lower bush on steering column v. Haynes Manual?

[toryroger]

I know this topic keeps coming up, but.......
We failed the MOT on "worn steering rack". Took it out (including undoing the engine mounts to prise the engine up an inch or two) - fair enough, the rack was loose and floppy in places and almost jamming in others. The first exchange I got was very stiff, so sent that back, but the second is smooth and even. Put it back in car with nice new bushes under the U bolt clamps.
But at some point in loosening the intermediate shaft to get enough movement, the cursed lower bush came out. I can only assume that a previous owner had just pushed it in from the engine compartment - I cannot imagine pulling it through the bulkhead mounting plate. Anyhow it was a bit perished, so I got a nice new one. Then looked in Haynes!
The book shows this bush inside the plate - ok so I wrestled that off (loads of waterproof junk everywhere), then inserted the bush in the plate...and here we go...I THINK HAYNES SHOWS THE BUSH UPSIDE DOWN. The way it looks it will not seat. I have assembled it my way (apologies to Ol Blue Eyes); all seems smooth and snug; MOT next Monday
Any comments from members, supportive or otherwise please?
Thanks
toryroger

[Galileo]

It's almost a 50/50 split on if the 'big' bit is engine side, or passenger compartment side with compelling arguments for both. So feel free to take your pick on which way you want to put the bush in, but just one thing, make sure it's a poly bush, then you can fit and forget which way around it goes!

[Carledo]

Your old one must have been fitted by Mad Mart - he always puts them in that way, something to do with the shop manual!
Sensible people fit it from inside the car so it can't fall out even if worn a bit. (Dives for cover )

Steve

[soe8m]

Depends on what car you have. It seems that the export dolomites and tr7s got more attention during assembly. All the lhd cars had these bushes fitted the right way. From the engine side. But for the british home market they aparently did not bother how it was fitted. But lucky for you it is an easy modification to have it fitted the right way also when it was fitted the wrong way.

Jeroen

[Tamworthbay]

I spent a lot of time recently looking into this after getting conflicting advice. From what I can find most sources show it from the inside of the car so that is what I went with. It was more work but I decided after looking at all the info that it was the best option.

[soe8m]

Another nice example how wrong info on a forum does make people believe an act to it. It's all in the factory parts manuals and workshop manuals, both dolomite and tr7 how it's supposed to be. I did never see one fitted from the inside so why would a mechanic replace it in the past from the engine side when it's easier from the inside. I'm not saying is doesn't work the wrong way but the factory fitment was from the engine side. But for the lazy mechanics it's easier to fit it from the inside and if you like you can.

Take care what you post about delicate issues like suspension and brakes etc when your are not sure what you are writing about because someone else might take it as a repair guide.......

Jeroen

[Jon Tilson]

Jeroen is not often wrong, but in this case he clearly is.....

The column has a flat washer just above the splined end which clearly bears on the larger flat side of the bush, holding it down on the mounting plate. If its fitted from the engine side, said washer would and does push the coned end of the bush out of the car.

Clearly a typo in the parts books and whatever other manuals, and the good old belgians in the lhd assembly plant followed it to the letter on all lhd cars and so they are all made wrong....

Early Brit cars like ERO and countless others were all made big fat flat side of bush inside the car....

So if there is an engineering argument for it being the other way - lets hear it. There isn't one.....other than lazy mechanics convenience to save them grovelling in the footwell....

Dont knock the sealing gunge dude....it saves you a rusty floorpan.

Jonners

[sprint95m]

Early Brit cars like ERO and countless others were all made big fat flat side of bush inside the car....

So if there is an engineering argument for it being the other way - lets hear it. There isn't one.....other than lazy mechanics convenience to save them grovelling in the footwell....

I have an early car.
The bush was as per the workshop manual and parts book. When I fitted a Superflex replacement I did so the same way.

I reckon it would be easier to fit the bush from the inside because access is better, since you don't have to be stretching over the front wing.




Ian.

[soe8m]

It's maybe of no use but i have a 35.000mile RHD dolomite what had it's original bush remains fitted the way i did descibe before. This can also prove there were a few non lazy mechanics in the UK or a very rare one that did replace the bush at his own view.

Now for jonners, never did one pop out. What would be the engineering theory of the washer pushing to the bush as it's only a radial bearing.

Jeroen

[Carledo]

It's maybe of no use but i have a 35.000mile RHD dolomite what had it's original bush remains fitted the way i did descibe before. This can also prove there were a few non lazy mechanics in the UK or a very rare one that did replace the bush at his own view.

Now for jonners, never did one pop out. What would be the engineering theory of the washer pushing to the bush as it's only a radial bearing.

Jeroen

But what is the point of that metal washer on the column, if NOT to hold the bush in place? I have seen bushes just lying on the column UJ from having been put in from below and fallen out (or been pushed by the washer) This is not the only example of Manual fallibility and, by a long stick, not the only example of parts book falliblity. I prefer to trust common sense (this weeks oxymoron), engineering principal and experience.

Steve

[Karlos]

I don't see how fitting it either way on the production line would be less or more difficult. Possibly the procedures on the line changed.

Maybe they fitted the column then the bush: engine side fitment.

Maybe they then changed to fit the bush first then then column: cabin side fitment.

I will be fitting and forgetting my own SuperFlex bush this weekend. They're well worth the extra money...

[Mad Mart]

For those of you who have never seen the bush fitted correctly...

[soe8m]

This must be the most useless discussion ever but Steve and Jonners are hard to convince but here we go again. You are determining the position of the bush by your own logic sense vision and you may but it is not how it was fitted by the factory.

Maybe you can both try to answer this questions or motivate your agree or disagreement.

1. Why would someone bother fitting it from the engine side when it was fitted from the inside? I did never see one fitted from the inside. All the Dollies here were UK made so they were fitted this way by the factory and replaced this way in by the mechanics over time.

2. I have a UK RHD import dolomite with 35.000 mile, first original paint, all original and i did replace the original factory bush what was fitted from the engine side.

3. I did drive in various dolomites over the time about 400.000 km in total in all conditions. Daily drive and the rallies trough sand roads. Never ever did one pop out. They cannot pop out when fitted and the column shaft is through. Try to push one out you won't manage. The ones who where lying on the uj weren't fitted properly. These were not lazy mechanics because they tried to fit it the right way but were careless mechanics. The welded ring is not for stopping the bush popping out.

4. The welded ring is not touching the bush. There is no stress on the bush axial because the lower column shaft is connected to the uj. When adjusting the column or pushing very hard on the steeringwheel ( don't exactly know how you are driving ) you only push via the u/j on the steeringrack. If there would be any axial stress possible on the bush then it is from the engine side into the car. As a rwd car the body pushes over the subframe while driving, accelerating and braking even more. The body does want to go over the subframe so the steering rack is pushed towards the column. Your upper uj can tough the bush if you flexi joint is solid enough or replaced by an uj.

My conclusion is there are 1300, dolomite and tr7 parts and service manuals in different published years and they have on all drawings in all books the bush from the engine side. As the Dutch and some English mechanics are not so stupid to take the effort of replacing a bush what was supposed to be fitted from the inside by the factory and then crawl under car trying to see what happens and fitting from the engine side this is also a valid point of it being from the engine side the first place.

My fleet contains fwd's toledo and dolomites and i did take apart many dolomites for spares, ( my second name is Alun ) so can aslo confirm it is not some factory modification or something that was different in late or early cars also.

The years of dolomite expierience of you both and your engineering or common sense theories about the welded ring do not convince me. If the ring theory is your only point then you are both wrong. When you both are very afraid of the bush being pushed out by some axial forces you should try fitting it the right way.

Jeroen

[tamtrucks]

when i got my dolly1300 all those years ago(3) of rob grainger he supplied me with the car,when i removed the old one fat bit was inside the car,,so mine was fitted cabin outwards and my dolly was layed up in a garage(s) for 21years(4 yrs rob and 17ish by previous owner) think it goes on whether the bl line was bothered to do correct way or either,,hence very very good reputation

[Galileo]

Well, Triumph still being on piece work, someone probably went down to the assembly line and said 'You're all fitting it the wrong way!', then suddenly thought of the dispute over who was going to tighten the two dashboard screws on the Triumph 2000 and the cost to get the change agreed with the unions and walked away with his hands in his pockets whistling...

Perhaps we could get an addendum to the forum rules? No religion, politics or steering column bush discussions?!