid. All the work I did is still in tip top condition. The engine is a good strong unit with only a few thousand miles on it since rebuild and should produce about 90hp as it sits, but that's probably all I'm going to get from it reliably. It's a heavy unit and mated to the standard 4 speed box its quite thrashy in modern traffic. I think my driving style is suited to a higher revving engine so I have decided to do a K Series conversion with a type 9 5 speed gearbox, having had a lot of involvement with Caterham's I'm familiar with this setup.

Suspension wise we are all sorted, I have overhauled the rear, stuck with standard springs, lowering blocks and a Frontline panhard rod, this coupled with Peter May front springs, a 11/16" anti roll bar (remember the K Series is lighter than the 1500) and polybushes all round should give a nice handling car. I may put on slightly bigger Spitfire front brakes but the engine is lighter and I never had an issue with them anyway so I will probably just fit good pads and a servo kit. I just need to replace the front pivots that were mangled when I had to cut off the old seized units.

I will fit a full Safety Devices roll cage though especially as the kids will be regular visitors to the passenger seat!

So I'm now on the hunt for a donor car and I'll have the Carbs, engine and gearbox to sell as well. Then I just need the bellhousing and engine mounts (available from Caterham or Frontline) a gearbox from Burton and a new prop made.

This should be an easy conversion.

Famous last words!!

Photos to follow.

[James467]

Donor car sourced!

And here she is, back home in all of her 2001 Rover 45 Impression S glory. Everything works, even the AC and and the heated leather seats, steering's a bit vague but I'd almost say she's too good to scrap. Sorry, before you ask the seats are already sold!



I'm only interested in this though. It's a 18K4F 1.8 K Series, more importantly, it's a late K series that has MEMS 3 engine management with twin coils and sequential injection. This is whats going into the MG. It is as dry as a bone and has never overheated or had any head gasket issues, it runs really well. I gave it some abuse on the drive back and the temperature needle refused to budge.



Had a chat with Frontline and I'm on the waiting list for a bellhousing. That will give me time to sell some of the old bit's that I dont need and get the engine and anything else I need out of the 45 and get her sent off to the scrappers and to source a Ford 2.8 long shaft gearbox.

Once I have that lot plus the Frontline kit it should be a simple bolt together job with minimal bodywork modifications (just the heater tray and cutting the front chassis a bit) so I'm hoping it will be back on the road by the end of the summer.

[sprint95m]

Reference the gearbox,
as well a the V6 petrol Sierras, Capris, etc
that long input 'box was used in the Sierra 1800 turbo diesel.


The first gear is low (from memory it is 3.6:1) so if you are having the gearbox rebuilt it may be worth considering
the "close ratio" spacing which has a slightly higher first gear?
I am sure that there will be advice available on that matter from the Caterham owners..


If you have the time, whilst not strictly relevant as it is Zetec powered, here is a brilliant story.......
http://sideways-technologies.co.uk/foru ... errington/




Ian.

[James467]

Thanks Ian, the only problem with the P100 and diesel type 9 is that you have a low first (3.9:1) then a huge gap to second (2.2:1) great for doughnuts but I don't think it'll work in real world traffic! They are pretty rare as well, plus apparently the 2.8 box can handle more power as standard.

The Caterham owners want too much for their gearboxes, they are alloy cased though so I can understand. It would be cheaper for me to just buy one outright from Burton which I may end up doing. I wanted to use their bellhousing but I checked the dimensions and it won't fit, I have to cut some of it off to fit the transmission tunnel even then it's tight! Also, they don't make them anymore and it costs the same as a Frontline one anyway. Something I am after though is a Caterham inlet manifold so that the intake points the right way! If I can't get one I'll just have to live with it until I get bored of the power and fit throttle bodies with a custom ECU! Strangely enough I have found that there aren't that many parts that can easily be carried across plus Caterham don't really do K series parts anymore which is why everyone I know is swapping to the Duratec or Sigma engines.

Thanks for the link, the good thing about the K is that if I stick to using off the shelf parts from Frontline they told me that I can legitimately call it a 'Frontline K Series Midget' which raises the value and makes it more desireable if I ever want to sell it.

I have decided to upgrade the brakes and because I now have a 1.8 now instead of the 1.4 I was looking at, I will have to put on a LSD and uprated half shafts otherwise I'll just snap them. I'll probably put on double bearings as well plus anti tramp bars at the same time.

I just want to get the engine in and running first.

Just need to be a bit careful with the DVLA though, don't want to end up with a Q plate!

[Jon Tilson]

Can you gate a bell housing to work with the midget box? If so why not consider that with a dolly 1850 ratio set and overdrive?
Some midgets have the spit box with o/d and I know Canley Classics do an input shaft to suite the dolly1850/vitesse/gt6 gear set.

The 1.8 k might be a bit much for it though, even in a midget.

Jonners

[James467]

If it was a single rail box then yes, I probably could have one made but it would probably cost the same (around £350) and I'll be putting around 170-180 through it once I've worked on it and changed to throttle bodies so I'd probably blow it to pieces!

I think the Ford box is the way to go, it's a tried and tested conversion and you can get good quality parts for them.

Once I have finished I will rolling road it, to to disappoint myself, set a benchmark and then probably want more power!

My wife's only stipulation is that I fit a full roll cage.

Here's a nice article
http://www.sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/t ... kingk.html

[sprint95m]

That is an informative article.

Sounds familiar, they engines give good service if properly set up and looked after.....






Ian.

[James467]

Thanks Ian, it's update time!!

Please excuse the photos, I know, they aren't up to my usual standard. My camera battery has run out and I need to get a new phone after my son decided my old one needed to be flushed down the loo!

I finally have the V5 for the Rover for the DVLA, this now means that I can 'transfer' the engine over to the MG. I have spoken to a really nice welsh woman (I love women with welsh accents!) and all I need to do is amend the MG's V5 and send a copy of the Rover's V5 with a covering letter and it will be updated. I need the Rovers as once I have everything it will be scrapped.

The engine is out of the Rover. I have to say this must be the best built Rover that came out of Longbridge! It came apart like a dream!!



This is what you are going to need from your donor car:

Engine
Alternator
Engine loom,
Cooling temp sensor,
Crank sensor,
Air temp sensor, haven't found that yet!
I am retaining the Rover ECU for now so I need the ECU, immobiliser and crank sensor from the same engine as they are a paired unit. I have a post 2001 engine, the ECU is different from the early ones running a wasted spark rather than the dizzy, in my opinion this is the one to go for.
With regard to the loom I have decided just to remove everything, so remember the ring around the ignition switch and they remote fob and keys.

It depends on your bellhousing but as I am using the Frontline one I will need to get a 1.4-1.6 flywheel which is slightly smaller than the 1.8, not a bad thing as it will have the same sort of effect as lightning the 1.8 flywheel.

Your donor car will end up looking like this!



After a bit of sourcing and phoning around numerous scrap yards (find someone who banger races fords, they'll know someone who has a 2.8 type 9. Banger racers want the 2.0 type 9 due to the gearing. If you're lucky like me you'll find one who had one 'mis sold' to him!) I have an XR4, apparently recently refurbished Ford Type 9 long shaft gearbox in a beautiful shade of white!



I took the top off and the fluid is nice and fresh, it looks good, not filthy. However, it will still be stripped and the seals and bearings replaced.

A word on tail shafts. I believe if you put one of these in a dolly then the lever sits too far back. You can 'cut and shut' the tail housing to move the gear leaver. I won't go into this because I had a sit in the MG and for me the lever will now sit in the perfect position.

All I am waiting for now is the bellhousing, engine mounts, gearbox mounts, water rail and starter to arrive from Frontline so I can get everything mounted and mocked up. This may take a while as I'm on the waiting list for the bellhousing!

[MalcGE]

Might be interested in those alloys with wheel nuts if the remnants of your dismantle are still with you

[James467]

I'm afraid she went yesterday!

[geeksteve]

Just out of interest, did you have any trouble scrapping a car without the engine?

S

[James467]

Nope, not at all, I even threw in some scrap springs, the old Midget bumpers and a tyre!

I have my completed section 9 from the V5 and will get a certificate of destruction through the post. I've used these guys before and they are a well run legit scrap dealer, I did phone to check first and they said that as long as it rolls they'll collect it for free.

I didn't get anything for it though, only if I take it there which I couldn't be bothered to do!

I've written to the DVLA to get the engine number and cc changed, as soon as I know I'll post about it. They said that they may need an inspection report from the insurance company, I have sent a copy of the V5 and receipt for the car so we'll see what they say.

[geeksteve]

Cool, good to know. I have a rolling MX-5 shell I need to dispose of. Some people have said it may cost me to get rid of it. I'll make sure to ask around if they say no. Good luck with the project, I know engine swaps can be a little troublesome.

Steve

[James467]

This morning I received the V5 for the MG from the DVLA unchanged with a letter requesting some more information.

What they are asking for is a receipt for the purchase of engine from a garage or...
an inspection report for insurance purposes or....
a written confirmation from the engine manufacturer confirming engine size.

I was expecting this to be honest, I'll just have to get an inspection report from the insurance company.

Part of me is a bit perplexed considering I sent them a copy of the Rover's V5 in my name so I would have thought that this was enough. Apparently all they are concerned about is that the engine hasn't been stolen and not about me heavily modifying the car.

I'm confident that can get around this but it does mean that I can crack on as soon as the new bellhousing arrives which should be early June so there's no point trying to argue with the DVLA and get annoyed with them.